Plans for new kernals?

[Animan]

Don't get me wrong, the current two kernals aren't bad, but sometimes, i feel like wanting to have more variety. I was just wondering if any new kernals for bB are being made, or will be made.

[+Random Terrain]

Don't get me wrong, the current two kernel aren't bad, but sometimes, i feel like wanting to have more variety. I was just wondering if any new kernel for bB are being made, or will be made.

I hoped that some clever dude or dudette would have made all kinds of kernels by now for different types of games such as maze games, platform games, Space Invader type games, driving games and more. You'd choose the kernel for the style of game you want to make and your game would look better than normal because you're using a kernel made specifically for your type of game.

[Animan]

Don't get me wrong, the current two kernel aren't bad, but sometimes, i feel like wanting to have more variety. I was just wondering if any new kernel for bB are being made, or will be made.

I hoped that some clever dude or dudette would have made all kinds of kernels by now for different types of games such as maze games, platform games, Space Invader type games, driving games and more. You'd choose the kernel for the style of game you want to make and your game would look better than normal because you're using a kernel made specifically for your type of game.

Your right, why hasn't there been any? I would make one, but i suck at ASM.

[+Random Terrain]

You're right, why hasn't there been any? I would make one, but I suck at ASM.

Probably because if you're good enough to make a useful kernel, you don't need batari Basic. We need some assembly language wizards who may not need to use batari Basic, but love that bB exists. Nice, helpful asm masters who want to help lowly bB users make better games.

 

In other words, we need more people like SeaGtGruff.

Edited July 8, 2009 by Random Terrain

[Animan]

You're right, why hasn't there been any? I would make one, but I suck at ASM.

Probably because if you're good enough to make a useful kernel, you don't need batari Basic. We need some assembly language wizards who may not need to use batari Basic, but love that bB exists. Nice, helpful asm masters who want to help lowly bB users make better games.

 

In other words, we need more people like SeaGtGruff.

I got a cloning machine laying around...

[GroovyBee]

I would make one, but i suck at ASM.

The only way you get better at computer languages is practice, practice, practice. Have a look at Andrew Davie's tutorial for a good starting point on VCS programming.

[+batari]

Kernel options are basically conditional assembly directives that will create distinct kernels. Depending on the combination of kernel options, one of (IIRC) 28 kernels will be built, so it's not quite accurate to refer to the standard kernel as just one kernel.

 

The multisprite kernel doesn't have the same sort of kernel options, so you can consider it a single kernel. The multisprite kernel and the (unfinished) text kernel were written by vdub_bobby (and he also helped with an early version of the standard kernel.) The reason I have not added the text kernel or written any new kernels is because fully adapting the multisprite kernel to bB proved to be a monstrous task.

 

That said, there are simpler ways in which you can use custom kernels with bB. There are four levels of implementation that I can see (expanded from three):

 

Level 1: Inline asm. This is the least efficient way to do it, and I only recommend it for simple kernels like title screens.

 

Level 2: Included with the "inline" command. The kernel will be called by a gosub instead of a drawscreen. The kernel uses standard bB variables and structures where applicable and preserves user variables, but performs some task that is not otherwise possible with the built-in kernels. The standard kernel will still be present and available.

 

Level 3: Modularization. That is, add enough hooks so the bB code can access it with drawscreen. The standard kernel will be replaced. The kernel may or may not use standard bB variables and structures. It uses an includesfile that may forgo the standard equates (2600basic.h) and specifies custom headers and assembly files to support the kernel while maintaining (at a minimum) the normal set of user and temp variables. The kernel may be selected with a single line (includesfile mykernel.inc.)

 

Level 4: Full native support by modifying bB source code itself to produce custom code to support the kernel, as well as that mentioned in level 3. It gives the highest level of functionality but is by far the hardest to do. Most likely, you'll have to wait for me to do this. I'm unlikely to do it unless the kernel is capable of a wide variety of games, and also unlikely to get to it soon because it's so much work.

 

I have been thinking about adding the text kernel as a "level 2" implementation rather than level 3 or 4.

