Atari v Commodore

[frenchman]

 

i replied that all the "classic" MP titles (your words) u mentioned were crap. i know they are crap.....

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

And that little British inch of credibility you had is just gone out the window.

 

you see again with the partial out of context quote. u will insist on making out that i dont like MP games as opposed to disputing your fanboy opinion that the early stuff was "classic"

 

classic? these? no i think not

 

 

classic? these? oh yes

 

 

but then i never expect u to agree because MP never got past the basic stage on the a8 did it? so how can u possibly agree. it would mean u played them on a 64 and would lose your fanboy mantle.

 

Steve

 

How would you know if I haven't played those games on C64? They are still classics on C64 too, they being on a different computer doesn't make them less a classic. And yes, Gunship and PSF are classics too, Gunship even autoboots on my C128 . How neat, hey!!

 

Anyway, here's a review of F15 in the most important gaming magazine, Computer Gaming World:

Name: F-15 Strike Eagle

Type: Arcade/Strategy

System: Atari, C-64

#Players: One

Author: Sid Meier, Grant Irani

Publisher: Microprose Software

Hunt Valley, MD

Having dispatched a Mig 21 over Syrian territory

with a Short-Ranged Attack Missile

(SRAM), I continue flying toward my primary

target — Syrian Air Command Headquarters.

Radar picks up four surface-to-air missiles

(SAMS), and two enemy aircraft on an intercept

course. Arming a medium ranged missile

(MRM), I fire at the first aircraft. Turning my

attention to the four SAMS, I dispatch two

flares and engage electronic counter measures

(ECM). Two missiles disappear from my radar

display. A third explodes on a flare. I watch as

my missile impacts the first aircraft and my

computer display flashes the message,

"Enemy Plane Hit". The target is rapidly approaching.

Arming bombs, I dive toward my

target ignoring the last enemy aircraft and

SAM. Dropping the bombs, I pull up and see

on my computer display that the target is hit.

I immediately turn to line up a secondary

target, WHAM! WHAM! I'm hit by the last

SAM and an enemy SRAM from the last

enemy aircraft Pulling up out of the wild dive,

I'm treated with a hail of cannon fire from the

enemy aircraft. Too low to bail out, my mission

ends as I slam into the ground!!

This is the action in Microprose's newest

game F-15 STRIKE EAGLE. The action is fast

and furious. Not paying attention or, conversely,

concentrating too hard on one target can

lead to disaster. The game has three levels of

play. The Arcade level is purposely simple, so

that you can get used to the game. It allows no

rolls. The Pilot level simulates the situation in

a real aircraft, with rolls, loops, etc. The Ace

level is the most difficult. In it the SAMS, heatseeking

missiles, and enemy aircraft are hard

to avoid.

The graphics are excellent, considerably better

than Microprose's MIG ALLEY ACE. The

game has a 3D display through the cockpit.

Not only are there air targets, but ground

targets as well. Bombing ground targets, while

dodging enemy aircraft and missiles, is your

primary goal. Unfortunately, the ground

targets are only triangles on the ground, not

the buildings I expected to see. This, however,

is minor and doesn't detract from the game.

As pilot, you're treated with a cockpit

display and a Heads Up Display (HUD). The

HUD includes a Navigational Chart display

which shows enemy positions, your base, and

your aircraft position; and a radar screen

which can be set to short, medium, or long

range. This display shows SAM launches,

enemy aircraft, and ground targets as they

come in view. Above the radar are four warning

lights showing radar lock, infra-red heat

source lock, low altitude (below 600 ft), and

low fuel warning. And a weapons status

display (WSD) in the form of a picture of your

aircraft showing all weapons on your aircraft.

At the bottom center is the amount of fuel in

the tanks.

In the center is the cockpit view. On this are

pitch lines to show aircraft attitude, and an Air

to Air Reticle (put enemy aircraft in the center

of this to score gun hits). Also included is an

Air Target Designator box (showing where an

approaching enemy aircraft will appear), and

a Missile Designator Box (showing where an

approaching missile will appear). These boxes

move in relation to your aircraft and enemy

aircraft and missile movement.

A pilot can bank, roll, dive, and do other

maneuvers. You can do a Split S, an Immelman,

Jinking, High/Low Speed Yoyos,

Loops, and any other combat maneuver you

deem necessary. All these are explained in the

excellent documentation included in the

game.

The only problem with the game is an omission

in the documentation. The manual says

you have to return to the base after completing

a mission to rearm, refuel, and repair your aircraft.

This means landing at your base. No

where in the documentation does it tell you

how to land. After several tries, and several

crashes, I found that you have to approach the

base at below 1000 ft and you are automatically

landed.

F-15 has seven missions. Six are based on

historical situations, and one is hypothetical.

