Atariage got it wrong. No hard feelings though!

[Albert]

Checking to see if it's a full moon tonight.

 

..Al

Well, wouldn't you know, it sure as heck is..

 

http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/MoonPhase.php#y2009

 

..Al

[Shannon]

The Atari 7800 began shipping in the CA and NY markets on May 17, 1984, end of story. During June, the El Paso assembly plant had another 5,000 additional units built and ready to ship with parts for 40,000 units to be built when the Tramiels pulled the plug in July 1984 - (this comes from Brad Saville -head of Atari manufacturing who personally oversaw the new Atari 7800 assembly lines in El Paso and documents I have on file)

 

Anyone wanna argue with ME about it?!?!?

 

 

 

Curt

Boy.... post a few sourcecodes for 7800 games and all of a sudden we are bossy!

 

So what games did those poor suckers in CA and NY have available to them for the two years that the Tramiels had the 7800 on ice?

 

Musta sucked...

[2600Lives]

Yes, I do want to argue about it. I scolded McJake about using wiki as a reference, and you march in here like you have the biggest dick in the world pretending to be an all knowing god.

 

I'll say this much. Curt sure as HELL knows more about Atari than you ever will, and that's a fact. He's been involved with Atari for a very damn long time. I take it you've seen the Atari Flashback consoles, eh? Yeah, that was Curt right there. So, instead of him getting on some sort of dumbass rollercoaster statement I didn't understand, why don't you shut the hell up and defer to someone who's actually worked in the industry?

 

Trust me, running your mouth at the industry veterans is NOT going to win you friends here, buddy.

[Gorf]

This very topic makes my balls itch.

 

The thread starter is a known Atari hatuh!

 

Probably a Nintendo fan who's NES broke.

 

Now he's board so what does he do? Fuck with

the Atari crowd.

Edited July 22, 2009 by Gorf

[Snider-man]

For what it's worth, every magazine and journal I've ever worked for does not allow wikipedia attribution for any fact due to its fluidity. Any "fact" can be altered at any time and using it as a source is ill-advised. Yes, wiki is incredibly useful for research and for confirmation, but as an initial attributed source? No, no, no. I can't tell you how many times I've been looking up some random piece of info and I'll stumble across a randomly vandalized wiki entry. Colbert makes light of this fact himself all of the time on his show.

 

So saying "I saw it on wikipedia" is the equivalent of "I heard it from a guy who heard it from his sister's boyfriend who said he knew a guy who said it was true!"

[Poopopyo]

Ugh.. I thought mcjakeqcool was on moderator preview..

 

..and apparently brandonwright needs to be also.

 

Dammit! I tried doing a shits and giggles post with hidden white text to show it was a joke and none of you have found out!

 

 

Now all of you hate me

 

I saw the white text.

[GroovyBee]

Beware of hidden messages in posts!

Thats what "spoiler tags" are for.

[Curt Vendel]

You make the perfect point, the test market release of the NES was considered its release date, same with the test market for Lynx and Jag 64's. The only difference was a management change and the continued production was halted on the 7800 and restarted in 1986.

 

Curt

 

Perhaps I'm going on a tangent, but this is something that always bugs me about the supposed 1985 "release" of the NES. It's inconsistent to make that claim while saying the 7800 wasn't released until 1986. Either test markets count, or they don't. And I think by normal convention they don't.

 

The "1985" NES was just a test market in the last couple weeks of December in a few stores in New York City. ie it hardly existed at all, hardly anybody even saw one then, and it certainly wouldn't qualify as a "release".

Further test markets continued in 1986. They didn't finally release the NES on a large scale until about mid-1986. (full disclosure: I read that on wikipedia -5 pts)

I'm sort of amused how many people in places like youtube claim to remember getting their NES in 1985. Yeah there's a few people who got one then, but not as many as the people who claim to remember it now.

I think people's minds have been twisted because all the accessories say "©Nintendo 1985" on them.

 

It's awesome that AtariAge automatically converts ( c ) to a legally correct © symbol. +10pts to atariage.

[Curt Vendel]

"scuse me whiles I puts this away..."

 

 

I am not referencing Wiki, my facts come straight from the very people who made the product and I operate under the "trust but verify" for history - I always get 2 or more confirmations of historical fact, this case I always checked with Gary Rubio Lead EE on Project, Ken Howden - Mechanical Design and 20 GCC Engineers and programmers, so I can tell you for a fact that data is 100% correct and very well verified.