[Animan]

I would make one, but i suck at ASM.

The only way you get better at computer languages is practice, practice, practice. Have a look at Andrew Davie's tutorial for a good starting point on VCS programming.

I had begun trying to use ASM, but eventually i realized i might as well use bB as a starting point, then go from there.

[yuppicide]

I love SeaGt. He's very knowledgable. I'm often wondering why I don't see him programming games.

 

For my Skull Island puzzle game I have a custom ASM kernel that draws a special screen for me using sdata statements. I can store a whole level in 25 bytes and my game has 40 levels total. In addition to that the regular bB drawsceen still works so I can do my other stuff like title screens and what not.

[CurtisP]

I've considered writing a whole new kernel to allow writing tile and card games. The playfield and sprites would be replaced with 5 rows of 8 tiles each each tile would be eight or nine pixels wide and eight lines high). Each tile would have an individual shape, chosen from a table of up to 256 shapes (basically a character generator). I have also thought about allowing a selectable background color (either COLUBK or COLUPF) for each tile.

 

Is this something people would be interested in?

[+Random Terrain]

I've considered writing a whole new kernel to allow writing tile and card games. The playfield and sprites would be replaced with 5 rows of 8 tiles each each tile would be eight or nine pixels wide and eight lines high). Each tile would have an individual shape, chosen from a table of up to 256 shapes (basically a character generator). I have also thought about allowing a selectable background color (either COLUBK or COLUPF) for each tile.

 

Is this something people would be interested in?

There could be all kinds of games you could make with that. Seems like it would be a good kernel to have.

[Animan]

I've considered writing a whole new kernel to allow writing tile and card games. The playfield and sprites would be replaced with 5 rows of 8 tiles each each tile would be eight or nine pixels wide and eight lines high). Each tile would have an individual shape, chosen from a table of up to 256 shapes (basically a character generator). I have also thought about allowing a selectable background color (either COLUBK or COLUPF) for each tile.

 

Is this something people would be interested in?

Sounds cool!

[yuppicide]

Yes, Curtis that sounds very interesting.

 

It should have some kind of options as well..

[jrok]

I've considered writing a whole new kernel to allow writing tile and card games. The playfield and sprites would be replaced with 5 rows of 8 tiles each each tile would be eight or nine pixels wide and eight lines high). Each tile would have an individual shape, chosen from a table of up to 256 shapes (basically a character generator). I have also thought about allowing a selectable background color (either COLUBK or COLUPF) for each tile.

 

Is this something people would be interested in?

 

 

That sounds very, very cool Curtis.

 

You know, that might be an interesting template for all kinds of games, up to and including strategy board games and RPGs. How much vertical separation and horizontal separation do you think there would need to be between each tile?

Edited July 12, 2009 by jrok

[+Random Terrain]

Speaking of new kernels, I'd like to be able to have a lot of numbers on the screen. I'd only need 0 through 31 for each number, but more would be fine with me. I'd like to be able to do stuff like this and more:

 

	 4
 20 - 30 >

12
< 5 - 17

 

If I could have a lot of numbers on the screen at the same time, more than that example, I could make a couple of new tools to help with making games.

Edited July 17, 2009 by Random Terrain

[CurtisP]

I've considered writing a whole new kernel to allow writing tile and card games. The playfield and sprites would be replaced with 5 rows of 8 tiles each each tile would be eight or nine pixels wide and eight lines high). Each tile would have an individual shape, chosen from a table of up to 256 shapes (basically a character generator). I have also thought about allowing a selectable background color (either COLUBK or COLUPF) for each tile.

 

Is this something people would be interested in?

 

 

That sounds very, very cool Curtis.

 

You know, that might be an interesting template for all kinds of games, up to and including strategy board games and RPGs. How much vertical separation and horizontal separation do you think there would need to be between each tile?

 

It turns out that rows of six sprites is much easier to do. I could do up to eight rows pretty easily, but six rows looks best. For now I'm going with loose spacing, but putting them right next to each other might also be possible.