Mission selection is done only in the beginning

of the game. The six historical missions

are Libya (1981), Egypt (1973), Haiphong (1972),

Syria (1984), Hanoi (1972), and Iraq (1981). The

hypothetical mission is the Persian Gulf (1984).

Overall, F-15 is an excellent simulation. If you

liked Mig Alley Ace, you will love F-15 !

Hosea Battles, Jr.

 

Ah, what's the point of justifying yourself to someone who doesn't know anything about video gaming. Useless.

[Rockford]

 

i replied that all the "classic" MP titles (your words) u mentioned were crap. i know they are crap.....

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

And that little British inch of credibility you had is just gone out the window.

 

that's for sure. I imagine it is hard for most of the UK people here to really have much validity in commenting on A8 as they have all said it was barely a presence in the UK. Unlike here where it was a major player for many years.Software was everywhere and in was second only to Apple for many years as well. Probably hard to imagine for them.

Not to mention Atari was a US company.

Commodore was also an US company

selling primarily overseas

Not really, since C64 outsold A8 everywhere in the world (including US).

[frenchman]

 

i replied that all the "classic" MP titles (your words) u mentioned were crap. i know they are crap.....

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

And that little British inch of credibility you had is just gone out the window.

 

that's for sure. I imagine it is hard for most of the UK people here to really have much validity in commenting on A8 as they have all said it was barely a presence in the UK. Unlike here where it was a major player for many years.Software was everywhere and in was second only to Apple for many years as well. Probably hard to imagine for them.

Not to mention Atari was a US company.

Commodore was also an US company

selling primarily overseas

Not really, since C64 outsold A8 everywhere in the world (including US).

And there we are back in the beginning, cheapest sells best, eg Spectrum outsold C64 in the UK, C64 outsold every other computer in the rest of the world, except Russia and Japan. (think of it this way, A8 is like Sony Betamax, C64 like VHS. Betamax better quality, but lost out to VHS, because VHS being cheaper)

As stated by UK magazine Retro Gamer issue 47, and I quote:

"Compared to the more popular home computers of the day, such as the ZX Spectrum and C64, Atari's computers were often regarded as high-end"....and of course, Retro Gamer being a British magazine, right they are.

Edited October 10, 2009 by frenchman

[+Stephen]

bump

Really? That's necessary?

 

Stephen Anderson

[Rockford]

 

i replied that all the "classic" MP titles (your words) u mentioned were crap. i know they are crap.....

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

And that little British inch of credibility you had is just gone out the window.

 

that's for sure. I imagine it is hard for most of the UK people here to really have much validity in commenting on A8 as they have all said it was barely a presence in the UK. Unlike here where it was a major player for many years.Software was everywhere and in was second only to Apple for many years as well. Probably hard to imagine for them.

Not to mention Atari was a US company.

Commodore was also an US company

selling primarily overseas

Not really, since C64 outsold A8 everywhere in the world (including US).

And there we are back in the beginning, cheapest sells best, eg Spectrum outsold C64 in the UK, C64 outsold every other computer in the rest of the world, except Russia and Japan. (think of it this way, A8 is like Sony Betamax, C64 like VHS. Betamax better quality, but lost out to VHS, because VHS being cheaper)

As stated by UK magazine Retro Gamer issue 47, and I quote:

"Compared to the more popular home computers of the day, such as the ZX Spectrum and C64, Atari's computers were often regarded as high-end"....and of course, Retro Gamer being a British magazine, right they are.

Well, your theory isn't true, since ATARI 800 XL was always cheaper than C64 in the whole world.

[frenchman]

Just visited Wiki regarding C64 softs, they are so deluded:

 

Due to the quality and quantity of games written for the computer (thanks in part to the advanced sound and graphic hardware), the Commodore 64 became well known primarily as a gaming and home entertainment platform more than as a serious business computer. The Commodore 64's large installed user base encouraged commercial companies to flood the market with game software, even up until Commodore's demise in 1994. Perhaps the most striking aspect of the Commodore 64's gaming history is the sheer number of game titles written for the machine. In total (according to Gamebase 64) there exist well over 20,000 unique game titles for the Commodore 64 - perhaps the largest game catalog for any home computer or game console to date, and easily rivaling the quantity of games produced for the ZX Spectrum.

 

20,000 unique game titles according to Gamebase 64. Except those made by hmmmm, lemme think..... PCS, BCK, SEUCK, type-in listings, Game Maker, Quills etc.... ah , we had this before.....laughable

[frenchman]

 

i replied that all the "classic" MP titles (your words) u mentioned were crap. i know they are crap.....

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

And that little British inch of credibility you had is just gone out the window.

 

that's for sure. I imagine it is hard for most of the UK people here to really have much validity in commenting on A8 as they have all said it was barely a presence in the UK. Unlike here where it was a major player for many years.Software was everywhere and in was second only to Apple for many years as well. Probably hard to imagine for them.

