Atari 8bit is superior to the ST

[atariksi]

It's not to do with resolution. You basically assume chroma is similar in entire 4*4 area although in reality it can be a completely different color. But you don't do that for luminance. So your point doesn't make sense. ST RGB palette is easier to use, but not optimal for visually uniform regions as other color spaces.

 

As I said, Photoshop has problems with mapping to A8's color space for some reason. Perhaps, there's some plug-in to fix it.

 

You should let Adobe know that.. I'm sure they'd be interested to know there's a very unique palette that breaks their colour reduction algorithms.. In the past I've found Adobe developers to be very helpful when there's a problem and if you provide them with the right information and without sounding like a loon too much, you'll likely end up having one of the programmers pop-up in your inbox in no time, wanting to fix it..

 

Anyway, please do let us know what he says

 

If you knew anything about A8 users, you would know many people have had problems with Photoshop color mapping to A8 palettes. Just trying to find fault again rather than admit a fact.

[atariksi]

And that is exactly the problem. You screwed up and can't admit it because you have some desire to be right all the time.

...

I just proved that you introduced the IIGS into the topic, you self-contradicted yourself, you are wrong that DTP possibility on A8, and that all the insults are ONLY coming from you. All my words like "you can't read" are true and thus not insults. False accusations won't help. You are too emotionally caught up to think clearly anymore.

 

 

Stop playing moderator. Moderator is smarter than you. Both of my remarks in post #1200 and $1234 are proven.

I don't have any idea how smart the moderator is so I can't tell if that is an insult or not.

...

Learn to read: Stop playing moderator. Stop speculating as to what he should or should not do. It's off topic like most of what you have written in this topic. And you are a hypocrite for writing off topic stuff and then accusing others of it. Get a brain.

 

I said limiting it to the 8 bit era contradicted including the ST and it didn't make sense.

...

No, I said that. You're just beating around the bush and flailing like usual.

[atariksi]

Does Newsroom support layers, importing jpg files, and truetype fonts?

Did jpg file formats even exist back then.. I think not.

gif did... did it support that?

 

You are missing the point. You guys are saying a simple page mockup program that is little more than a later version of printmaster is a desktop publishing program. Newsroom was good for simple newsletters and stuff like that but it's not the same. If you want to do professional work the 8 bit just won't do it. At least some of the ST software could. That alone proves the 8 bit isn't better at everything. You just don't want to admit it.

 

I don't think you can say 8-bit computers can't do it. It's a software issue-- if you target a 128K+ Atari or one with big secondary storage, I'm sure it can be done. ST given its higher resolution would be better at it although it's clumsy to use monochrome monitor for 640*400 and 640*200 for color. I'm sure EGA at the time with it's 640*350*16 would be a better option.

 

Looks like you selective pick stuff to support your own views. Here's my reply to your claim "8 bit won't do it". Now you stated both, I agree but only a deluded fool would than go back and forth between two contradictory views. QED.

 

Look at the entire paragraph. I'm talking about existing software here. You are trying to take a sentence out of context.

 

"You are missing the point. You guys are saying a simple page mockup program that is little more than a later version of printmaster is a desktop publishing program. Newsroom was good for simple newsletters and stuff like that but it's not the same. If you want to do professional work the 8 bit just won't do it. At least some of the ST software could. That alone proves the 8 bit isn't better at everything. You just don't want to admit it."

 

I quoted the very thing you quoted to me (whole passage); I didn't take it out of context.

[atariksi]

As I said, Photoshop has problems with mapping to A8's color space for some reason. Perhaps, there's some plug-in to fix it.

 

What's photoshop got to do with the A8?

 

You asked in post #1288. Sorry, I haven't had time to write my own application to map 24-bit RGB to A8s palette nor any need for it as it's distinctively clear from logic and analysis that A8 palette is superior to ST. I bet I can write a 24-bit to 3-3-3 RGB pretty fast. AND by 0xE0 each primary. Photochrome writers must be geniuses.

[atariksi]

...

I am just interested to understanding why people are using PHOTOSHOP when we are supposed to be discussing the merits (or otherwise) and capabilities of the ST and the A8...perhaps Photoshop was released for the ST and A8 in another lifetime or parallel universe

 

We're not comparing Photoshop software on A8 and ST. I guess you didn't read the thread. It was related to a screw-up of someone showing a 128-color parrot using A8 palette and I wanted to convert some pictures using 256-color A8 palette for fair comparison purposes. It can be any software-- doesn't have to be Photoshop.

 

Amazingly enough CrazyAce who knows the reason still questions what has Photoshop have to do with it.

[atariksi]

BTW, bullcrap has now been introduced into the topic.

