Best desoldering iron for NES modifications?

[GOTHCLAWZ]

I'm going to be making a switch which will complete the 'lockout' chip circuit, but which tools would be best suited for this task?

 

BTW: The picture below is not of my console, I own a European NES.

Edited April 23, 2009 by GOTHCLAWZ

[GroovyBee]

I'm going to be making a switch which will complete the 'lockout' chip circuit, but which tools would be best suited for this task?

You'll need the following tools:-

 

Soldering iron

Solder sucker

Solder

Long nose pliers

Side cutters

Multimeter

 

Components :-

Wire

A single pole double throw switch (SPDT)

[kaishaku]

I know it's not strictly canon, but I've always used the "soldering iron + wiggle + whack" method for desoldering

[Ian Primus]

Use whatever tools are familiar and comfortable to you. I personally prefer to use a standard pencil iron and a seperate desoldering pump, while others like the heated desoldering irons, and others use desoldering wick.

 

For such a simple mod, you really don't need a desoldering iron. You can just clip pin 4 flush with the board and bend it straight out, and solder to the stub of the pin on the chip, and the pad where it used to live.

 

-Ian

[GOTHCLAWZ]

You'll need the following tools:-

 

Soldering iron

Solder sucker

Solder

Long nose pliers

Side cutters

Multimeter

 

Components :-

Wire

A single pole double throw switch (SPDT)

 

Well, what is the cheapest possible method I could use, I mean, would taping both ends of the switch wire to it do the trick?

[Ian Primus]

Well, what is the cheapest possible method I could use, I mean, would taping both ends of the switch wire to it do the trick?

 

The cheapest possible method is to simply cut pin 4. That's it. No switch, no nothing. It's internally pulled down, so when disconnected, it'll disable the lockout entirely. The machine will then boot all cartridges.

 

If you really want to switch it on and off, then you need a switch, some wire, a soldering iron, some solder, and something to cut the pin with. A tiny pair of dikes (diagonal cutters) is ideal, but you can even use nail clippers.

 

If you would rather desolder the pin, then you can usually get away with heating the solder point and pulling the pin out with a bent safety pin or something - but I'd recommend clearing the solder out of the hole first, by using a solder sucker, desoldering pump, wick, whatever. Or just heat the connection and quickly whack the board on the table - if you do it right, the solder will come flying out.

 

-Ian

[Wickeycolumbus]

Well, what is the cheapest possible method I could use, I mean, would taping both ends of the switch wire to it do the trick?

 

The cheapest possible method is to simply cut pin 4. That's it. No switch, no nothing. It's internally pulled down, so when disconnected, it'll disable the lockout entirely. The machine will then boot all cartridges.

 

 

That is what I did, and it has not given me any problems. I would NOT advise taping the wires.

[GOTHCLAWZ]

The cheapest possible method is to simply cut pin 4. That's it. No switch, no nothing. It's internally pulled down, so when disconnected, it'll disable the lockout entirely. The machine will then boot all cartridges.

 

 

It won't boot ALL cartridges, that's why I need a switch.

 

If you really want to switch it on and off, then you need a switch, some wire, a soldering iron, some solder, and something to cut the pin with. A tiny pair of dikes (diagonal cutters) is ideal, but you can even use nail clippers.

 

But that can fry the chip & stop my NES from working.

 

If you would rather desolder the pin, then you can usually get away with heating the solder point and pulling the pin out with a bent safety pin or something - but I'd recommend clearing the solder out of the hole first, by using a solder sucker, desoldering pump, wick, whatever. Or just heat the connection and quickly whack the board on the table - if you do it right, the solder will come flying out.

 

-Ian

 

I don't want it to come flying out, just attach both ends of the pin to a switch. If it gets hot enough to bend the pin the chip itself can break.

 

That is what I did, and it has not given me any problems. I would NOT advise taping the wires.

 

Yeah, but if I wanted to just remove the pin I've get a screwdriver to hinge it out.

Edited April 23, 2009 by GOTHCLAWZ

[Wickeycolumbus]

The cheapest possible method is to simply cut pin 4. That's it. No switch, no nothing. It's internally pulled down, so when disconnected, it'll disable the lockout entirely. The machine will then boot all cartridges.

 

 

It won't boot ALL cartridges, that's why I need a switch.

 

What carts won't it boot?

[Prodos8]

The cheapest possible method is to simply cut pin 4. That's it. No switch, no nothing. It's internally pulled down, so when disconnected, it'll disable the lockout entirely. The machine will then boot all cartridges.

 

 

It won't boot ALL cartridges, that's why I need a switch.

