why the bad rep?

[xg4bx]

ive heard alot of negative things about the 5200 over the years and i could never understand why. was it all based solely on the controllers? (which imo only take a minimum amount of effort to use correctly and prolong their lives-its sensitive, dont yank on it like an arcade stick).

 

why did this console fail? yes, its huge. but the graphics are awesome, it had alot of good games, etc. why did the 5200 die off?

[Mirage]

The controllers are such a personal issue... people either love them or hate them. I love them, and I firmly believe that a lot more people would like them if they gave them time to get used to them (still some people won't like them, that's fine). They were poorly constructed from a reliability standpoint, but there are modern solutions to fix all that. I think it's a fantastic system and can hold its own with any other console of the era.

[gdement]

People who didn't experience a working console at some point aren't going to feel any nostalgia for it, so those people will dismiss it.

 

I had a couple friends with 5200's when I was little. Neither of them were hooked up, they both told me the controllers were broken.

I convinced one of them to hook it up one day, and it was awesome compared to my 2600, but indeed the controllers didn't work so it was hard to get very excited.

 

If you're asking why it died off in the 80's, I think it was a combination of the market collapse and bad controllers. They really were a problem, even then. And people with broken controllers are likely to just put it away and stop buying games. If the system had held up, there would have been more people still interested in it when the market perked up later.

 

I thought the controllers looked cool though, and I still do. If they worked I might have gotten into it.

[+Random Terrain]

I played an Atari 5200 that was set up at Hills department store when the console was new. The controllers sucked because the sticks didn't snap back. I expected it to act like a thumbstick on an Xbox controller years before I ever saw a thumbstick and a lot of other people expected the same thing. If you want to play something like Pac-Man, you need the stick to snap back to the middle. And the 5200 controller just didn't feel right in your hand.

 

A few years later, it was weird using Nintendo controllers at first after using an Atari 2600 style joystick for years, but at least it was acceptable until better PlayStation/Xbox style controllers became available. The 5200 controller just made you want to find the guy who designed it and shove it up his butt so far that he could taste plastic.

[ovalbugmann]

I'd like to get a 5200 and a pair of the fixed Best-Electronics controllers for the system. I have one H6er and two 7800's right now. And I like those systems.

[+Cafeman]

Until the internet, I was not even aware the 5200 had a bad rep. Everybody I knew thought it was a great system. Including me! The controllers were not bad enough to us to hate the 5200.

[Ransom]

I've never really understood the reputation the 5200 developed. Sure, the first edition of the controllers had reliability problems, but I never experienced it on the system I originally owned -- which I played a lot! So I don't think it was as bad as people say. I've only experienced broken controllers buying resale. But Best Electronics has a permanent solution for that, so it's not a real problem.

 

The 5200's library is great. The games that use the linear tracking feature and/or the second button make it worth having even for a long-time Atari 8-bit computer enthusiast like me. And the trak-ball games...well, they're just fantastic!

 

That said, I think the bad rep stems from at least a few things. The ColecoVision blew it away with exciting, new games in 1982, whereas the 5200's library from a title standpoint seemed very stale. The controllers were unusual, so even if they were perfectly reliable, people were confused by them -- and then Electronic Games magazine and others really dumped on Atari about that (even though I've never had a problem playing games like Pac-Man with them) and as opinion leaders, they helped really shape people's views. And then finally, as classic videogame collecting got going in the early 90s, most of the 5200 controllers out there weren't working because their flex circuits had a layer of gunk on them and/or the contacts on the buttons had worn away. I figured out the eraser + tin foil trick back then, as I'm sure many others did, but I imagine most people just gave up in disgust.

[+LS650]

A couple of things:

- yes, the controllers are horrible. People can try to paint them with rosy colours, but they are awful. I was 13 or 14 when the 5200 was released, and I remember trying to play 5200 games with them. The controller was a complete turn-off to the machine.