 

 

 

Curt

 

The Atari 7800 began shipping in the CA and NY markets on May 17, 1984, end of story. During June, the El Paso assembly plant had another 5,000 additional units built and ready to ship with parts for 40,000 units to be built when the Tramiels pulled the plug in July 1984 - (this comes from Brad Saville -head of Atari manufacturing who personally oversaw the new Atari 7800 assembly lines in El Paso and documents I have on file)

 

Anyone wanna argue with ME about it?!?!?

 

 

 

Curt

Yes, I do want to argue about it. I scolded McJake about using wiki as a reference, and you march in here like you have the biggest dick in the world pretending to be an all knowing god. I never denied that you were wrong. Get your mental rollercoaster under control and be civil.

 

 

Did my post sound a little hypocritical???

Edited July 22, 2009 by Curt Vendel

[chrisbid]

Perhaps I'm going on a tangent, but this is something that always bugs me about the supposed 1985 "release" of the NES. It's inconsistent to make that claim while saying the 7800 wasn't released until 1986. Either test markets count, or they don't. And I think by normal convention they don't.

 

The "1985" NES was just a test market in the last couple weeks of December in a few stores in New York City. ie it hardly existed at all, hardly anybody even saw one then, and it certainly wouldn't qualify as a "release".

Further test markets continued in 1986. They didn't finally release the NES on a large scale until about mid-1986. (full disclosure: I read that on wikipedia -5 pts)

I'm sort of amused how many people in places like youtube claim to remember getting their NES in 1985. Yeah there's a few people who got one then, but not as many as the people who claim to remember it now.

I think people's minds have been twisted because all the accessories say "©Nintendo 1985" on them.

 

It's awesome that AtariAge automatically converts ( c ) to a legally correct © symbol. +10pts to atariage.

 

 

agreed, and the NES really didn't take off until 1988. it lingered in the "a few cool kids have one" status for quite a long time. if i had to make a definitive date of nintendo going mainstream, i would make it the fall of 1988 with the release of the first issue of nintendo power.

[frogstar_robot]

Yes, I do want to argue about it. I scolded McJake about using wiki as a reference, and you march in here like you have the biggest dick in the world pretending to be an all knowing god. I never denied that you were wrong. Get your mental rollercoaster under control and be civil.

 

 

Did my post sound a little hypocritical???

 

Um. Just so you know in case you didn't but Curt is A and pretty much THE:

 

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/admin.htm

 

Besides which he definitely knows his stuff.

[Albert]

I updated the 7800 History page to mention that the 7800 was released in limited quantities in the test markets of California and New York and that the plug was pulled when the Tramiels took over.

 

..Al

[darthkur]

So what games did those poor suckers in CA and NY have available to them for the two years that the Tramiels had the 7800 on ice?

 

 

 

I'd like to know that myself. Could not have been many of them I would assume.

[+save2600]

This thread was pretty interesting. And ahem... arguing with Curt is a douchebag move.

 

But if you're asking what games were released during the "test market" phase of '84,

maybe the © dates on some of the game cartridges would be an indication?

 

Anyway, I remember selling electronics at a test or "concept" Montgomery Ward store

back in Niles (Chicago), IL. We had a LARGE display of 7800 systems bulk stacked next

to the TG-16 and were priced at around $80 (less than half of what the 16-bit systems

were selling for).

 

Pole Position was the pack-in, but just about every system we sold, a copy of Galaga went with it.

 

Atari really seemed to have their shit together back then. The Portfolio & Lynx were hot sellers

too (I knew of NO ST dealers, but plenty of Amiga ones).

[BDW]

Yes, I do want to argue about it. I scolded McJake about using wiki as a reference, and you march in here like you have the biggest dick in the world pretending to be an all knowing god.

 

I'll say this much. Curt sure as HELL knows more about Atari than you ever will, and that's a fact. He's been involved with Atari for a very damn long time. I take it you've seen the Atari Flashback consoles, eh? Yeah, that was Curt right there. So, instead of him getting on some sort of dumbass rollercoaster statement I didn't understand, why don't you shut the hell up and defer to someone who's actually worked in the industry?

 

Trust me, running your mouth at the industry veterans is NOT going to win you friends here, buddy.

 

 

 

 

"scuse me whiles I puts this away..."

 

 

I am not referencing Wiki, my facts come straight from the very people who made the product and I operate under the "trust but verify" for history - I always get 2 or more confirmations of historical fact, this case I always checked with Gary Rubio Lead EE on Project, Ken Howden - Mechanical Design and 20 GCC Engineers and programmers, so I can tell you for a fact that data is 100% correct and very well verified.