 

What carts won't it boot?

The Nintendo World Championship carts.

[Ian Primus]

If you really want to switch it on and off, then you need a switch, some wire, a soldering iron, some solder, and something to cut the pin with. A tiny pair of dikes (diagonal cutters) is ideal, but you can even use nail clippers.

 

But that can fry the chip & stop my NES from working.

 

How can that fry the chip? I don't understand. You want to modify the console with a switch, but don't want to modify the console for fear of breaking it?

 

And if you do manage to kill the chip, you can just replace it - the same chip is used inside every licensed NES cartridge. Just steal one from Mario/Duck Hunt or something if you need one. But, again, it's _really_ going to be hard to break the chip.

 

I don't want it to come flying out, just attach both ends of the pin to a switch. If it gets hot enough to bend the pin the chip itself can break.

 

I can understand the deisre to not have molten solder flying around, but I don't understand the last part. How could you break the chip with the heat? Provided you don't use a blowtorch, you should be fine....

 

I don't understand what you're looking for here.

 

-Ian

[jamesk]

I'm going to be making a switch which will complete the 'lockout' chip circuit, but which tools would be best suited for this task?

You'll need the following tools:-

 

Soldering iron

Solder sucker

Solder

Long nose pliers

Side cutters

Multimeter

 

Components :-

Wire

A single pole double throw switch (SPDT)

Safety glasses

 

Just cut it.. nothing will explode

[GOTHCLAWZ]

What carts won't it boot?

 

My Nintendo World Championship cart for one... (I'm ordering a reformed one).

 

How can that fry the chip? I don't understand. You want to modify the console with a switch, but don't want to modify the console for fear of breaking it?

 

I want to modify it by putting a switch on pin 4, but in DT classes where I've soldered chips they said that if you do it for too long you can fry the chip, so how much heat can the lockout chip take?

Because the soldering will be right next to the chip.

 

And if you do manage to kill the chip, you can just replace it - the same chip is used inside every licensed NES cartridge. Just steal one from Mario/Duck Hunt or something if you need one.

 

Because then I wouldn't have a NES game.

 

But, again, it's _really_ going to be hard to break the chip.

 

Have you done this before by soldering pin 4?

 

I can understand the deisre to not have molten solder flying around, but I don't understand the last part. How could you break the chip with the heat? Provided you don't use a blowtorch, you should be fine....

 

Everything has a limit, I think chips have thinner circuitry inside which makes them more susceptible to melting & breaking.

 

I don't understand what you're looking for here.

 

-Ian

 

A way to solder without heating the chip, or knowing how much heat the chip can take. If you heat pin 4, you're going to heat what ever is attached to it.

Edited April 24, 2009 by GOTHCLAWZ

[keilbaca]

If you don't know how to solder at all, you can get a product called Wire glue.

 

It works great when you can't solder, but need something conductive. Perfect for replacing those SNES batteries.

 

Take a pair of dykes, cut pin 4 on the lockout chip, then pry it up a tad. Use wire glue to put a wire from the pin 4 to the switch, then from the other contact of the switch, to where it was connected to.

 

If you're really afraid of modifying, why not just get a second NES for the NWC cart, and cut the pin 4 on your current NES?

[GOTHCLAWZ]

If you don't know how to solder at all, you can get a product called Wire glue.

 

I love you.

[Ian Primus]

I want to modify it by putting a switch on pin 4, but in DT classes where I've soldered chips they said that if you do it for too long you can fry the chip, so how much heat can the lockout chip take?

Because the soldering will be right next to the chip.

 

It is possible to damage a chip by heating it. But it takes a lot of heating and a lot of careless. All chips are heated when soldered, all components are heated when soldered. These things will withstand a large amount of heat before being damaged. I routinely scavenge parts from junk boards with a heat gun (or a propane torch) - so far every chip scavenged has worked fine. Even a couple of 7404's I accidentally melted a bit. If you try, you could definitely damage a chip with a soldering iron, but in the couple of seconds you'll be heating it, there is no worry.

 

Have you done this before by soldering pin 4?

 

I have solderred to many, many chips. Many smaller than the lockout in an NES. I've done the pin 4 mod, but I never bothered to switch it (I don't have an NWC cart). I have installed similar circuits in different machines though. I routinely build cartridges, which involves a lot of chip-soldering, track cutting, pin bending, etc. Never damaged one yet. I once scavenged a lockout chip from an NES cart and soldered it into a Sachen game though, to get around that horribly faulty lockout-defeat circuit in that cart.