Not to mention Atari was a US company.

Commodore was also an US company

selling primarily overseas

Not really, since C64 outsold A8 everywhere in the world (including US).

And there we are back in the beginning, cheapest sells best, eg Spectrum outsold C64 in the UK, C64 outsold every other computer in the rest of the world, except Russia and Japan. (think of it this way, A8 is like Sony Betamax, C64 like VHS. Betamax better quality, but lost out to VHS, because VHS being cheaper)

As stated by UK magazine Retro Gamer issue 47, and I quote:

"Compared to the more popular home computers of the day, such as the ZX Spectrum and C64, Atari's computers were often regarded as high-end"....and of course, Retro Gamer being a British magazine, right they are.

Well, your theory isn't true, since ATARI 800 XL was always cheaper than C64 in the whole world.

 

You don't know anything, do you?

Quoting Retro Gamer again, just for you:

"In 1984, the newly released Atari XL, the computer designed to compete with the C64, was priced around GBP 250, Considerably cheaper than its older sibling, the Atari 800, had been on launch in the US, but far more exepensive than the Spectrum (GBP 130) or ....here comes the science bit, Rocky pay attention.....C64 (GBP 199)".

 

You want me to quote some German magazines from back 80s, with some German C64 and Atari XL pricing? Yes, I got those magazines too. And again, yes, C64 was cheaper, even with a fdd.

[Rockford]

 

i replied that all the "classic" MP titles (your words) u mentioned were crap. i know they are crap.....

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

And that little British inch of credibility you had is just gone out the window.

 

that's for sure. I imagine it is hard for most of the UK people here to really have much validity in commenting on A8 as they have all said it was barely a presence in the UK. Unlike here where it was a major player for many years.Software was everywhere and in was second only to Apple for many years as well. Probably hard to imagine for them.

Not to mention Atari was a US company.

Commodore was also an US company

selling primarily overseas

Not really, since C64 outsold A8 everywhere in the world (including US).

And there we are back in the beginning, cheapest sells best, eg Spectrum outsold C64 in the UK, C64 outsold every other computer in the rest of the world, except Russia and Japan. (think of it this way, A8 is like Sony Betamax, C64 like VHS. Betamax better quality, but lost out to VHS, because VHS being cheaper)

As stated by UK magazine Retro Gamer issue 47, and I quote:

"Compared to the more popular home computers of the day, such as the ZX Spectrum and C64, Atari's computers were often regarded as high-end"....and of course, Retro Gamer being a British magazine, right they are.

Well, your theory isn't true, since ATARI 800 XL was always cheaper than C64 in the whole world.

 

You don't know anything, do you?

Quoting Retro Gamer again, just for you:

"In 1984, the newly released Atari XL, the computer designed to compete with the C64, was priced around GBP 250, Considerably cheaper than its older sibling, the Atari 800, had been on launch in the US, but far more exepensive than the Spectrum (GBP 130) or ....here comes the science bit, Rocky pay attention.....C64 (GBP 199)".

 

You want me to quote some German magazines from back 80s, with some German C64 and Atari XL pricing? Yes, I got those magazines too. And again, yes, C64 was cheaper, even with a fdd.

As always, you are wrong.

http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=98

http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=27

[emkay]

As always, you are wrong.

http://www.old-compu...r.asp?st=1&c=98

http://www.old-compu...r.asp?st=1&c=27

 

 

Forget this site. Informations were not exactly from the same time and false entrys are obvious.

The 800XL with FLOPPY was far more expensive than a C64 with a floppy in the middle of 1985. But to be fair, I bought the 800XL with a 1010 Recorder at a special pricing. The 1050 I bought some months later.

[Gury]

You don't know anything, do you?

Quoting Retro Gamer again, just for you:

"In 1984, the newly released Atari XL, the computer designed to compete with the C64, was priced around GBP 250, Considerably cheaper than its older sibling, the Atari 800, had been on launch in the US, but far more exepensive than the Spectrum (GBP 130) or ....here comes the science bit, Rocky pay attention.....C64 (GBP 199)".

 

You want me to quote some German magazines from back 80s, with some German C64 and Atari XL pricing? Yes, I got those magazines too. And again, yes, C64 was cheaper, even with a fdd.

As always, you are wrong.

http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=98

http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=27

Rockford, I don't know what you want to prove with www.old-computers.com links. frenchman is right, C64 was cheaper most of the time. Even in my country, Slovenia, C64 was spreaded all over the place, with its comfort price. Luckily enough, my father bought me an Atari 130XE at that time, of course the one with cassette recorder, because disk drives were too expensive.

