The Best C64 Demo (Can A8 do better ?)

[atarian63]

I don't think one could be a good game programmer if one's orgin arent at the demoscene, simply because on demoscene coders push up the limits and proove that this or that could be done faster or done at all with given hardware.

but i'm drifting out of subject now

my point is, that productivity at the demoscene on 8bit atari is quite low

 

just wish there were more decent productions :/

 

Almost no recent demos? Let's keep it that way!

You notice the trolls don't come here to open up threads like "What game has your precious Atari gotten recently that can compete with us?"

 

We're getting phenomenal games (Hobgoblin, Yoomp!, Crownland, Tempest) at a very good clip considering how few programmers we have! You want to abandon gems like Beyond Evil and Space Harrier and push these guys code demos you can watch once or twice and then forget?!?

 

If so, perhaps you'd be more happy in the Commodore scene.

I suspect most of those who want demos are asking for them because there is still a retro demo scene in parts of Europe (I'm thinking Germany and Scandinavia) but these parties don't even exist in most of the world.

 

I'll tell you what is picking up steam: Retro games shows and conventions. Casual gaming is all around us now. You see a lot of folks - from hackers to soccer moms who grew up in an age where video games were just taking off, but the world accepts games and technology now. Now as a culture we’re even looking back to the golden age. We'll have at least one retro convention in the Seattle/Vancouver/Portland area this year, probably more. And I'd bet there will be many retro shows or modern video gaming shows with a retro presence everywhere in the world this year. People love taking a break at these to sit at the retro tabes and play a game of Donkey Kong on the NES or Pong on the Atari while a small crowd gathers around to watch and take turns.

 

But here's the deal: Most of these people are going to gather around Guitar Hero and Smash Bros and whatever new V.C. or Xbox Live Arcade games are out that month. It's takes a lot just to grab the attention of a crowd and keep them for more than 15 seconds.

 

So try this:

Next time a show is in your area, setup a retro computing table and at one end of that table put a C64 running Desert Dream or EoD, and at the other end put an XL/XE with Yoomp! and watch the crowd. Chances are depending on where you are in the C64's demo, a few people will gather to look at the screen and remark about how they used to have a C64, then wander away as the demo fails to sustain their interest for more than 15 second (plasma effects aint gonna cut it on a show floor)

Now, watch the Yoomp! side. You'll notice the same small number of folks look at the display, remark about how they used to have an Atari and how they played Yars Revenge on it all night, and then something interesting might happen: They will pick up the joystick and play, and they will see that Yoomp! is just as good as anything they have played on their V.C. or XBLA or DS or iPhone this week. They will ask when it was made. When they find its recent they will ask if it's coming to the modern consoles as a cheap download. Others will gather around to watch whoever is playing. They will try to deconstruct the gameplay and laugh when somebody gets unexpectedly flung to the side down a hole. They will remark that the music is better than anything they remember computers doing from that era. They will stay a lot longer – minutes as opposed to seconds. The next day, they may even remember Yoomp and remark about it to their friends.

 

So... What machine has the best demo? Let the world decide.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*edit* before anybody tells me that Yar's Revenge is not out of the Atari 8-bit, I wanted to say that's my point. Even at a retro games con, most of the folks who see "Atari" lumb them all together into one bucket.

Well Said Sir!

[atarian63]

A comparision "games vs demos" doesn't make any sense. They are two entirely different things. And "A8 games vs C64 demos" makes even less sense.

 

FastRob, maybe you don't know but there are games on C64 aswell.

Probably does not care..

[potatohead]

The CvA topic is like a virus infecting all other threads. icon_smile.gif

 

It's a compliment to the A8 scene!

 

Seriously, we may grumble and get after it with one another, but I sure do like the people here.

 

Yes, you too RT.

[malducci]

I don't think one could be a good game programmer if one's orgin arent at the demoscene, simply because on demoscene coders push up the limits and proove that this or that could be done faster or done at all with given hardware.

 

I'm sorry, but I've got to call bullshit on that. You *need* to be from the demoscene to be a good game programmer? I'm assume you don't code.

 

Also if you could sum up one thing about demos, it's that they exploit the *hell* out a given situation to unrealistic levels. Be it a waste of memory (huge precalculated LUTs), 100% cpu resource, fixed whatever (graphic rendering, patterns,etc), and totally non-interactive situations. These demos aren't variable in nature like a game. Everything is fixed from a code and design point of view and demos coders exploit that to the very end. Are there cross overs between the two camps in relation to optimization? In some areas sure, but you don't need to be from the demoscene understand concepts relative to game design, music, special effects, and other related aesthetics when it comes to 'pushing' a machine. There are plenty of capable game or other coders that are not or do not come from the demoscene.

Edited February 24, 2009 by malducci

[drac030]

What I can't stand is just the totally wrong "knowledge" some people spread.

 

Okay, so I hope that you do the same to rectify the misconceptions C-64 people have about A8. Like that misconception, which made someone to start this thread (yet with the patronizing tone, LOL).

 

I was NOT saying "C64 crystals are better than A8 ones", I was saying: "both machines use PAL/NTSC tech crystals and because of that the crystals are more accurate than the average crystal used in computers".

 

What I am criticizing is your tendency to post "C-64 this" or "C-64 that", even when this is remotely irrelevant for the topic. You know, we don't care (these who do are probably reading some C-64 forum).