why the bad rep?

[Mirage]

if only someone could make a frogger and frogger 2 hack that just used trigger values to move frog instead of direction then press button it is beyond annoying

 

 

If you have the Trak-Ball controller, you can use the keypads for Frogger. It's not really ideal, but it's maybe better than the stock 5200 controller, depending on your preference. I'm not sure if you can use the joystick keypad... I've never tried that. Probably not, seems like it would be hard to hold it and use it at the same time?

[82atari5200]

if only someone could make a frogger and frogger 2 hack that just used trigger values to move frog instead of direction then press button it is beyond annoying

 

 

If you have the Trak-Ball controller, you can use the keypads for Frogger. It's not really ideal, but it's maybe better than the stock 5200 controller, depending on your preference. I'm not sure if you can use the joystick keypad... I've never tried that. Probably not, seems like it would be hard to hold it and use it at the same time?

 

You can use the keypad on the controller. Makes the game a lot easier.

[Mirage]

You can use the keypad on the controller. Makes the game a lot easier.

 

Cool, thanks, my memory is beginning to fail me at my old age! It was only a few weeks ago I played it too, I should remember!

[Lord Thag]

I've never really understood all the control hate for the 5200. Sure, there are a few games that have shitty control, mainly the ones that used the stick for direct positioning (breakout, kaboom, gorf etc), but the rest control decent to great. Even the Pac-man games play well, or at least, I think they do.

 

Maybe it's a matter of time spent? I have spent a lot of hours with my 5200, and I find it one of the most enjoyable of the consoles from the era. The analog stick just takes some getting used to (rather like the intellivision and colecovision).

 

What isn't underrated is the poor reliability of the joysticks. Getting a refurbed one is mandatory if you plan on enjoying your 5200.

[+Random Terrain]

I've never really understood all the control hate for the 5200. Sure, there are a few games that have shitty control, mainly the ones that used the stick for direct positioning (breakout, kaboom, gorf etc), but the rest control decent to great. Even the Pac-man games play well, or at least, I think they do.

For me, it's not just the stick, it's the whole thing. It's anti-ergonomic. It's like they went out of their way to make an uncomfortable controller. The Atari 7800 controller is about as bad.

[Ransom]

I've never really understood all the control hate for the 5200. Sure, there are a few games that have shitty control, mainly the ones that used the stick for direct positioning (breakout, kaboom, gorf etc), but the rest control decent to great. Even the Pac-man games play well, or at least, I think they do.

For me, it's not just the stick, it's the whole thing. It's anti-ergonomic. It's like they went out of their way to make an uncomfortable controller. The Atari 7800 controller is about as bad.

 

And so is the Intellivision controller and the ColecoVision controller. It was a whole bad ergonomics thing they had going on back then.

 

(Actually, when I think about how far ergonomic design of common household items has come in the last 20 years, I'm amazed. Remember the old hand-crank can openers which had handles that were basically pieces of wire? Very hard on the hands. Now, you can get a nicely designed one by, for example, Oxo with big, rubber-coated handles. But just 30 years ago, no one thought twice about the crappy stuff we were using.)

[Artlover]

For me, it's not just the stick, it's the whole thing. It's anti-ergonomic. It's like they went out of their way to make an uncomfortable controller. The Atari 7800 controller is about as bad.

How exactly are you holding those 5200 sticks?

[+Random Terrain]

And so is the Intellivision controller and the ColecoVision controller. It was a whole bad ergonomics thing they had going on back then.

Yeah, I hated the Intellivision controller even more than the Atari 5200 controller. I don't remember using the ColecoVision controller, although I know I played a ColecoVision game or two at Hills department store. I also learned the hard way that ergonomic-looking doesn't always mean it will be the best thing ever. I thought the Epyx 500XJ Joystick was going to be the greatest thing in the world until I bought one and it gave me hand cramps.

Another disappointment.

 

 

I'm glad companies finally learned how to make a good controller.

 

 

Looks like we have the PlayStation to thank for getting us on the right path:

 

http://wii.kombo.com/article.php?artid=6355

[Mirage]

See, the Epyx 500XJ I always hear people saying is a horrible controller that gives them hand cramps, but it's one of my favorites too, just like the 5200 controller is. I'm beginning to think I'm just strange, or have deformed hands or something.

[atariron82]

You can use the keypad on the controller. Makes the game a lot easier.

 

Cool, thanks, my memory is beginning to fail me at my old age! It was only a few weeks ago I played it too, I should remember!

 

Frogger originally came with special directional overlays, which promoted keypad use:

Most of these are long lost and forgotten, but they certainly made for a different game.

[mcjakeqcool]

I hate the PS controler, it is too small and is shaped like a dogbone. My 3 favorite controlers are the Jag, Dreamcast and Xbox duke controlers, I know the Jag controler is a controversial choice cos of all the buttons, but that don't bother me, it's how comfatable the controler feels that matters, it really inhances gameplay.