[STE'86]

Just visited Wiki regarding C64 softs, they are so deluded:

 

Due to the quality and quantity of games written for the computer (thanks in part to the advanced sound and graphic hardware), the Commodore 64 became well known primarily as a gaming and home entertainment platform more than as a serious business computer. The Commodore 64's large installed user base encouraged commercial companies to flood the market with game software, even up until Commodore's demise in 1994. Perhaps the most striking aspect of the Commodore 64's gaming history is the sheer number of game titles written for the machine. In total (according to Gamebase 64) there exist well over 20,000 unique game titles for the Commodore 64 - perhaps the largest game catalog for any home computer or game console to date, and easily rivaling the quantity of games produced for the ZX Spectrum.

 

20,000 unique game titles according to Gamebase 64. Except those made by hmmmm, lemme think..... PCS, BCK, SEUCK, type-in listings, Game Maker, Quills etc.... ah , we had this before.....laughable

 

yeah terrible when people exaggerate the quantity and quality of games for a particular machine isnt it?

 

meanwhile i am still waiting for a fanboy to post something good that isnt one of the "glorious 8"

 

how about it Frenchy? go on trawl thru the mags. surely u can find another bit of "golden era" software to make us laugh.

 

Steve

[frenchman]

As always, you are wrong.

http://www.old-compu...r.asp?st=1&c=98

http://www.old-compu...r.asp?st=1&c=27

 

 

Forget this site. Informations were not exactly from the same time and false entrys are obvious.

The 800XL with FLOPPY was far more expensive than a C64 with a floppy in the middle of 1985. But to be fair, I bought the 800XL with a 1010 Recorder at a special pricing. The 1050 I bought some months later.

 

The 183 Euro equivalent is for the Atari 600, the 800 XL price is not listed on that site.

[Rockford]

You don't know anything, do you?

Quoting Retro Gamer again, just for you:

"In 1984, the newly released Atari XL, the computer designed to compete with the C64, was priced around GBP 250, Considerably cheaper than its older sibling, the Atari 800, had been on launch in the US, but far more exepensive than the Spectrum (GBP 130) or ....here comes the science bit, Rocky pay attention.....C64 (GBP 199)".

 

You want me to quote some German magazines from back 80s, with some German C64 and Atari XL pricing? Yes, I got those magazines too. And again, yes, C64 was cheaper, even with a fdd.

As always, you are wrong.

http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=98

http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=27

Rockford, I don't know what you want to prove with www.old-computers.com links. frenchman is right, C64 was cheaper most of the time. Even in my country, Slovenia, C64 was spreaded all over the place, with its comfort price. Luckily enough, my father bought me an Atari 130XE at that time, of course the one with cassette recorder, because disk drives were too expensive.

Again, you are wrong.

What is the history of Atari's 8-bit computers platform?

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/atari-8-bit/faq/section-95.html

 

"Atari froze all product development and product introductions for 30 days

while Morgan evaluated the current situation. Morgan elected to cancel the

announced 1400XL and he put the 1450XLD on hold. Furthermore, the delay meant

the 600XL/800XL would not reach mass production in time for Christmas 1983.

 

Sept83-June84: The "Catch On to Computers" program, a joint effort between

Atari and General Foods' Post Cereals, offered Atari computers, equipment, and

educational software to schools for collecting Post cereal proof-of-purchase

points over the 1983-1984 school year.

 

September: Ted Kahn stepped down as executive director of the Atari Institute

for Educational Action Research. More than US$1 million worth of computers,

software, and cash stipends had been awarded to over 100 nonprofit

organizations since the program's founding in 1981.

 

September: The Atari 800 (with 48K RAM, without Atari BASIC) would now retail

for US$165 while supplies lasted.

 

Fall: Atari begin shipping the 1050 disk drive with DOS 3 (replacing DOS

2.0S).

 

Fall: The Atari 600XL/800XL both shipped, retail price US$199/$299, though

limited early production fell far short of initial demand.

 

Fall: Atari shipped the Communicator II package, containing the 835 modem.

 

October 11: John Cavalier departed from his position as president of the

Management (marketing) division of the Atari Products Company.

 

October: Atari launched Atari Learning Systems, a new division dedicated to

product development, sales, and support for K-12 educators in the U.S.

 

October: Atari France launched the "L'Atarien" magazine, issue 0 (pilot ?),

the "magazine of the Atari Club". In its first issues, the magazine was

mostly centered on the 2600 VCS and 400/800 computers, but the focus quickly

shifted to the XL computers in the next issues. Officially the magazine was

issued by "Rive Ouest - Cato Johnson France" on behalf of "PECF Atari France"

(Issue #0, Page 3). "PECF" was the nickname of the company "Productions et

Editions Cinematographiques Francaises", a company 100% owned by Warner

Communications.