 

That's off topic. Another proof by me that you are a hypocrite. My use of bullcrap was on-topic. And to answer your question, DTP can be done on A8.

[JamesD]

And that is exactly the problem. You screwed up and can't admit it because you have some desire to be right all the time.

...

I just proved that you introduced the IIGS into the topic, you self-contradicted yourself, you are wrong that DTP possibility on A8, and that all the insults are ONLY coming from you. All my words like "you can't read" are true and thus not insults. False accusations won't help. You are too emotionally caught up to think clearly anymore.

I know I introduced the IIgs into the topic. But it wasn't as a comparison vs the 8 bit.

It was for comparison vs the ST.

 

Stop playing moderator. Moderator is smarter than you. Both of my remarks in post #1200 and $1234 are proven.

I don't have any idea how smart the moderator is so I can't tell if that is an insult or not.

...

Learn to read: Stop playing moderator. Stop speculating as to what he should or should not do. It's off topic like most of what you have written in this topic. And you are a hypocrite for writing off topic stuff and then accusing others of it. Get a brain.

I started the topic and you have constantly taken sentences out of context, tried to talk about things that are off topic, and I've spent more messages than I care to guess trying to get you to stick to the original topic which had to do with the poll and my original post.

 

And yet more personal attacks.

 

I said limiting it to the 8 bit era contradicted including the ST and it didn't make sense.

...

No, I said that. You're just beating around the bush and flailing like usual.

You brought up the 8 bit era and I already pointed out where. And I did say it way back in Post #1160

 

"Desktop publishing was certainly being done then and trying to exclude the time of the ST, which is the very machine you are comparing against, is absurd as that would exclude the ST itself."

[JamesD]

BTW, bullcrap has now been introduced into the topic.

 

That's off topic. Another proof by me that you are a hypocrite. My use of bullcrap was on-topic. And to answer your question, DTP can be done on A8.

Bullcrap is on topic. LMAO

[atariksi]

And that is exactly the problem. You screwed up and can't admit it because you have some desire to be right all the time.

...

I just proved that you introduced the IIGS into the topic, you self-contradicted yourself, you are wrong that DTP possibility on A8, and that all the insults are ONLY coming from you. All my words like "you can't read" are true and thus not insults. False accusations won't help. You are too emotionally caught up to think clearly anymore.

I know I introduced the IIgs into the topic. But it wasn't as a comparison vs the 8 bit.

It was for comparison vs the ST.

 

Stop playing moderator. Moderator is smarter than you. Both of my remarks in post #1200 and $1234 are proven.

I don't have any idea how smart the moderator is so I can't tell if that is an insult or not.

...

Learn to read: Stop playing moderator. Stop speculating as to what he should or should not do. It's off topic like most of what you have written in this topic. And you are a hypocrite for writing off topic stuff and then accusing others of it. Get a brain.

I started the topic and you have constantly taken sentences out of context, tried to talk about things that are off topic, and I've spent more messages than I care to guess trying to get you to stick to the original topic which had to do with the poll and my original post.

 

And yet more personal attacks.

 

I said limiting it to the 8 bit era contradicted including the ST and it didn't make sense.

...

No, I said that. You're just beating around the bush and flailing like usual.

You brought up the 8 bit era and I already pointed out where. And I did say it way back in Post #1160

 

"Desktop publishing was certainly being done then and trying to exclude the time of the ST, which is the very machine you are comparing against, is absurd as that would exclude the ST itself."

 

No personal attacks. I said DTP wasn't that popular in 8-bit Era; I wasn't arguing whether ST or IIGS was in 8-bit era or not. I can use a term like 8-bit era without making it a central topic.

[atariksi]

BTW, bullcrap has now been introduced into the topic.

 

That's off topic. Another proof by me that you are a hypocrite. My use of bullcrap was on-topic. And to answer your question, DTP can be done on A8.

Bullcrap is on topic. LMAO

 

Stop the bullcrap. My use of bullcrap is superior as it's on topic.

[JamesD]

Does Newsroom support layers, importing jpg files, and truetype fonts?

Did jpg file formats even exist back then.. I think not.

gif did... did it support that?

 

You are missing the point. You guys are saying a simple page mockup program that is little more than a later version of printmaster is a desktop publishing program. Newsroom was good for simple newsletters and stuff like that but it's not the same. If you want to do professional work the 8 bit just won't do it. At least some of the ST software could. That alone proves the 8 bit isn't better at everything. You just don't want to admit it.