- I think most folks who checked them out at the time thought "Why buy a 5200 game machine when I can buy a 'real computer' like the Atari 400 for the same price, and play more-or-less the same games?"

[Atari Dogs]

A couple of things:

- yes, the controllers are horrible. People can try to paint them with rosy colours, but they are awful. I was 13 or 14 when the 5200 was released, and I remember trying to play 5200 games with them. The controller was a complete turn-off to the machine.

- I think most folks who checked them out at the time thought "Why buy a 5200 game machine when I can buy a 'real computer' like the Atari 400 for the same price, and play more-or-less the same games?"

 

You have that right on the price. I am still amazed the the price of game systems were that much back in the day. You could buy a Wii for the same in nominal dollars for the same or less than a 5200. Even the price of games. I remember ET when it was first released was $40.00.

[Mirage]

A couple of things:

- yes, the controllers are horrible. People can try to paint them with rosy colours, but they are awful. I was 13 or 14 when the 5200 was released, and I remember trying to play 5200 games with them. The controller was a complete turn-off to the machine.

- I think most folks who checked them out at the time thought "Why buy a 5200 game machine when I can buy a 'real computer' like the Atari 400 for the same price, and play more-or-less the same games?"

 

The first is your opinion though. I to this day think the 5200 controllers are great, as do many people. Like I said in the previous post, it's total personal opinion, people either love it or hate it, but either way it's opinion and neither side is wrong.

 

I do think computers had a lot to do with it though. The C64 (sorry) is the reason I never got a new console past the 2600.

[+LS650]

Yes, it's opinion, but I think if you do any kind of poll or survey of gamers who have actually tried to use the non-centering analog, you'll find far more people who dislike the controller than like it.

 

If there had been some good 3rd-party controllers commonly available at the release, that might have made a big difference.

[Mirage]

Er, yeah, that could be... it's still opinion. I never said more people would like it than dislike it... that doesn't matter. I agree about the 3rd party controllers ... it may have made a difference. But I don't know, it had so many other things going against it, bad timing, mediocre marketing, not very compelling (at the time) launch titles, poor choice for a pack-in. I doubt the controllers alone doomed it, though they certainly went a long way toards it.

[Herbarius]

The controllers were unreliable, not very comfortable and not self-centering. The machine was pretty expensive, and it was very large/heavy. Also there was the game market crash and people buying home computers instead of game consoles, especially if words got through the 5200 was in fact a "disguised" Atari 400.

 

Propably the marketing wasn't good, either, this wasn't really Atari's best times...

It failed very hard, AFAIK it was never released in Europe, and as a result the library of games is pretty small.

 

Aftermarket popularity is propably quite low, too, because of the way better 7800, because it's virtually impossible to find working controllers today (without letting them be repaired) and because of the small library of games (and you cant play 2600 games on it). Also the original model uses a propietary switchbox which also includes the power supply for the 5200, so if that switchbox dies, you are left with a non-functional 5200, good luck finding a replacement.

[+Allan]

The controllers were unreliable, not very comfortable and not self-centering. The machine was pretty expensive, and it was very large/heavy. Also there was the game market crash and people buying home computers instead of game consoles, especially if words got through the 5200 was in fact a "disguised" Atari 400.

 

Propably the marketing wasn't good, either, this wasn't really Atari's best times...

It failed very hard, AFAIK it was never released in Europe, and as a result the library of games is pretty small.

 

Aftermarket popularity is propably quite low, too, because of the way better 7800, because it's virtually impossible to find working controllers today (without letting them be repaired) and because of the small library of games (and you cant play 2600 games on it). Also the original model uses a propietary switchbox which also includes the power supply for the 5200, so if that switchbox dies, you are left with a non-functional 5200, good luck finding a replacement.

A lot of false information in these couple a paragraphs but the biggest mistake was 'It failed very hard'. No it did not. It was not as successful as Atari wanted but it still did not 'fail very hard'.

