dwhyte Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Coze, you might want to try using the atariage search feature next time...save's you starting a thread about something that's already been discussed LMAO... Not at you Coze... About what then, exactly The irony of your statement carmel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEtalGuy66 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I was amazed at the desert dream remake on the C=64... Its remarkably faithful to the original AMIGA demo.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmel_andrews Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 (edited) nothing ironic abot the statement dw, i am not the original poster I was merely commenting on from what rybags said in his first post....like the following Already been discussed some time ago. Edited February 22, 2009 by carmel_andrews Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fröhn Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 You have misunderstood the whole point of demos. Demos are no "unfinished games". Oh I see. You just watch them and forget them. My Xbox has these too. They are called DVDs. All 4 sentences of your reply are wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I was amazed at the desert dream remake on the C=64... Its remarkably faithful to the original AMIGA demo.. "Faithful" ist THE word here Those C64 guys really put all efforts into a "perfect presentation" by using all C64 features and limitations, to make the watcher seeing more than it gives for real. I'm still waiting/dreaming (?) for some similar demo like "edge of disgrace".... The difference would be that we would have a "4 channel mod" playing and from disk loading IRQ loader.... using for the graphics free cpu time and antic features... While loading, the demo reduces the graphics movements... using DL programming for fullscreen FX and so on. The most important part relies on the floating of the presentation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
800XLNZ Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Apples & Oranges; supply disk images of the demos involved (shorter download time than Yourpube) and let the voters sort it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fröhn Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Disk images = emulator = doesn't do justice to the 50 fps smoothness of EoD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Disk images = emulator = doesn't do justice to the 50 fps smoothness of EoD. At 50fps it will just be like a really cheap milkshake. Smooth, but still BORING AS ALL HELL Do you C64 guys enjoy watching the exact same plasma effect (with a fixed pallette) fifty billion times only in a different part of the screen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmel_andrews Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Well there is the old saying, once you've one effect done once you seen it a million times I till yearn for someone to pick up numen, dust it off and give us a sequal...with even better features/effects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastRobPlus Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Watched it again. Looks really clean. Really pastel. Not the best C64 demo by a long shot. Desert Dream is cooler, and Trap and Swinth are both far more entertaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fröhn Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Disk images = emulator = doesn't do justice to the 50 fps smoothness of EoD. At 50fps it will just be like a really cheap milkshake. Smooth, but still BORING AS ALL HELL Do you C64 guys enjoy watching the exact same plasma effect (with a fixed pallette) fifty billion times only in a different part of the screen? Sorry that I am not amazed at the same texture routine at 0.0001 fps anymore. Nothing is hard to do on an 8 bit computer if the framerate doesn't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Disk images = emulator = doesn't do justice to the 50 fps smoothness of EoD. At 50fps it will just be like a really cheap milkshake. Smooth, but still BORING AS ALL HELL Do you C64 guys enjoy watching the exact same plasma effect (with a fixed pallette) fifty billion times only in a different part of the screen? Sorry that I am not amazed at the same texture routine at 0.0001 fps anymore. Nothing is hard to do on an 8 bit computer if the framerate doesn't matter. And your point is? I already said it was technically good. That doesn't make it interesting to watch though. I found it boring. That's my perspective on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candle Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 unfused (to be found on pouet) is quite nice demo, it uses only text mode, and system fonts, and yet it has some spirit numen, as it is my "test demo" which i need to watch after installing yet another 1mb upgrade on another atari bacame quite boring true - it has some verry nice effects, but gosh, how long i have to watch to 80x50 (or so) vector "world" moving at 5? 10? frames per second - sure - nice to see this done, but have seen spectum demos doing better what i would really like to see is something new, with some design in it sure - its easy to criticise... ps. booze design seems to like plasmas verry much - got three of them, and whoo - they have new demo!! should have less booze, more design i suppose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sl0re Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I think a lot of these demos are kind boring (bouncing stuff, got it). On the other hand, I love the pokey music. Anyone have any Atari music specific collections? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaPa Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I think a lot of these demos are kind boring (bouncing stuff, got it). On the other hand, I love the pokey music. Anyone have any Atari music specific collections? ASMA - http://asma.atari.