 

 

 

Curt

 

The Atari 7800 began shipping in the CA and NY markets on May 17, 1984, end of story. During June, the El Paso assembly plant had another 5,000 additional units built and ready to ship with parts for 40,000 units to be built when the Tramiels pulled the plug in July 1984 - (this comes from Brad Saville -head of Atari manufacturing who personally oversaw the new Atari 7800 assembly lines in El Paso and documents I have on file)

 

Anyone wanna argue with ME about it?!?!?

 

 

 

Curt

Yes, I do want to argue about it. I scolded McJake about using wiki as a reference, and you march in here like you have the biggest dick in the world pretending to be an all knowing god. I never denied that you were wrong. Get your mental rollercoaster under control and be civil.

 

 

Did my post sound a little hypocritical???

 

 

Yes, I do want to argue about it. I scolded McJake about using wiki as a reference, and you march in here like you have the biggest dick in the world pretending to be an all knowing god. I never denied that you were wrong. Get your mental rollercoaster under control and be civil.

 

 

Did my post sound a little hypocritical???

 

Um. Just so you know in case you didn't but Curt is A and pretty much THE:

 

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/admin.htm

 

Besides which he definitely knows his stuff.

 

 

This thread was pretty interesting. And ahem... arguing with Curt is a douchebag move.

 

But if you're asking what games were released during the "test market" phase of '84,

maybe the © dates on some of the game cartridges would be an indication?

 

Anyway, I remember selling electronics at a test or "concept" Montgomery Ward store

back in Niles (Chicago), IL. We had a LARGE display of 7800 systems bulk stacked next

to the TG-16 and were priced at around $80 (less than half of what the 16-bit systems

were selling for).

 

Pole Position was the pack-in, but just about every system we sold, a copy of Galaga went with it.

 

Atari really seemed to have their shit together back then. The Portfolio & Lynx were hot sellers

too (I knew of NO ST dealers, but plenty of Amiga ones).

 

 

 

This is how I felt when I read your posts.

Except I was the director.

 

I'm never doing the white text move again.

Edited July 22, 2009 by brandondwright

[carmel_andrews]

Whilst no one is perfect, i would bite of anyones hands if there wasn't an element of truth in what either atariage or CV say's in relation to atari related topics, especailly when atariage and CV get there information first hand and probably from the very people involved in the situation (in this case Atari and the people involved in getting the 7800 into the marketplace)

 

And seeming as though CV contributes to most of the atari related information on atari sites like atariage etc as well as the general gaming places like wikipaedia, that factoid or piece of information is as good as if it had come from an atari employee themselves (which is right on the button as CV only get's his information from 1st hand ATARI sources and not from some so-so that knew someone who worked at atari)

 

just curious as to why atari bothered with the test marketing of the 7800, i say that because, looking at it logically, if atari had committed to a full launch, tramiel would not have had good reason (even if it was a sound one) to pull the 7800 from the market...after all, you didn't see tramiel pulling the 800 or the6/800xl from the market after he assumed control of atari did you

[IceCold]

This is how I felt when I read your posts.

Except I was the director.

 

I'm never doing the white text move again.

Gorf's post was referring to mcjakeqcool.

[BDW]

This is how I felt when I read your posts.

Except I was the director.

 

I'm never doing the white text move again.

Gorf's post was referring to mcjakeqcool.

 

I removed it

[carmel_andrews]

Al's comment about the full moon thing scare's me

 

Does that mean that the next time the witching hour (midnight) is apon us, either atariage or some of the people on atariage will turn into pumpkins, cinderella or failing that MJ lookie likeies

 

I think that for people to openly question CV on certain facts is a mite disrespectful as I am sure the majority of atarians here on AA (and non atarians) will no doubt know that curt has worked tirelessly for many years collating a central resource for all things atari related (re the atari history site) and similarly has earnt/gained the respect of the Majority of atarians

 

Questioning curt on certain atari facts would be like questioning Clive Sinclair over the sinclair spectrum or Jay miner over the design of the atari 800 or amiga or Al Charpentier/Shivas Shivji over the c64 design...people would never think of doing that, so why are some peeps dissing curt

 

Curt...Don't give yourself another coronary, you only have one life...your not exactly replaceable like some people are

[Kurt_Woloch]

Well... probably the ones that are listed in the 1984 catalog where the 7800 appears in, which is to be found here:

 

http://www.atariage.com/catalog_overview.html?CatalogID=67

 

Those games would be:

3D Asteroids, Ballblazer, Centipede, Desert Falcon, Dig Dug, Food Fight, Galaga, Joust, Ms. Pac-Man, Pole Position II, Robotron: 2084 and Xevious.