 

Please go do some research.

 

Allan

Edited May 4, 2009 by Allan

[bohoki]

heres my 2 cents

 

yes it is the controllers fault all the games i wanted to play the controller made the game worse

 

frogger,frogger2, pitfall2,mr do,kangaroo,jungle junt

 

on certain games the controller was amazig like centipede,pole position,missile commmand,kaboom,star wars but i didnt play those games much

 

 

it was a revolutionary system when it came out but with revolutionary ideas there are some that just aren't used or enacted properly

 

2 firebuttons is awesome (when they work) moon patroll is amazing being able to jump and fire with button presses

but having to press fire to move like with the froggers and qbert is annoying

 

the autoswitchbox was amazing they wanted only one cord to go to the system and they figured out a way to do it

 

they didnt want anybody to see the fuzz when switching games well they did it (onfortunatly with mine the relay gets stuck and i have to tap it to go off the fuzz (so its kind of a (fonzie switch box aaaaaa)

 

but for some reason they thought that hey people will be playing games so long they dont want to miss a show so they will put it on pause and want to switch back to regular programming(which is true if you ever get to the second level of pitfall 2 so they put a switch on the switch box which is lame since its often behind the tv trapped in an entertainment center requiting a contortionist using a one legged stance hile stretching and wishing your arm had an extra elbow(i'm sure the higer ups were asking cant you just switch it back to tv when the person hits pause and the "engineers were like we'll get back to you(please hope they forget to ask about that again)"

 

4 players wow that was nearly dead on arrival if they would have had a warlords type game it would have survived but having the only 4 player game be super breakout where you take turns what the hell is the point except to have the lucky controller that actually works it woudl be like playing hungry hungry hippo but only one person is allowed to gobble balls at a time and the pink ones head is broken

 

the system is a computer but limiting it to just games is like givving someone a ferrari with no steering hey kids you can go as fast or slow as you want but just in the straight line we tell you to go

 

its freakin huge sure black is slimming but the system and games take up lots of square footage i'm talking 8 track tape kind of space

 

also its quality was way better but nobody cared 2600 5200 on the games that were fun the systems looked fairly comparable activision games mainly and since it didn't look as good as arcade games anyway they were all just similar versions to arcade games anyway not till the sega genesis did i actually feel hey this is looks good as the arcade

 

its kind of like today with dvd vs blueray and hd tv dvd looks good enough and regular definition tv looks good enough when it is all hoooked up good (i see lots of people with low singnal and interference and static ) so now with todays digital tv the antenna uses will loose the channels that used to come in really fuzzy but semi watchable but now wont have enough digital signal to make the box make a picture

 

sure hd is great but is it good enough is hyper hd around the corner if 2048 i comes out are people going to be saying how lame old hd was? oops i digressed on another subject

 

the 5200 system felt like an experimental aircraft fun to fly but too many other people were crashing

[Red 5]

I did not have a 5200 (or a 7800 for that matter) until I started 'collecting'.

 

To be honest, I never even touched one, saw one in person, or played a game on one

until I got mine about 8 or 9 years ago.

 

When I did, I have to admit that I was dissapointed. The graphics were impressive. The

machine looked great, gameplay of the games was wwwaaaaaaaayyyy better than the 2600 and

much closer to the arcade version, but, like others, I just could not deal with the controllers.

 

There is an exception. Space Dungeon and Robotron are fantastic with the stock controllers.

Absolutely awesome experience.

 

A few years back I got Competition Pro controllers, and since that day, I LOVE my 5200.

Throw in the track-ball controller and you're in heaven.

 

I would say it's impossible NOT to love the 5200 if you have a Track-Ball controller and a

Competition Pro controllers.

Edited May 4, 2009 by therealred5

[Bryan]

This kind of topic comes up a lot in here:

 

Was it a failure?, Why did it fail?, Was it good?, Was it bad?, Who likes the controllers?, Who hates the controllers?, What should have been different?, etc...