 

Here is a static example of what this would look like.

tiles.bin

[+Random Terrain]

It turns out that rows of six sprites is much easier to do. I could do up to eight rows pretty easily, but six rows looks best. For now I'm going with loose spacing, but putting them right next to each other might also be possible.

 

Here is a static example of what this would look like.

[jrok]

I've considered writing a whole new kernel to allow writing tile and card games. The playfield and sprites would be replaced with 5 rows of 8 tiles each each tile would be eight or nine pixels wide and eight lines high). Each tile would have an individual shape, chosen from a table of up to 256 shapes (basically a character generator). I have also thought about allowing a selectable background color (either COLUBK or COLUPF) for each tile.

 

Is this something people would be interested in?

 

 

That sounds very, very cool Curtis.

 

You know, that might be an interesting template for all kinds of games, up to and including strategy board games and RPGs. How much vertical separation and horizontal separation do you think there would need to be between each tile?

 

It turns out that rows of six sprites is much easier to do. I could do up to eight rows pretty easily, but six rows looks best. For now I'm going with loose spacing, but putting them right next to each other might also be possible.

 

Here is a static example of what this would look like.

 

Holy cow

 

Fantastic!

[bongomeno]

would a text only displaying kernal be possible? kinda like basic programming?

[+Random Terrain]

It turns out that rows of six sprites is much easier to do. I could do up to eight rows pretty easily, but six rows looks best. For now I'm going with loose spacing, but putting them right next to each other might also be possible.

Would it also be possible to do a similar thing with multicolored sprites?

 

Here's another thing I wish could be possible in a new kernel. It has to do with the score. Would it be possible for the score to only show the digits used so far? If the score is 10, only 10 would be shown instead of 000010. If the score is 8,000, only 8,000 would be shown instead of 008000. And added to that, could a comma be added once the score hits the thousands? For example, instead of 100742 we would see 100,742.

[SeaGtGruff]

would a text only displaying kernal be possible? kinda like basic programming?

Yes, I'm working on a flicker-blinds kernel that could be used for text or for hi-res "bitmapped" title screens.

 

Michael

[Richi_S]

Is there a need for In Game Music?

 

 

Because I`m thinking of developing a simplified Batari version fo my In Game Sound engine.

[SeaGtGruff]

Is there a need for In Game Music?

 

 

Because I`m thinking of developing a simplified Batari version fo my In Game Sound engine.

Excellent! Don't ask if there's a need, just assume that there is, and then fill it! I think you'll find the batari Basic programming community to be very appreciative of any new kernels, mini-kernels, include files, customizations, or programming examples that you care to post.

 

I haven't reviewed your In Game Sound Engine yet, but for batari Basic programming purposes you might want to put the music-playing routine in a "vblank" routine that has its own special include file, and maybe have a couple of simple control settings (i.e., variables or flags), such as a setting to stop playing all sounds, another to select which sound or tune to play (and on which audio channel), etc. As for the actual data, batari Basic has a sequential data statement (sdata) that should be ideal for defining the data for the various notes in a tune. Basically, anything you can do to make it as "brainless and painless" as possible for people to add your music engine into their batari Basic programs will be a good idea.

 

Michael

[+Random Terrain]

Is there a need for In Game Music?

Because I`m thinking of developing a simplified Batari version fo my In Game Sound engine.

Excellent! Don't ask if there's a need, just assume that there is, and then fill it! I think you'll find the batari Basic programming community to be very appreciative of any new kernels, mini-kernels, include files, customizations, or programming examples that you care to post.

Yep, happy for all tools, programming tips, kernels, and so on that we can get.

 

 

Basically, anything you can do to make it as "brainless and painless" as possible for people to add your music engine into their batari Basic programs will be a good idea.

"Brainless and painless" is exactly what I'm looking for.

 

I forget too much of what I learn, so the easier something is to use, the better.

[Dan Iacovelli]

I would like to have the text kernel so I can at least do a title screen for my game.

it is impossible to do it in multisprite kernel since the the playfield is mirrored .