 

October-December: "Catch on to Computers" computer literacy training programs

for children, adults, and teachers, sponsored by Atari and General Mills' Post

Cereals, ran in 10 cities across the U.S.

 

November: Atari opened the Atari Adventure center in St. Louis, MO. The

concept combined a traditional video game arcade with a hands-on public

computer classroom/lab featuring Atari XL computers, along with a new

technology display area.

 

"Atari sold roughly 250,000 of its 800 series computers last year"

- Time magazine, July 16, 1984

 

1984

January 1: Atari increased U.S. dealer prices for the Atari 600XL and 800XL

by US$40 each, to US$180 and US$280, respectively.

 

January 7-10: At the Winter CES in Las Vegas Atari introduced: the 1064 Memory

Module (for the 600XL), The Atari Translator, Typo Attack, Mario Bros.,

Moon Patrol, Jungle Hunt, Millipede, Skywriter, SynFile+, SynCalc, SynTrend,

The Legacy (renamed Final Legacy when shipped), Player Maker, Screen Maker.

(Atari's James Morgan said the unshipped Atari 1450XLD was "exhibited only as

a demonstration of the company's intent to market a high-end computer in 1984,

although the specifics of such a product are currently under review."

--Creative Computing May 1984. Software introduced by Atari but never

shipped: Atari Pascal 2.0, Atari Super PILOT, Captain Hook's Revenge,

Berserk, Pop'R Spell)

 

January 14: At San Francisco's St. Francis Hotel, Atari awarded the third

annual Atari Star Award and US$25,000 to Mark Reid for his APX title,

Getaway!.

 

January 23: Atari chairman and CEO James Morgan announced another management

reorganization at Atari. John Farrand was promoted to president of Atari, and

would also now serve as president and COO of the Atari Products Company

(home computers, home video games, and now coin-operated arcade games).

 

February: Atari 5200 production ended.

 

March: Fred Thorlin, director of APX since 1982, left Atari.

 

Spring: Issue Five turned out to be the final issue of Atari Input/Output, the

magazine of the Atari Home Computer Club (Atari UK).

 

April: Atari shut down the APX operation. Software rights were returned to

the original authors.

 

May 8: In an elaborate press event, Atari and Lucasfilm introduced Ballblazer

and Rescue on Fractalus!, developed by Lucasfilm, to be shipped by Atari on

cartridge for the 400/800 computers and the 5200 SuperSystem. (The Atari

computer versions were finally shipped on disk by Epyx (USA) and Activision

(UK) in 1985. The 5200 versions were finally released by Atari Corp. in

1986.)

 

May 21: Atari disclosed that the 5200 was no longer in production. More than

1 million 5200's had been sold to date. (Washington Post, May 22, 1984, C3)

 

June 3: Atari motto at the Summer CES in Chicago: "June 3, 1984--The Day The

Future Began." (The previously announced then cancelled 1450XLD, or some new

model similar to it, was now to ship in time for Christmas 1984. The 1090 XL

Expansion System was shown again, and Atari also offered specs for a new high-

end computer under development. None of these shipped.) Atari introduced:

Proofreader (for AtariWriter), Track and Field, Crystal Castles. Atari also

introduced The Last Starfighter, which was ultimately re-worked and shipped as

Star Raiders II in 1986. (Also introduced by Atari but never shipped:

MindLink hardware device, Jr. Pac-Man, Peek-A-Boo, Hobgoblin, This Is Ground

Control, Through the Starbridge, Find It!, Elevator Action, Yaacov Agam's

Interactive Painting, The ABC of CPR: First Aid, Wheeler-Dealer, Simulated

Computer, Telly Turtle, Word Tutor, Letter Tutor, Gremlins, Pole Position II)

 

June: Atari France announced the SECAM model of the 800XL. (The SECAM 600XL

was also announced, but this never made it into production.) List prices:

600XL PAL: 2200 FRF ; 600XL SECAM: 2500 FRF ; 800XL PAL: 3200 FRF ;

800XL SECAM: 3500 FRF ; 1010: 890 FRF ; 1050: 3690 FRF ; 1020: 2590 FRF;

1027: 3490 FRF ; Atari Touch Tablet: 890 FRF

 

July 1: Agreed on this date, effective June 30, the assets of the Atari home

computer and home video game businesses were sold by Warner Communications to

Tramel Technology Ltd., which had been formed on May 17, 1984 by its chairman

and CEO Jack Tramiel (pronounced truh-MELL), the founder and former president

of Commodore International. The transaction included exclusive use of the

"Atari" name and "Fuji" logo in the home computer and home video game markets,

along with the intellectual property rights (patents, trademarks, and

copyrights) owned by Atari in conjunction with its home computer and home

video game businesses. The home computer and home video game rights to Atari

coin-operated arcade games developed to date were included as well.