 

I like the 5200 as an artifact of early gaming, but it's clear Atari didn't have any real coherent plan to maintain their leadership position in the industry. They had tried and abandoned various approaches to the 2600's successor and in the end (and in a panic, it seems) they just stripped down their home computer, put it in a HUGE case, and made fragile and clumsy controllers that would work without requiring a PIA chip.

 

IMO, they should have been developing killer next-gen chips that could be used both in arcade machines and home consoles. If Atari were still run by gaming enthusiasts instead of Warner suits, I think it would have turned out differently.

[RangerG]

I second what Cafeman said. Until the Internet, I had no idea that the 5200 wasn't considered Atari's premier system (I also learned about the 7800 via the Internet). My cousin had a 5200 and we thought it was the high-end machine for years (until the NES and by then we had largely moved on from videogames). I have good memories of the 5200 and the controllers.

[Herbarius]

A lot of false information in these couple a paragraphs but the biggest mistake was 'It failed very hard'. No it did not. It was not as successful as Atari wanted but it still did not 'fail very hard'.

 

Sorry, I think it's a matter of perspective. Me living in Europe and seeing that a console was released in the US, wasn't very successful, so they didn't even bother to make a PAL version led me to that conclusion.

 

I already thought I had already done a lot of research in that respect (I've some friends who believe I learn Wikipedia Articles word-by-word ), but I'll go back and double-check.

Edited May 4, 2009 by Herbarius

[kroogur]

The controllers are in fact absolute garbage.

 

As evidenced in just this thread alone nearly everyone chimed in with their displeasure with the controllers.

 

I have systems ranging from my Odyssey2 to Fairchild to NES to 3D0 all the way to Wii and everything from 2600 to Jaguar and I have the original controllers for all of them and after all these years and gameplay they all still work fine except for the miserable 5200 controllers they are the only ones I have ever had to rebuild. Hell i even found the old remote for my Phillips CD-i and it still works fine and it was roasting and freezing in my attic for years.

 

It's not personal opinion to state the controllers are garbage it's fact and the history of these controllers back it up nicely, i dearly love my 5200 and i enjoy it quite a bit but if anything kills the enjoyment of the system it's those miserable controllers.

[Mirage]

The controllers are in fact absolute garbage.

 

As evidenced in just this thread alone nearly everyone chimed in with their displeasure with the controllers.

 

I have systems ranging from my Odyssey2 to Fairchild to NES to 3D0 all the way to Wii and everything from 2600 to Jaguar and I have the original controllers for all of them and after all these years and gameplay they all still work fine except for the miserable 5200 controllers they are the only ones I have ever had to rebuild. Hell i even found the old remote for my Phillips CD-i and it still works fine and it was roasting and freezing in my attic for years.

 

It's not personal opinion to state the controllers are garbage it's fact and the history of these controllers back it up nicely, i dearly love my 5200 and i enjoy it quite a bit but if anything kills the enjoyment of the system it's those miserable controllers.

 

It's a fact that they were unreliable and a bad design from that standpoint. But it's opinion whether once fixed (Best Gold etc) that they're bad. That's the distinction. One is arguable, the other isn't. That's the definition between fact and opinion. If it's my opinion that once fixed, they're nice controllers, and I like them, you can't argue with that, it's my opinion.

[kroogur]

The controllers are in fact absolute garbage.

 

As evidenced in just this thread alone nearly everyone chimed in with their displeasure with the controllers.

 

I have systems ranging from my Odyssey2 to Fairchild to NES to 3D0 all the way to Wii and everything from 2600 to Jaguar and I have the original controllers for all of them and after all these years and gameplay they all still work fine except for the miserable 5200 controllers they are the only ones I have ever had to rebuild. Hell i even found the old remote for my Phillips CD-i and it still works fine and it was roasting and freezing in my attic for years.