 

Everything has a limit, I think chips have thinner circuitry inside which makes them more susceptible to melting & breaking.

They _can_ be damaged. But again, it takes some doing. This stuff, especially the simple parts in a Nintendo, is actually quite hard to break. You'd be hard pressed to damage a chip while soldering to it.

 

A way to solder without heating the chip, or knowing how much heat the chip can take. If you heat pin 4, you're going to heat what ever is attached to it.

You're not going to be able to solder without heating. Yeah, you could probably tape the wires, but that's unlikely to hold up, and you are more liable to cause damage that way - by loose wires shorting things out. Not to mention the fact that it'll take longer to tape the wires right than to just solder them.

 

Here's what you do. Open the Nintendo and find the lockout chip. Using a pointy pair of wire cutters, clip pin 4 close to the board. Gently bend the pin out and up a bit. Use your soldering iron, and tin the pin you just bent, as well as the pad that it used to connect to with a small amount of solder. It shouldn't need to be heated for more than a second or two - if it does, you're doing it wrong...

 

Take some thin wire - I like to use 30gauge wire-wrapping wire for things like this, but wires from old ribbon cables work great too. Strip about an 1/8" off the end of two bits of wire. Tin the end of the wire with solder, and trim the wire a bit (the insulation will have shrunk back a bit from the heat). You want just enough exposed wire to fit on the connection, no more.

 

Heat the connection on the board where pin 4 used to go, and insert the end of a wire, then remove the iron and let it cool. Hold the wire still while the solder cools, lest you make a cold joint. Repeat with the upwards-bent pin.

 

Then, solder the other ends of the wires to a switch. When the switch is closed, the lockout is enabled. When the switch is open, it's disabled. Easy.

 

And here's another valuable tip. Never, ever, ever use that stupid "lead free" solder if you can possibly avoid it. You'll have no end of troubles making it flow and stick. Especially since you are trying to solder to parts that already have standard solder on them. For all electronic projects, you want standard 60/40 lead/tin rosin core solder (or similar). Likewise, never use the acid core plumber's solder, for obvious reasons...

 

-Ian

[Ian Primus]

If you don't know how to solder at all, you can get a product called Wire glue.

 

But the problem there is that you open yourself up to a very easy way to accidentally short things out. I don't want to go slopping conductive goo on things, trying to get a solid connection. With solder, it's easy to get it to flow and stick to a pad, it won't flow on non-solderable surfaces, and if you do bridge a connection, it's real easy to fix it - just heat both connections again, and the excess solder sticks to the iron.

 

These connections are small - I just don't see how conductive glue is going to be easier than soldering.

 

If you don't know how to solder, you're doing yourself a disservice. Take the time to sit down and practice on some junk electronics. It's really not that hard, and once you get the hang of it, you will have no problem.

 

Remember - solder isn't a glue. It's not a hot glue gun for metal. Heat the connection, not the solder. Heat the point you want to apply solder to - then flow the solder onto the hot component lead. This will allow the solder to flow onto the part and stick. You can't just drip hot solder onto something with the iron and expect it to stick.

 

Take apart some junk, practice soldering. You should have the hang of it in short order.

 

-Ian

[shadow460]

I actually desoldered the chip from the board with a 45 watt desoldering tool. I tore the sense out of the board when the old chip got stuck. A couple of traces came loose but didn't break off. I took the chip from one of my NES games and replaced it with that pin bent up.

 

I've done my share of soldering and desoldering. I have a 15 watt soldering iron and a 45 watt desoldering iron. I've had them both applied to the same joint before for various reasons, and I've probably run my hair dryer on the thing just to add to the fun. I'm sure the folks at the battery shop I go to have an iron that's a lot hotter, and they took it to several Game Boy carts without damaging those. I have never fried an IC by soldering on it too long. I socketed the graphics chip in my 7800, and it took me about 20 minutes to desolder it with that 45 watt iron. It was so hot that I could not hold it when it finally came off the board. I put the sockets in, set the chip, and the 7800 powered right up.

 

Don't worry about pulling a 10NES chip from one of your games. As long as it's not the NWC, you're cool. Having a lockout chip in SMB/Duck Hunt is a moot point with this mod. I can't tell you which of my games have lockouts and which do not. I wouldn't pull one from something rare like Stadium Events, but pulling one from a common cart just makes no difference.

 

We're talking about a completely worthless hunk of silicon in a dirt common console. It is impossible to jack the board up--if it weren't, my NES would be very dead. If you do slip and damage something, replace the board or the NES and you're good. Honestly, the hardest part here is getting to the chip. IMO, the NES is a pain in the rear to tear down.