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potatohead Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I liked the art direction on transitions and overall visual presentation. Nicely done. For me, seeing the edges pushed is where I really enjoy demos. It can be simple, such as another sprite or color per line, or very complex, like a new software graphics mode, or other interesting use of the hardware. IMHO, this demo didn't feature much of that. There are better tricks on C64. At least I'm sure I've seen them. Perhaps it could just be the visual impact was different. Others here can sort that out better than I can. All I can say is that I didn't end up thinking, "WOW, that's new!". @candle: Yep, we've seen that. There have been some advances in that world though. Smart lights, texture mapping, etc... There are enough options not yet explored through and through to warrant seeing a bit more of that still. I don't think we've seen it all just yet. The overall texture of it is a challenge! IMHO, that just increases the potential for art though. All good. Again, I was expecting to see NEW given it's the "best C64 demo". What I did see was very good art direction, sans too many pastels. Some of that is the C64 palette, some of it was just choices or maybe some additional work. Don't know. Just saw too many pastels for my taste. I don't want to let that detract from very clear and bold visuals though. I liked those elements. To be completely fair, I am biased toward the Atari machines. The hardware offers more options as it's just more complex, and because of that there is a lot of territory not yet really exploited. My chance of seeing something NEW is higher on A8, IMHO. ...of course, that's the burden isn't it? To go and demonstrate that's not the case. For me, this demo didn't really do that. Don't get me wrong though. A lot of hard work goes into these productions, and over the years, I've enjoyed watching them very much. Thanks to the demo crew for that. Appreciated! The technical discussion surrounding them is good too. So then, what's NEW in this one? What are we supposed to be seeing that pushes the edge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmel_andrews Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I guess the reason why A8 doesnt have an 'equivalent' to this demo mentioned by the OP is because there probably isn't A8 versions for the advanced coding techniques used in coding the aforementioned c64 demo But i am sure that some of our mainland european A8 coders might have some idea's in this area and we simply have not seen their labours/hard work yet I say mainland european A8 coders as these peeps seem to be at the bleeding edge when it comes to A8 demo coding, though i guess it won't be too long before the American A8 coders start catching up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Some of the stuff in there is really good (zoomers etc). But really, it's more a showcase of good 6502 programming than it is of an individual machine's abilities. You could just as easily do that stuff on an Atari, BBC (to a degree), or Apple II. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potatohead Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 That sums it up perfectly Rybags. Kind of funny you mention the Apple. It runs at 1.0Mhz!! Somehow I never think of that machine being able to do things like zoomers, but I suppose it can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 (edited) I think a lot of these demos are kind boring (bouncing stuff, got it). On the other hand, I love the pokey music. Anyone have any Atari music specific collections? [/quote what about ASMA collection? google is your friend... ah... my netbook haven't showed the full thread... already mentioned. Edited February 23, 2009 by Heaven/TQA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 ok.... some comments to Numen... at that time there was not many (any?) vector world styled demos on A8. Asskicker from Shadows was long years ago done... so Fox came up with the quake engine. ok. it runs slow but in context at that time we were even discussing here at A8 the possibilities regarding free quake like engines even on A8 (quake engine means that you can look around and move up/down). further we were bored of the "monochrome" mode9 fx...so we used as much as we could mode10...ok. sacrificed few colours but got more colorish effect... then we invented the TIP mode for Dracons title screen and the the brain pic. first time on the market. then we discussed internally HIP effects... I was like Emkay sometimes...I forced Fox/eru to try it... I got the feeling that it must be possible... resulted in the HIP bump and the nice TIP plasma. New on the market, too... as there was only used for static pics. all mode9/10 effects are based on the brand new mode9/10++ technique using the vscroll buffer trick to gain more CPU per frame. what else to say...what else do I remember... the transparency effect was based on tests which I made at that time but my code was too slow. Luckily the guys coded one version on their own. fox/eru did a brilliant job in terms of the micro demo OS handling all events. check out the source codes. Dracon did nice gfx, even some of his artwork is from the 90s and was finally used in a production. Some of them I had on 5,25 discs Dracon send me 10 years ago... Xray had written a perfect soundtrack... the first version I personally liked more than the final one...but after few listening sessions the actual soundtrack fits perfectly. just my 2 cents regarding Numen... to the many plasma fx on c64... Graham of Oxyron seems to be Plasma fan, too. Esp for Plasmas in the borders... his 2nd Atari production has something to do with plasmas, too... you have to know that putting gfx in the c64 borders is a tricky thing and kind of "holy grail"...so plasma in borders or fullscreen plasmas is tricky for the 900 khz beast as the plasma needs to be calculated for the normal screen part, plus the multiplexed sprites in the border and even in the bottom borders... maybe that's a kind of showcase for coding skills why it appears so often in productions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candle Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 haeven: © 1997-2002 Taquart what we have now? 2009? or i'm missing something? Numen was new back then, but 7 years have passed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 That's been gone through before too. We have more games coming out than significant demos. When given the choice, 97 people out of 100 would rather like a new game than a demo which you might watch a few times, then put away for several weeks/months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmel_andrews Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 whilst what rybags said is true to a large extent, there will always be a sizeable market for those interested in demo's intro's, cracktro's etc, if not for the nice effects then just to get an insight into all this advanced graphics techniques/coding techniques etc Perhpas just like space age technology and space shuttle technology has now permeated down to consumer level, perhaps the same effects from the demo scene can permeate down to the new games coming out for the lovely a8/c64 systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fröhn Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 But really, it's more a showcase of good 6502 programming than it is of an individual machine's abilities. You could just as easily do that stuff on an [...] BBC (to a degree), or Apple II. No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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