[Bryan]

I've never really understood all the control hate for the 5200. Sure, there are a few games that have shitty control, mainly the ones that used the stick for direct positioning (breakout, kaboom, gorf etc), but the rest control decent to great. Even the Pac-man games play well, or at least, I think they do.

For me, it's not just the stick, it's the whole thing. It's anti-ergonomic. It's like they went out of their way to make an uncomfortable controller. The Atari 7800 controller is about as bad.

 

And so is the Intellivision controller and the ColecoVision controller. It was a whole bad ergonomics thing they had going on back then.

 

(Actually, when I think about how far ergonomic design of common household items has come in the last 20 years, I'm amazed. Remember the old hand-crank can openers which had handles that were basically pieces of wire? Very hard on the hands. Now, you can get a nicely designed one by, for example, Oxo with big, rubber-coated handles. But just 30 years ago, no one thought twice about the crappy stuff we were using.)

If you look at pre-crash controllers, it seemed that the emphasis was on how advanced the controller looked rather than how easy it was to use. IMO the CX40 is one of the rare exceptions. Today you have engineering teams and you have design teams, but back then I bet you usually had controllers the engineers thought were cool.

[Ransom]

If you look at pre-crash controllers, it seemed that the emphasis was on how advanced the controller looked rather than how easy it was to use. IMO the CX40 is one of the rare exceptions. Today you have engineering teams and you have design teams, but back then I bet you usually had controllers the engineers thought were cool.

 

Good point. I'll bet the marketing department had a lot of say as well.

[mcjakeqcool]

If it were'ent for the NES, Atari probally would'ent of switched to Joypads, but then, If it were'ent for the NES, Atari would probally still be the domient force in the console market, Atari or Coleco anyhow, one of the 2.

Edited May 14, 2009 by mcjakeqcool

[Atariman]

See, the Epyx 500XJ I always hear people saying is a horrible controller that gives them hand cramps, but it's one of my favorites too, just like the 5200 controller is. I'm beginning to think I'm just strange, or have deformed hands or something.

 

Nah, I like the 500XJ, too. Sometimes the clicking of the microswitches drives people crazy, though.

[Paranoid]

I'm sure long after Skynet has fried the earth and only AI walks the wasteland, Terminators will sit around and debate the merits and failures of the Atari 5200.

 

Seriously, there have been about a thousand threads on this here, and the same people weigh in with the same opinions each and EVERY time.

 

But, as an Acolyte of the Temple of the 5200, that isn't going to prevent me from doing the same, myself.

 

I think someone mentioned above, "if you didn't use it originally, you're not going to have the nostalgia for it, and you're not going to get it".

 

There may be a lot to this. The 5200, in retrospect, is ALL about nostalgia for me. Almost every title available for it is, at least NOW, available for the Atari 8 bit, or for emulation, either of which makes for a more reliable, less hassle solution to playing these particular titles. It is one of the few consoles where the whole THING takes me back to early 80s. The carts, the inserts, the labels, the black and chrome, the future-nuevo Buck Rogers Battlestar Galactica design...

 

But, most times when I want to play a 5200 game, I bust out emulation *or* the Atari 8 bit.

 

The *only* titles that are superior on 5200 *are* the games that were designed with control that benefits directly from the analog controllers. Missle Command, Centipede, and a few others, most notably IMHO, Counterstrike - which is the difinitve game of this console, also, IMHO. It captures the early 80s cold-war vibe, really benefits from the multi-button, analog joysticks, and doesn't port wel to other platforms. But there again, a lot of Counterstrike is, to me, nostalgia. The game is great, but isn't the best designed game. You can play virtually forever just by guessing codes. It also goes from boringly easy to incredibly difficult (you HAVE to do the codes past the first couple/few levels to survive). On the other hand, the graphics are great, and a little more game balance would have made it a true classic. LLL OOO LLL LOO OLL LEO OOL blah blah blah... there aren't a tremendous amount of codes, and if you get the first one or two, you'll be hard pressed not to get the code in time - especially if you are methodical about entering the combos.

 

I think of the 5200 now as Atari 8 bit family PC. A evolutionary dead end of the Atari 400 - which is exactly what it is. I prefer the brilliant, sparkling, crisp graphics and clean sounds to the flat, NES like graphics of the 7800 which came after - but that applies across the 8 bit PC line for Atari PCs. The A800XL is better than a 7800, and so, by default, so is the A5200.

 

And the sticks, which are miserable for a game like Pac Man, make certain games really rise to a new level.

 

I think the QIX 5200 is also better than the A8bit Qix, too. But again, ported. Robotron, ported... Spyhunter... ported...

 

Adventure II... 5200 only still, right?!?