 

It's not personal opinion to state the controllers are garbage it's fact and the history of these controllers back it up nicely, i dearly love my 5200 and i enjoy it quite a bit but if anything kills the enjoyment of the system it's those miserable controllers.

 

It's a fact that they were unreliable and a bad design from that standpoint. But it's opinion whether once fixed (Best Gold etc) that they're bad. That's the distinction. One is arguable, the other isn't. That's the definition between fact and opinion. If it's my opinion that once fixed, they're nice controllers, and I like them, you can't argue with that, it's my opinion.

 

 

Oh I definitely agree with you there once fixed they are fine. My angle is they shouldn't need to have to be fixed in the first place and the extra expense and hassle of either rebuilding them yourself or sending them to Best is just a bit off putting for someone new to the system who is excited and just wants to play right away.

[Mirage]

The controllers are in fact absolute garbage.

 

As evidenced in just this thread alone nearly everyone chimed in with their displeasure with the controllers.

 

I have systems ranging from my Odyssey2 to Fairchild to NES to 3D0 all the way to Wii and everything from 2600 to Jaguar and I have the original controllers for all of them and after all these years and gameplay they all still work fine except for the miserable 5200 controllers they are the only ones I have ever had to rebuild. Hell i even found the old remote for my Phillips CD-i and it still works fine and it was roasting and freezing in my attic for years.

 

It's not personal opinion to state the controllers are garbage it's fact and the history of these controllers back it up nicely, i dearly love my 5200 and i enjoy it quite a bit but if anything kills the enjoyment of the system it's those miserable controllers.

 

It's a fact that they were unreliable and a bad design from that standpoint. But it's opinion whether once fixed (Best Gold etc) that they're bad. That's the distinction. One is arguable, the other isn't. That's the definition between fact and opinion. If it's my opinion that once fixed, they're nice controllers, and I like them, you can't argue with that, it's my opinion.

 

 

Oh I definitely agree with you there once fixed they are fine. My angle is they shouldn't need to have to be fixed in the first place and the extra expense and hassle of either rebuilding them yourself or sending them to Best is just a bit off putting for someone new to the system who is excited and just wants to play right away.

 

Okay, then we agree 100%. Very happy that people see the distinction. Yes, it's off putting. Heck, it put me off for a long time myself. It's a horrible shame it's such an expensive system to get into properly and it's more of a shame that BITD, people had to suffer controllers going bad for no reason they could understand. I wonder how many 5200's have been bought at garage sales over the years, then just tossed away because the controllers didn't work. Shame.

[AtariLeaf]

Its not just the controller issue which is annoying. I'll take the word of those who say its great once fixed but since I've never experience a fixed or working controller I can't say. The other problem is the sheer size of the unit. Why it needed to be that large is beyond me, not to mention the power supply and the god awful RF controller setup.

 

That being said, time and again, I keep coming back to the issue of even having to put up with a 5200 when you can simply get an 800xl and play pretty much the same exact games with a standard controller. No controller issues. You cut your realestate needed in half (or more) and you still get to play the same great games PLUS more since there are so many disk only games.

[jetset]

Said it before, I'll say it again. It's just a matter of practice. If you aren't all that good a gamer, you'll need more practice, and/or just give up on them. To me it's like the guy who can't break 100 bowling who blames the shoes... It always amazes me the bad rep the 5200 sticks get when there's so many MUCH worse controllers out there...The 7800, Colecovision, and Intellivision come to mind. Granted, the 5200 has reliability issues with the fire buttons, but really take that away and it's a far better controller than many of the controllers from the same era that get a pass.

The "why not get an Atari 800" argument is a fine one I suppose, although I don't remember there being a huge market for them back in the 80's, and honestly I didn't know they were the same price (they were right? otherwise if the 400/800 were much more $$ that argument goes down the crapper) either. Still since so many games for the current generation (360, PS3, Wii) are available in a PC version, would it stand to reason I should buy a pc instead in today's age?