I wouldn't be sure if all of those titles really were released in 1984, though (at least Ballblazer and Desert Falcon look a bit suspicious to me), but I can at least remember Ms. Pac-Man and Galaga having been reviewed in a German magazine back in late 1983 or early 1984 as part of a general review of the 7800.

 

I personally think that Jack Tramiel overreacted a bit when he pulled the plug on virtually EVERYTHING games that was in development at Atari in 1984. I can still remember that rave review of "Track and Field" for the 2600 in one mag, where at the end of the review they say that Atari wrote that they refrain from releasing it, and then say "Pity about it, because no one knows why".

 

So what games did those poor suckers in CA and NY have available to them for the two years that the Tramiels had the 7800 on ice?

 

Musta sucked...

[ninermaniac]

I hate it when a few words are taken out of context. Flame threads. That's all this thread is. Management always has a way of twisting the truth anyway. Original ideas are taken fom small children anyways. It's hard telling how many young kids sent drawings, requests, and things of that nature that inspired all of the console and games ideas. Ultimately the power goes to the wonderful minds of the children who inspire thier parents to either give them the idea or inspire them to come up with these ingenious ideas. (Referring to the employees). I just happened to be one of those kids who mailed in ideas so I am speaking up for those guys who did the same!! Where's my cut?

[Curt Vendel]

4 Titles - Pole Position (pak in), Ms Pac Man, Joust, Dig Dug and Centipede I have one of each with 1984 labels and a 1984 Joust box as well.

 

 

 

 

 

Curt

 

 

 

So what games did those poor suckers in CA and NY have available to them for the two years that the Tramiels had the 7800 on ice?

 

 

 

I'd like to know that myself. Could not have been many of them I would assume.

[Curt Vendel]

I used to think the same way about the Tramiels, however after shedding the bias and looking at the facts and more importantly looking at the memo's and emails flying around from July 84-April 85 what I found was Tramiel was smart in one sense, not so smart in others. Money was a massive issue for him - building a new computer from scratch is not a cheap enterprise especially back then, literally everything was being sold from filing cabinets to whole buildings - the Vax mainframe in Atari Grass Valley was traded to Digital Research in exchange for GEM being ported to the Atari ST for example (Ron Milner - Grass Valley explained the whole story to me), with huge stockpiles of custom 8bit chips - getting the 8bit line going under lower costs and the XE badging made sense. The 7800 was a brand new product, very little (in perspective) of the way of inventory was available for it, Tramiel did not know the video game business and stayed in his comfort zone of computers. From his point of view it was a great choice - in the overall picture, had he kept on some people who know the videogame side and could've gone into detail on the 7800 and 2600 sales, and with the wide open field since Intelly & Coleco were pretty well battered and limping off into the sunset - he should've put more time into the consideration of the system and its long term potential.

 

 

Curt

 

Well... probably the ones that are listed in the 1984 catalog where the 7800 appears in, which is to be found here:

 

http://www.atariage.com/catalog_overview.html?CatalogID=67

 

Those games would be:

3D Asteroids, Ballblazer, Centipede, Desert Falcon, Dig Dug, Food Fight, Galaga, Joust, Ms. Pac-Man, Pole Position II, Robotron: 2084 and Xevious.

I wouldn't be sure if all of those titles really were released in 1984, though (at least Ballblazer and Desert Falcon look a bit suspicious to me), but I can at least remember Ms. Pac-Man and Galaga having been reviewed in a German magazine back in late 1983 or early 1984 as part of a general review of the 7800.

 

I personally think that Jack Tramiel overreacted a bit when he pulled the plug on virtually EVERYTHING games that was in development at Atari in 1984. I can still remember that rave review of "Track and Field" for the 2600 in one mag, where at the end of the review they say that Atari wrote that they refrain from releasing it, and then say "Pity about it, because no one knows why".

 

So what games did those poor suckers in CA and NY have available to them for the two years that the Tramiels had the 7800 on ice?

 

Musta sucked...

[Snider-man]

Hey Curt, I hope you didn't think my "wiki slam" was against you ealier. Was directed at the OP. I know you know your stuff and all.

[gdement]

I'm amazed a simple question about 1984 vs 1986 turned into a flame dogpile. It's even more amazing than that other thread involving sinistermoon. No misunderstanding can slide. Maybe it is the moon.

Yes, we all know Vendel has more resources at hand than anyone and cannot be questioned on anything. He's probably a fine guy but all this sacred cow crap is nauseating.

Edited July 23, 2009 by gdement