 

Tramel Technology adopted the new name, Atari Corporation. Jack Tramiel would

continue as chairman and CEO, and (son) Sam Tramiel would serve as president.

 

Summer: The new Atari Corp. halted all manufacturing, and dismissed most of

its inherited Silicon Valley workforce, roughly 1,000 people.

 

Upon a review of the existing product lines and inventories, it was

determined to resume production of the 800XL computer and the 2600 VCS.

The 600XL was discontinued, and further work on prototype new XL computer

models was halted. There would be no new game releases for the already-

discontinued 5200 (Atari would go on to release three 5200 titles in 1986).

An unannounced new cost-reduced design for the 2600 was also shelved.

(This "2600jr" would finally be released in 1986.)

Atari Connection magazine was shut down.

 

July 13: Warner Communications announced the sale of 78% of its WCI Labs

subsidiary (internal co-developer of the Atari XL computers) to WCI Labs'

management. As a result of the transaction, which was made effective

retroactive to June 1, 1984, a new privately held company, the Take One

Company, was formed, with Steven T. Mayer as chairman and chief executive.

Warner Communications initially retained 22% ownership of Take One.

 

August: Atari engineers completed the prototype "800XLF" motherboard design,

to be used in new-production 800XL computers. The new 800XL machines would

include the new FREDDIE memory management chip (previously developed at

Atari, Inc.), the new Revision C of Atari BASIC, and a reinstated chrominance

video signal on the Monitor port (missing on the 1200XL/600XL/800XL produced

by Atari, Inc.). The new 800XL machines would be produced in PAL and (for

the first time, France-specific) SECAM versions, but not the NTSC version due

to ample existing supply of NTSC 800XL machines.

 

August: Atari reduced the retail price for the 800XL from US$250 to US$179.

 

November 13: Atari held a press conference at company headquarters in

Sunnyvale, CA in which they outlined their basic marketing strategy for 1985.

The U.S. price for the 800XL was reduced from US$179 to US$119.

 

December 6: It was reported that Atari would make an immediate 23 per cent

reduction to DM 499 (US$160) in the price of its 800XL home computer in West

Germany and similar cuts in the UK and Italy. Atari estimated the company's

share of the West German home computer market at 8%, compared with 2% in 1983.

In the UK, the 800XL price cut was from 170 to 130 pounds.

 

December: Atari France announced the new prices of the XL computers range:

600XL PAL: 1599 FRF ; 800XL PAL: 2199 FRF ; 800XL SECAM: 2499 FRF;

1010: 449 FRF ; 1050: 2699 FRF ; 1020: 899 FRF ; 1027: 3399 FRF;

Atari Touch Tablet: 649 FRF

 

December: Atari France resumed L'Atarien magazine with issue #5. (It had been

on hold since issue #4, June 1984.)

 

December: Atari engineers completed the prototype "900XLF" motherboard design,

to be used in the forthcoming 65XE computer.

 

"The 800XL has sold almost 500,000 units through 1984" --Atari's Sigmund

Hartmann, Atari Explorer magazine, Summer 1985, p. 33.

 

"By the end of 1984, the Atari 800XL will have sold more than 600,000 units

since its introduction more than a year ago, according to Kenneth Lim of

Dataquest, a market research firm in San Jose." InfoWorld January 7/14, 1985"

[frenchman]

Ah $299, so Retro Gamer was spot on with the UK launch price of GBP250 for the 800XL

Edited October 10, 2009 by frenchman

[STE'86]

and how would u say that $299 = £250 in 1984? i saw no reference for £250 and u would most certainly not get any enchange rate to match that in 84.

 

also as an illuminating note it has to be said that in june of 1985 (thats FIVE) c64s in the uk were £199 with a casette deck and that 1541 were virtually the same price again.

 

so they were hardly the cheap ass option that u fellers would have us all believe were they?

 

another myth busted by rockford.

[TMR]

Well, the 16 bits like ST and AMIGA had the faster CPU compared to the A8 and 64 anyways. But they had to handle the higher resolution which causes a drop of the framerate.

 

But they were more capable still, so that's unimportant; they could throw around a busy 3D game and had some excellent examples that kept gamers very happy, it's just that the market as a whole wasn't interested. The C64 didn't derail the 3D games market in the way you seem to think simply because there wasn't one at that point, there were other machines with 3D games at the same time and the platforms that followed were more suited to 3D than any of the 8-bits, but the companies experimented with 3D and the results were never successful enough to result in the same kind of market shift that came later - the market wanted 2D as well.

 

Ask people what their favourite Amiga or ST games are and you'll usually find them to be a mixture of 2D and 3D.

 

The obscurity belongs to the customers view of things. Trained with the available "wants" of known things....