 

I don't think you can say 8-bit computers can't do it. It's a software issue-- if you target a 128K+ Atari or one with big secondary storage, I'm sure it can be done. ST given its higher resolution would be better at it although it's clumsy to use monochrome monitor for 640*400 and 640*200 for color. I'm sure EGA at the time with it's 640*350*16 would be a better option.

 

Looks like you selective pick stuff to support your own views. Here's my reply to your claim "8 bit won't do it". Now you stated both, I agree but only a deluded fool would than go back and forth between two contradictory views. QED.

 

Look at the entire paragraph. I'm talking about existing software here. You are trying to take a sentence out of context.

 

"You are missing the point. You guys are saying a simple page mockup program that is little more than a later version of printmaster is a desktop publishing program. Newsroom was good for simple newsletters and stuff like that but it's not the same. If you want to do professional work the 8 bit just won't do it. At least some of the ST software could. That alone proves the 8 bit isn't better at everything. You just don't want to admit it."

 

I quoted the very thing you quoted to me (whole passage); I didn't take it out of context.

You quoted the entire thing but in your sentence you state:

"I don't think you can say 8-bit computers can't do it. "

 

You focused on one sentence in the paragraph and implied I was saying the 8 bit couldn't do it at all.

You were interpreting.

 

I was saying there is no 8 bit desktop publishing software on the 8 bit so you can't do it. At least you could do it on the ST.

 

Look all the way back at my original post. I didn't state the 8 bit couldn't do it at all.

Exactly how many times do I need to repeat myself?

[JamesD]

BTW, bullcrap has now been introduced into the topic.

 

That's off topic. Another proof by me that you are a hypocrite. My use of bullcrap was on-topic. And to answer your question, DTP can be done on A8.

Bullcrap is on topic. LMAO

 

Stop the bullcrap. My use of bullcrap is superior as it's on topic.

You have definitely mastered the art of using bullcrap in this topic.

Edited January 6, 2010 by JamesD

[atariksi]

Does Newsroom support layers, importing jpg files, and truetype fonts?

Did jpg file formats even exist back then.. I think not.

gif did... did it support that?

 

You are missing the point. You guys are saying a simple page mockup program that is little more than a later version of printmaster is a desktop publishing program. Newsroom was good for simple newsletters and stuff like that but it's not the same. If you want to do professional work the 8 bit just won't do it. At least some of the ST software could. That alone proves the 8 bit isn't better at everything. You just don't want to admit it.

 

I don't think you can say 8-bit computers can't do it. It's a software issue-- if you target a 128K+ Atari or one with big secondary storage, I'm sure it can be done. ST given its higher resolution would be better at it although it's clumsy to use monochrome monitor for 640*400 and 640*200 for color. I'm sure EGA at the time with it's 640*350*16 would be a better option.

 

Looks like you selective pick stuff to support your own views. Here's my reply to your claim "8 bit won't do it". Now you stated both, I agree but only a deluded fool would than go back and forth between two contradictory views. QED.

 

Look at the entire paragraph. I'm talking about existing software here. You are trying to take a sentence out of context.

 

"You are missing the point. You guys are saying a simple page mockup program that is little more than a later version of printmaster is a desktop publishing program. Newsroom was good for simple newsletters and stuff like that but it's not the same. If you want to do professional work the 8 bit just won't do it. At least some of the ST software could. That alone proves the 8 bit isn't better at everything. You just don't want to admit it."

 

I quoted the very thing you quoted to me (whole passage); I didn't take it out of context.

You quoted the entire thing but in your sentence you state:

"I don't think you can say 8-bit computers can't do it. "

 

You focused on one sentence in the paragraph and implied I was saying the 8 bit couldn't do it at all.

You were interpreting.

 

I was saying there is no 8 bit desktop publishing software on the 8 bit so you can't do it. At least you could do it on the ST.

 

Look all the way back at my original post. I didn't state the 8 bit couldn't do it at all.

Exactly how many times do I need to repeat myself?

 

I admit you said both-- it can do it and it can't. In fact, you said "can't" 5 times in post #1160 regarding DTP. And above context "If you want to do professional work the 8-bit just won't do it." is denying professional work (which I also disagree with).

[Albert]

This is why we can't have nice things.

 

 

Here it comes.

 

..Al

[Mirage]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[atariksi]

I would say poll reflects more people like A8.

[JamesD]

<snip>

I think these types threads are ridiculous. People on here are not comparing just the 800/XL/XE to ST/STe/TT, they are comparing these systems to everything else and finding another excuse to continue the Atari vs Commodore CRAP. I just pointed out when the 8-Bit (400/800) was released om 1978 it was ahead of almost everything else. Faster CPU, better graphics, than the Apple II, Commodore Pet, TRS80, etc.

