Albert Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 No all I see is an obsessive compulsive twat replying to rockford and polluting the thread with playground nonsense. At least go find some games or something half useful or go and chew on some garlic mate *yawnnnnnnnnnnnn* You just lost your posting privileges for a week. Anyone else? ..Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.atarimania.com Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Wow look at this amazing game from 1983...the peak of A8 technical programming apparently Such amazing graphics haha I can see the superiority all those colours on the title page wow just wow!! I'm not sure we have that exact shade of orange to even attempt a C64 conversion LOL Don't be jealous, the Commodore 64 got some from the same guys as well -- Atari Frog http://www.atarimania.com 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potatohead Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 (edited) Those are like COMPUTE! magazine "type it in" games! Edited October 9, 2009 by potatohead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Seeing the pictures, I get a little sad, Seeing today the contestants of the ABBUC Software contest, is a jump into the 70.... So I won't vote for any of them. Bad luck for the coder of Crownland. Putting this year the game into then contest, would result in a clear winner.... I have no further words... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allas Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Let's face it, Operation Wolf NEEDS all 16 colours available on screen AND the hardware sprites. Let's face it the A8 couldn't do the same version because you either waste all your rubbish PMgraphics making extra colours on CPU intensive screen updates OR you have rubbish colours to keep the PM graphics free to even try and replicate the superior C64 sprites. It's the opposite of RoF...wrong hardware under the hood...tough $hit...live with it don't shoot the messenger How many of us 'c64 fanboys' made up bullshit when Rescue on Fractalus was posted and mentioned by me on numerous times as a classic example of a game using the host hardware on A8 that isn't implemented the same way on a C64. Are A8 trolls so desperate they can't see the facts? hmmmm guess so C64 programmers need at least 3 years of intensive programming on Atari machines to say an opinion about what type of game would be better on C64 or Atari. Just Operation Wolf is an good example how Atari can do with more than 32 colors on screen. It's a pity nobody try on the past, maybe because there are some clones there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STE'86 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 (edited) Incidentally, the first game I encountered that used sprites in the border was Terra Cresta in '86. I wonder if there were any before that... Terra Cresta was the one that springs to mind with me too as the first pro commercial game i saw with the borders off. we were used to that by then ofc on the cnet circuit. but it was quite a buzz none the less the see "real" programmers following the demo lead. TC was programmed by Dave Collier, who was one of the the more technically proficient and innovative of the commercial programmers around at the time. he was responsible for many of the imagine's best arcade conversions. his stuff used to get bought by us as it came out, just to see what he did new in whatever game it was. Steve Edited October 9, 2009 by STE'86 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Drop zone for the A8, excellent. Here is what the author had to say about the A8 vs C64 JH: 'What was your favorite part of Dropzone, on a technical level?' AM: 'Squeezing the hardware in the Atari 800 to its limits and making it better than anything else then available. What was more amazing to me was the challenge of making it work on the less capable Commodore 64. It was a real nightmare implementation, but I did it.' To be fair, Archer wasn't exactly the sharpest pencil in the case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SpiceWare Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I think Paperboy was the first game I saw sprites in the border. It came out in 86 as well. Per this Lemon64 thread, the first demo of it was by Radwar in October of 85. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 (edited) Don't be jealous, the Commodore 64 got some from the same guys as well I still find much amusement in the fact that the absolute worst picture you choose to show there, still can't be done on an A8 without DLI and Player colouring arsery to make it work Edited October 9, 2009 by andym00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 (edited) Here is another C64 lovely just as I remember most c64 games from that time period. C64 looks bad again! I think Atari 2600 could do much better Well, I am an Atarian - but this C64 Kick Off version from 1983 at least shows a complete table football with all players !! There is an A8 version of table football by Rino Marketing years later (1987) having a) less colours and b) showing/using less players...ouch !! And the gameplay of the A8 version is awful... the game would have been okay for a PD/Freeware version, but as a commercial release its just awful. http://www.atarimania.com/8bit/screens/table_football_2.gif And err, if you compare the soccer version of Kick Off on the C64 and on the A8... well we A8`ers lose again... Besides, its completely redundant to show examples of some bad C64 games (especially games where there`s no A8 version to compare with), because even me! could easily show examples of hundreds or thousands of bad A8 games. And while you are always asking Rockford if he hasn`t learned his lesson(s) yet, I could ask you the same - because you are showing such examples of bad C64 games over and over again, allthough you were already told that this is nonsense and redundant... Come on, there are many more game titles that exist on both platforms - show only comparing pics of them (maybe without comments). And err, maybe we can come to a gentlemen`s agreement: We Atarians stop with that "oh that title was after 1984/1985 when Atari 8Bit was no longer big/great/succesfull... and because of that your superior C64 version does not count..." - therefore you C64 guys stop with that "oh that title was made beyound 2000, so it uses all kinds of newer tricks, cheats, etc. on the A8; a C64 version of today could easily beat it, so don`t compare it with a C64 version of the 80s or 90s..." Come on, if a game does/did not exist on the A8, the only way to change this is to come out with a new, cloned, ported, etc. version today and then its really shitty to hear that (non-) argument of the c64 guys (new A8 titles with all kinds of tricks don`t count), just like its completely shitty to hear that (non-) argument of the Atarians (post 1984/1985 titles of C64 don`t count) over and over gain... -Andreas Koch. Edited October 9, 2009 by CharlieChaplin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 This thread has inspired me to move my C-64 up from the basement and into my computer room right next to my Atari 800. Why fight about which one was better when you can enjoy both? I'm not a computer purist, there are some games I like better on my Apple IIe, some on the 8-bit, and some on the C-64. I can't say that there's one single computer that can handle all my classic gaming needs. Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockford Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 (edited) Here is another C64 lovely just as I remember most c64 games from that time period. C64 looks bad again! I think Atari 2600 could do much better Well, I am an Atarian - but this C64 Kick Off version from 1983 at least shows a complete table football with all players !! There is an A8 version of table football by Rino Marketing years later (1987) having a) less colours and b) showing/using less players...ouch !! And the gameplay of the A8 version is awful... the game would have been okay for a PD/Freeware version, but as a commercial release its just awful. http://www.atarimania.com/8bit/screens/table_football_2.gif And err, if you compare the soccer version of Kick Off on the C64 and on the A8... well we A8`ers lose again... Besides, its completely redundant to show examples of some bad C64 games (especially games where there`s no A8 version to compare with), because even me! could easily show examples of hundreds or thousands of bad A8 games. And while you are always asking Rockford if he hasn`t learned his lesson(s) yet, I could ask you the same - because you are showing such examples of bad C64 games over and over again, allthough you were already told that this is nonsense and redundant... Come on, there are many more game titles that exist on both platforms - show only comparing pics of them (maybe without comments). And err, maybe we can come to a gentlemen`s agreement: We Atarians stop with that "oh that title was after 1984/1985 when Atari 8Bit was no longer big/great/succesfull... and because of that your superior C64 version does not count..." - therefore you C64 guys stop with that "oh that title was made beyound 2000, so it uses all kinds of newer tricks, cheats, etc. on the A8; a C64 version of today could easily beat it, so don`t compare it with a C64 version of the 80s or 90s..." Come on, if a game does/did not exist on the A8, the only way to change this is to come out with a new, cloned, ported, etc. version today and then its really shitty to hear that (non-) argument of the c64 guys (new A8 titles with all kinds of tricks don`t count), just like its completely shitty to hear that (non-) argument of the Atarians (post 1984/1985 titles of C64 don`t count) over and over gain... -Andreas Koch. Wow, I must admit, you have some guts. Edited October 9, 2009 by Rockford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atariksi Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Don't be jealous, the Commodore 64 got some from the same guys as well I still find much amusement in the fact that the absolute worst picture you choose to show there, still can't be done on an A8 without DLI and Player colouring arsery to make it work But why waste time with an ugly picture when you can make a more beautiful one on A8. And DLs/DLIs/PMs are normal standard techniques in A8 world-- that's why they are easy to do even within BASIC... Just need to poke one data statement like following to set up DLIs for whatever mode lines you need: 1 POKE 512,0:POKE 513,6:FOR T=1536 TO 1546:READ A:POKE T,A:NEXT T 10 POKE 54286,192:POKE 39977,130 100 DATA 72,169,42,141,10,212,141,26,208,104,64 Just have to remember that PHA=72, LDA=169, STA=141, PLA=104, RTI=64. And in graphics mode, the Plot, Drawto, Sound, etc. are easier on A8. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockford Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 This thread has inspired me to move my C-64 up from the basement and into my computer room right next to my Atari 800. Why fight about which one was better when you can enjoy both? I'm not a computer purist, there are some games I like better on my Apple IIe, some on the 8-bit, and some on the C-64. I can't say that there's one single computer that can handle all my classic gaming needs. Tempest To be honest I like to play SOME games on Atari. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popmilo Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 ...I never liked Ikari Warriors C64 version, has bad colors and playability. Instead I prefer the ROAR game with best set of colors and mixing hi-res with med-res graphics. Same type of game. What is ROAR ? game on A8 or C64 or some other 8bit beast ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockford Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 39 - MOUNTAIN BIKE RACER C64 C64 C64 The C64 version has better music, graphics, sprites and more colours. The Atari version has ugly sprites in low resolution. C64 is better again. ATARI ATARI ATARI 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atariksi Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Tau Ceti was the first time I saw sprites in the border... fairly sure that was 1986. I went "Wow" (about the trick, not the game), then went home and worked out how to do it myself. I guess Atari ST has problems as well with overscan as C64. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STE'86 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 c64 "problem" with overscan? there is no "problem". this implies its supposed to have it and it doesnt work. It doesnt have overscan so there is no "problem" just like there is no "problem" with the ataris sprite capability or sound chip. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchman Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Well, I am an Atarian - but this C64 Kick Off version from 1983 at least shows a complete table football with all players !! There is an A8 version of table football by Rino Marketing years later (1987) having a) less colours and b) showing/using less players...ouch !! And the gameplay of the A8 version is awful... the game would have been okay for a PD/Freeware version, but as a commercial release its just awful. http://www.atarimania.com/8bit/screens/table_football_2.gif And err, if you compare the soccer version of Kick Off on the C64 and on the A8... well we A8`ers lose again... Besides, its completely redundant to show examples of some bad C64 games (especially games where there`s no A8 version to compare with), because even me! could easily show examples of hundreds or thousands of bad A8 games. And while you are always asking Rockford if he hasn`t learned his lesson(s) yet, I could ask you the same - because you are showing such examples of bad C64 games over and over again, allthough you were already told that this is nonsense and redundant... Come on, there are many more game titles that exist on both platforms - show only comparing pics of them (maybe without comments). And err, maybe we can come to a gentlemen`s agreement: We Atarians stop with that "oh that title was after 1984/1985 when Atari 8Bit was no longer big/great/succesfull... and because of that your superior C64 version does not count..." - therefore you C64 guys stop with that "oh that title was made beyound 2000, so it uses all kinds of newer tricks, cheats, etc. on the A8; a C64 version of today could easily beat it, so don`t compare it with a C64 version of the 80s or 90s..." Come on, if a game does/did not exist on the A8, the only way to change this is to come out with a new, cloned, ported, etc. version today and then its really shitty to hear that (non-) argument of the c64 guys (new A8 titles with all kinds of tricks don`t count), just like its completely shitty to hear that (non-) argument of the Atarians (post 1984/1985 titles of C64 don`t count) over and over gain... -Andreas Koch. I hear you man, I was always both, as soon as they stopped doing softs on 800/fdd, I carried on with C64/fdd, later replaced with C128. No problems. Trouble with the UK users is that they compare games which are already rubbish on