 

And that simply isn't the case, because when a relatively obscure shareware game called Wolfenstein 3D came along the market was already in the lifeboats before most people had even noticed the 2D ship was sinking.

[Rockford]

and how would u say that $299 = £250 in 1984? i saw no reference for £250 and u would most certainly not get any enchange rate to match that in 84.

 

also as an illuminating note it has to be said that in june of 1985 (thats FIVE) c64s in the uk were £199 with a casette deck and that 1541 were virtually the same price again.

 

so they were hardly the cheap ass option that u fellers would have us all believe were they?

 

another myth busted by rockford.

Exactly, what's more, a year earlier (1984) in the UK, the 800XL price was cut from 170 to 130 pounds. So, which one was cheaper ? LOL

Edited October 11, 2009 by Rockford

[TMR]

You have not played enough time. Initially the tank have very reduce amount of poewr, more gorup of letters you take, more powerful your tank will be.

 

i've never actually played Tank for more than five minutes, but i just found a quote from Mark R. Jones (a former employee of Ocean) who said that "all us lot downstairs at Ocean substituted the 'T' with a 'W' whenever we mentioned the game!" i don't even know if that verdict applied to the C64 version, it just made me laugh and i wanted to share. =-)

[Barnacle boy]

Here is a 1990 c64 commercial soccer game vs an early 80's Atari 2600 soccer game.

I think the 2600 looks better with more detailed characters.

Atari 2600 wins

 

It's a little dishonest to compare a soccer management game (British Super League on c64) against a more typical realtime soccer game, isn't it?

 

Dishonest, but not surprising.

 

 

I almost feel sorry for you, old chum. As you pick your way through Lemon64's list of Worst 100 Games, it must be kind of depressing to face the fact that half of them still look better than the typical GOLDEN AGE Atari game.

 

NOTE: That link isn't entirely worksafe. There are a couple of dodgy 'adult' games on the list.

Edited October 11, 2009 by Barnacle boy

[atarian63]

Here is a 1990 c64 commercial soccer game vs an early 80's Atari 2600 soccer game.

I think the 2600 looks better with more detailed characters.

Atari 2600 wins

 

It's a little dishonest to compare a soccer management game (British Super League on c64) against a more typical realtime soccer game, isn't it?

 

Dishonest, but not surprising.

 

 

I almost feel sorry for you, old chum. As you pick your way through Lemon64's list of Worst 100 Games, it must be kind of depressing to face the fact that half of them still look better than the typical GOLDEN AGE Atari game.

 

NOTE: That link isn't entirely worksafe. There are a couple of dodgy 'adult' games on the list.

Actually considdering it's 1990 c64 vs 1983 2600 it's no wonder coming from you that you would cry foul . 1990 commercial c64 game Vs the lowly Atari 2600 and the Atari 2600 wins. Very sad.

 

Also there are so many other places to find bad c64 games, you seem to ignore the many youtube one's I have posted. Seems it must irritate you that the c64 fanboy site has a top 100 awful games list. There are many many more bad games than that on c64. Golden Age 2600 game beats 1990 zenith c64 game..

[Chickybaby]

This message is for STE and anyone else - knock it off and keep it civil or you will be on moderator preview or your posting abilities will be revoked. There have been enough warnings in this thread to everyone and this is my only and final one.

Thank you.

 

Just visited Wiki regarding C64 softs, they are so deluded:

 

Due to the quality and quantity of games written for the computer (thanks in part to the advanced sound and graphic hardware), the Commodore 64 became well known primarily as a gaming and home entertainment platform more than as a serious business computer. The Commodore 64's large installed user base encouraged commercial companies to flood the market with game software, even up until Commodore's demise in 1994. Perhaps the most striking aspect of the Commodore 64's gaming history is the sheer number of game titles written for the machine. In total (according to Gamebase 64) there exist well over 20,000 unique game titles for the Commodore 64 - perhaps the largest game catalog for any home computer or game console to date, and easily rivaling the quantity of games produced for the ZX Spectrum.

 

20,000 unique game titles according to Gamebase 64. Except those made by hmmmm, lemme think..... PCS, BCK, SEUCK, type-in listings, Game Maker, Quills etc.... ah , we had this before.....laughable

 

yeah terrible when people exaggerate the quantity and quality of games for a particular machine isnt it?

 

meanwhile i am still waiting for a fanboy to post something good that isnt one of the "glorious 8"

 

how about it Frenchy? go on trawl thru the mags. surely u can find another bit of "golden era" software to make us laugh.

 

Steve

[atarian63]

and how would u say that $299 = £250 in 1984? i saw no reference for £250 and u would most certainly not get any enchange rate to match that in 84.

 

also as an illuminating note it has to be said that in june of 1985 (thats FIVE) c64s in the uk were £199 with a casette deck and that 1541 were virtually the same price again.