<snip>

And that I totally agree with.

I just get sick of some of the outlandish claims that the Atari 8 bit can do anything, or are superior at everything.

I'm sure they leap tall buildings in a single bound too.

I should have never spoken up and let reality get in the way of passionate fanboyism.

 

PROOF that you used the word fanboy. Learn to read.

Yes I did.... but it wasn't in relation to my topic now was it?

[Albert]

vcsdream and atariksi have been banned from this topic.

 

Everyone else, please be civil, okay?

 

..Al

[JamesD]

I admit you said both-- it can do it and it can't. In fact, you said "can't" 5 times in post #1160 regarding DTP. And above context "If you want to do professional work the 8-bit just won't do it." is denying professional work (which I also disagree with).

I said can't can't can't can't... or something like that in one post. But you had just said that the 8 bit could do all the features listed above... which was from my post that listed a bunch of the features from Calimus and linked to a review of a current version.

And if that is the criteria for a DTP, I'm saying the 8 bit can't do it.

If it's something simple, which that wasn't, it can do it.

 

What is considered professional is pretty major and professional is going to be exporting a document in a certain format with hi-res images and taking it to the printers. Best of luck with that on the 8 bit.

[JamesD]

I would say poll reflects more people like A8.

And that is very insightful! "like" is the determining factor.

[dwhyte]

That bout of trolling almost deserves a slow clap ... almost.

[JamesD]

And that is exactly the problem. You screwed up and can't admit it because you have some desire to be right all the time.

...

I just proved that you introduced the IIGS into the topic, you self-contradicted yourself, you are wrong that DTP possibility on A8, and that all the insults are ONLY coming from you. All my words like "you can't read" are true and thus not insults. False accusations won't help. You are too emotionally caught up to think clearly anymore.

I know I introduced the IIgs into the topic. But it wasn't as a comparison vs the 8 bit.

It was for comparison vs the ST.

 

Stop playing moderator. Moderator is smarter than you. Both of my remarks in post #1200 and $1234 are proven.

I don't have any idea how smart the moderator is so I can't tell if that is an insult or not.

...

Learn to read: Stop playing moderator. Stop speculating as to what he should or should not do. It's off topic like most of what you have written in this topic. And you are a hypocrite for writing off topic stuff and then accusing others of it. Get a brain.

I started the topic and you have constantly taken sentences out of context, tried to talk about things that are off topic, and I've spent more messages than I care to guess trying to get you to stick to the original topic which had to do with the poll and my original post.

 

And yet more personal attacks.

 

I said limiting it to the 8 bit era contradicted including the ST and it didn't make sense.

...

No, I said that. You're just beating around the bush and flailing like usual.

You brought up the 8 bit era and I already pointed out where. And I did say it way back in Post #1160

 

"Desktop publishing was certainly being done then and trying to exclude the time of the ST, which is the very machine you are comparing against, is absurd as that would exclude the ST itself."

 

No personal attacks. I said DTP wasn't that popular in 8-bit Era; I wasn't arguing whether ST or IIGS was in 8-bit era or not. I can use a term like 8-bit era without making it a central topic.

As to the personal attacks, I was referring to the quoted text above that line, not below it.

I have every right to complain about personal attacks.

This is what I was talking about:

 

"Learn to read: Stop playing moderator. Stop speculating as to what he should or should not do. It's off topic like most of what you have written in this topic. And you are a hypocrite for writing off topic stuff and then accusing others of it. Get a brain."

 

You didn't say DTP wasn't that popular in the 8-bit Era, you said it didn't exist.

I pointed out that it was certainly done on the ST and before that on expensive machines owned by publishers.

I'm not going to cite the message # because you have been banned from the topic and it's pointless now.

[atarian63]

this thread starts again to become like our lovely C64 vs A8 thread...

 

so Albert, close it and we restart again with Apple 2 vs A8 thread... or ZX Spectrum vs A8 thread or Dragon 32 vs A8 thread.

On that I agree.

 

How about... alien anal probes vs the Atari 8 bit.

Either way the answer gets pulled out of your a**.

Anal probes vs c64 you cant loose as they are both crap brown

[Albert]

Anal probes vs c64 you cant loose as they are both crap brown

This does not contribute to the discussion.

 

..Al

[JamesD]

That bout of trolling almost deserves a slow clap ... almost.

Sorry people, after he tried to manipulate things like he had in the VS 64 thread I just said not again.

So am I a troll too? I shouldn't have been feeding the flames but... holy s***!

 

How many times did the following happen?

 

You said this. I proved it!

No, you said that. Look at the original topic and the poll.

 

You can't read!

You misread my post/took it out of context.