C64, eg they scored 30% or so in ZZAP!64, and moaning about how rubbish this game on A8 is (of course, why should it be better on A8, if it's already bad on C64). Second trouble, most UK users never played the gorgeous US classics on C64, eg >>>The Magic Candle, Nord and Bert, Breakers, The Halley Project, Starflight, Germany 85, Space Rogue, Crimson Crown, Times of Lore, Tigers in the Snow<<< (nicely re-made for C64, whilst the A8 had to stick with the 82 version)...etc, because they were spoiled with cheap UK softs on tape. Third trouble again with UK C64 users, they mostly did not own a second computer, so they never had the best of both worlds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allas Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 ...I never liked Ikari Warriors C64 version, has bad colors and playability. Instead I prefer the ROAR game with best set of colors and mixing hi-res with med-res graphics. Same type of game. What is ROAR ? game on A8 or C64 or some other 8bit beast ? ROAR or TANK (this is the arcade name) for C64. It's a great ikari warrior type game but with a tank with cooperative multiplayer. Really is fantastic and it's a great game on C64, mixing hi amd med res. Use all color along the different stages. I like the classic sound of Patton movie in this game. My favorite vertical scrolling game of all times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atariksi Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 c64 "problem" with overscan? there is no "problem". this implies its supposed to have it and it doesnt work. It doesnt have overscan so there is no "problem" just like there is no "problem" with the ataris sprite capability or sound chip. Steve The context of discussion is implementation of overscan on C64 (whatever form it takes-- imitation, simulation, etc.). So it's problematic compared to machines where it's built in like on Amiga and Atari 800. I don't think that analogy matches either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarian63 Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 39 - MOUNTAIN BIKE RACER C64 C64 C64 The C64 version has better music, graphics, sprites and more colours. The Atari version has ugly sprites in low resolution. C64 is better again. ATARI ATARI ATARI Poor job on A8 due to being past the golden age.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STE'86 Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 c64 "problem" with overscan? there is no "problem". this implies its supposed to have it and it doesnt work. It doesnt have overscan so there is no "problem" just like there is no "problem" with the ataris sprite capability or sound chip. Steve The context of discussion is implementation of overscan on C64 (whatever form it takes-- imitation, simulation, etc.). So it's problematic compared to machines where it's built in like on Amiga and Atari 800. I don't think that analogy matches either. imititation, simulation...problematic compared to machines where its built in... using your criteria, it seems a pretty close analogy to me Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Trouble with the UK users is that they compare games which are already rubbish on C64, eg they scored 30% or so in ZZAP!64, and moaning about how rubbish this game on A8 is (of course, why should it be better on A8, if it's already bad on C64). Surely they should at least be the same... Second trouble, most UK users never played the gorgeous US classics on C64, eg >>>The Magic Candle, Nord and Bert, Breakers, The Halley Project, Starflight, Germany 85, Space Rogue, Crimson Crown, Times of Lore, Tigers in the Snow<<< (nicely re-made for C64, whilst the A8 had to stick with the 82 version)...etc, because they were spoiled with cheap UK softs on tape. In my case it's not that i didn't play them, more a case of i didn't want to play them; my genre has always been shoot 'em ups and scrolling shoot 'em ups in particular, all things considered it's better to stick with the British and European coders than American for those games. Third trouble again with UK C64 users, they mostly did not own a second computer, so they never had the best of both worlds. Most had access to a second computer, although A8 hardware was pretty thin on the ground in comparison to the other platforms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarian63 Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 (edited) Andreas.. Wow, thats a really uninformed and totally incorrect view. It would be hard to be much more wrong than that. The statement is very correct and 82/84 or so. and yes the c64 stuff basically does not count due to progression and tricks etc. Had atari dev continued obviously it would have been much better. The public though is a but dull and chose the inferior product due only to price. You may not like "over and over again" but when certain c64'rs do not learn repitition is necessary. Edited October 10, 2009 by atarian63 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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