 

so they were hardly the cheap ass option that u fellers would have us all believe were they?

 

another myth busted by rockford.

Here in the US, they were $199 at a time when Atari was $349. So not only was the c64 cheaper is was so incredibly cheaply made. A real peice of junk with one of the highest failure rates right from the box. Took all the way to the xbox 360 to get to that level of incompetent manufacture. I am sure you all will give some lame excuse, but I am also sure NONE of you owed a retail store that sold both. So you would not be in a position to argue with me. It was horrendous. Vic drives were bad,and 1541 was even worse.

This would explain the cheap aspect on the c64.It was just plain cheap.

As for your "myth" now not debunked there in the UK. As you will recall Atari had been bought out by Tramiel by 84 so the unit's price drop was due to Tramiel doing what he does, drop the price.. at least the units being liquidated had been manufactured under Warner and were light years ahead of c64 in quality!

Edited October 11, 2009 by atarian63

[atarian63]

 

i replied that all the "classic" MP titles (your words) u mentioned were crap. i know they are crap.....

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

And that little British inch of credibility you had is just gone out the window.

 

that's for sure. I imagine it is hard for most of the UK people here to really have much validity in commenting on A8 as they have all said it was barely a presence in the UK. Unlike here where it was a major player for many years.Software was everywhere and in was second only to Apple for many years as well. Probably hard to imagine for them.

Not to mention Atari was a US company.

Commodore was also an US company

selling primarily overseas

Not really, since C64 outsold A8 everywhere in the world (including US).

But not by nearly as much as the UK.

Kind of like a Porsche sells fewer units vs a Hyundai and is also loads better in quality and power!

[Barnacle boy]

Here is a 1990 c64 commercial soccer game vs an early 80's Atari 2600 soccer game.

I think the 2600 looks better with more detailed characters.

Atari 2600 wins

 

It's a little dishonest to compare a soccer management game (British Super League on c64) against a more typical realtime soccer game, isn't it?

 

Dishonest, but not surprising.

 

 

I almost feel sorry for you, old chum. As you pick your way through Lemon64's list of Worst 100 Games, it must be kind of depressing to face the fact that half of them still look better than the typical GOLDEN AGE Atari game.

 

NOTE: That link isn't entirely worksafe. There are a couple of dodgy 'adult' games on the list.

Actually considdering it's 1990 c64 vs 1983 2600 it's no wonder coming from you that you would cry foul . 1990 commercial c64 game Vs the lowly Atari 2600 and the Atari 2600 wins. Very sad.

I'm simply pointing out your dishonesty in the way you're attempting to draw a false comparison between two games in different genres. Soccer management games typically don't place much emphasis on graphical frills. That's common knowledge.

 

What will you do for an encore? Compare a text-only adventure to a platform game?

 

 

 

Seems it must irritate you that the c64 fanboy site has a top 100 awful games list. There are many many more bad games than that on c64.

 

Of course there are many more bad games than the ones on that list. Is anyone disputing that? Given the huge number of releases on the c64 over its lengthy lifespan, there are bound to be loads of cruddy titles. The Atari certainly has its fair share of crud too. But so what?

 

What do you think you will gain by saying "Hey look! I found some bad games on the c64"? You've even had a long-time Atari gamer point out to you that anyone could do the same in regards to the Atari. You just end up looking desperate, like one of those politicians who has nothing to offer and so resorts to trying to sling mud at his opponent, while everyone else finds themselves thinking of the old saying about people in glass houses throwing stones. Mind you, the good old "Better to keep quiet and be thought a fool..." one also comes to mind in this case.

 

By the way, I'm not at all troubled about Lemon64 having a list of the 100 lowest ranked games. Sometimes it's fun to check out the real stinkers. I think you'll find that most c64 owners aren't particularly bothered by the existence of bad games on the system, simply because there was such a steady stream of excellent titles to keep us busy.

[atariksi]

and how would u say that $299 = £250 in 1984? i saw no reference for £250 and u would most certainly not get any enchange rate to match that in 84.

 

also as an illuminating note it has to be said that in june of 1985 (thats FIVE) c64s in the uk were £199 with a casette deck and that 1541 were virtually the same price again.

 

so they were hardly the cheap ass option that u fellers would have us all believe were they?

 

another myth busted by rockford.

 

No, another fact twisted with a biased mentality and the myth of C64 being more expensive being propated. I purchased my Atari 800 for $899 and around that time C64 was around $500. Just doing some random searches on the internet is not going to help. You have compare prices at same time from start of marketing of C64 and onwards where the starting is more significant. What the heck is the point of finding some expensive prices if the C64 is already flooded the market (i.e., inferior product has already saturated the market and left no choice to the competitor but to drop prices and take losses).