 

Otherwise, the 5200, like the ET cart and 2600 Pac Man, has gotten tagged with a reputation in the media where any time there is a retro article, someone will trot it out just to beat it down. I don't think there is any question that the Atari 2600 Pac Man startup sound and rubber-band boing is one of the most recognized samples used in media to denote "video games". I'm not sure if it is a failure if it is that recognizable in the public's conscious. Same thing applies for the 5200 (and I guess, by default, the Edsel, which is infamous and immortal, while many other "better" cars have been forgotten along the way). Usually I get the feeling that the authors who write these 5200 articles are just going on hearsay, and that at this point, there is more of that going around than actual *experience*. Among those that remain, I think a lot of people who had a 5200 as kids were understandably disappointed, blaming the controllers for a bad experience (which they were responsible for), without realizing that there were solutions and improvements. If the 5200 hadn't been released when it was, and things hadn't gone the way they did in the industry, I'm sure there would have been revisions and improvements that overcame the original issues.

 

But all those things coming together mean that the 5200 will always be misunderstood except by those who truly came to love the console. And I absolutely count myself among that crowd.

[mellis]

<snip>

But all those things coming together mean that the 5200 will always be misunderstood except by those who truly came to love the console. And I absolutely count myself among that crowd.

 

Well stated.

 

I count myself among those who adore the 5200, so that makes at least two of us.

[mcjakeqcool]

I like the 5200 aswell, though I do think that it would be good if the titles for it were accuatly UNIQUE TO THE 5200, instead of better graphic versions of 2600 games.

[carmel_andrews]

At least the 5200 faired better (sales wise) then the XEGS (a later version of the 5200 but with a keyboard)

 

did the 5200 come with a built in game like the xegs did (or just a pack in one)

[atariron82]

At least the 5200 faired better (sales wise) then the XEGS (a later version of the 5200 but with a keyboard)

 

did the 5200 come with a built in game like the xegs did (or just a pack in one)

 

It would have been a great idea, but unfortunately no. The 5200 was originally launched with Super-Breakout as the pack-in game, which turned out to be a Dud for initial sales. Things picked up after Pac-man replaced SB as the pack-in cart. Atari might have even trounced the competition, had they launched the Super System with Super-Breakout built in and the Pac-man cart as a bonus game. One can only imagine...

 

Interesting thing about the XEGS; it was a 'rare bird' here in the states from the get-go. I remember seeing one tucked away on the top shelf next to a couple of 7800s, in the back of an electronics boutique in the mall ca 1987. All the NES junk was in the front of the store. It seems Atari was unable to cut through the successful marketing juggernaut that was Nintendo.

[Poopopyo]

Maybe the was a bigger ratio of people who hated the system (mainly controllers) to people who hated it. I love the system. It just looks cool because of the hugeness, silver strip, and the closet in the back. The 5200 looks like it gobbles down Sega Genesese (plural of genesis) as humans do pez.

[carmel_andrews]

I'm still surprised that they nixed the idea of a european release, that could have saved the console and not only that, it might have engendered interest in games development for the A8 (especially in the UK)

 

not that warner's were at all interested in properly marketing there wares in euroland that is

 

I am ofcourse referring to the 5200, not the XEGS

Edited May 18, 2009 by carmel_andrews

[mcjakeqcool]

Yeah I agree. Not releaceing the 5200 in Europe was the most stupid decision Atari made, and they made a couple. Being from the uk, I had to get my Atari 5200 imported via eBay.

[shadow460]

I can't say why the console wasn't more successful, but I can say why I haven't played mine more.

 

I've owned three 5200 consoles, all four ports. Two that I had played as a kid were given to me, but one never got used again. I'd have played them, but the switchbox was fried and I could not locate a replacement. This was before ebay's heyday.

 

The third has not had a switchbox since I've owned it, either. I power modded it, then played. Over time the controls have slowly failed. One is totally non working now, and the other is not far behind. I have read that many of the controls were either DOA or died within a couple of months.

 

Now if I'd spent over $200 on a new game console and the controllers kept breaking, I'd be pretty ticked. I'd probably go buy third party controls to play it with (anyone got a Wico stick and keypad they wanna sell?). If they weren't available, I'd probably return the entire console.

 

BTW, my favorite pre crash controller is a CX-10, and my favorite post crash controller is an SCPH-1180 "Dual Analog" controller that has the red and green modes. Anytime the 2600 or the PS1 are out, those controllers are either in use or right at hand.

[doctorclu]

I was wondering about this but never tried: I have 8-bit centipede and the atari trackball. Does this trackball work with centipede? I love it with missile command but never tried it with centipede. I agree that the trackball is so much better than a joystick for certain games like centipede.

No, A8 Centipede doesn't have a Trak-Ball mode like the 5200 version.

 

What games feature the track ball again? I have one, I know of Missile Command and Centipede, but other than that, not sure of others.