Best Monitor?

[flashjazzcat]

The LG M237WD seems to be available here in the states. I've been debating whether or not to pull the trigger on one. I've tried a 20" CRT TV and a 20 inch EDTV LCD and neither worked as well as I would like. I had a Commodore 1702A monitor, but 13" is just too small when you're used to larger displays. I had an Amdek color monitor back in the day and it was great, but those are hard to find.

I think you should buy it. My LG has done nothing but impress since I bought it: it hasn't been flummoxed by anything I've thrown its way. I haven't heard too much about the US versions of these TVs. I'd certainly be interested in your findings if you do decide to buy one. My feeling is that you won't regret it - but that's purely based on my PAL experiences...

[Urchlay]

Oh, and why is the 1702 more desirable than the 1701?

 

For me it's only because I've never seen a 1701

[DavidM]

The LG M237WD seems to be available here in the states. I've been debating whether or not to pull the trigger on one. I've tried a 20" CRT TV and a 20 inch EDTV LCD and neither worked as well as I would like. I had a Commodore 1702A monitor, but 13" is just too small when you're used to larger displays. I had an Amdek color monitor back in the day and it was great, but those are hard to find.

I think you should buy it. My LG has done nothing but impress since I bought it: it hasn't been flummoxed by anything I've thrown its way. I haven't heard too much about the US versions of these TVs. I'd certainly be interested in your findings if you do decide to buy one. My feeling is that you won't regret it - but that's purely based on my PAL experiences...

 

Went ahead and ordered one last night off Amazon. Won't see it for a week or so since I used super-saver shipping. I'll post up something after I get a chance to hook up to it.

[tkarner]

I use a 32" Sony WEGA TV, circa 2001, for all my retrogaming and vintage computing. I think it represents the pinnacle of standard def CRT design, and therefore its perfect for the old stuff. It's a flat screen, 480 line, 4:3 CRT. They made smaller models too and up to a 36" model. The 32"+ sized models had a video mode (that they called "movie" mode) that did some sort of anti-aliasing that really improved the picture sharpness, especially for onscreen text. It's perfectly serviceable as a PC monitor at 640x480 and even 800x600. It has RF, composite, s-video, and component inputs so there's no problem connecting anything vintage. And since it's CRT, light guns are no problem. There is no better way to play Duck Hunt.

[MEtalGuy66]

If light guns work with it, it's "the real deal"... Theres alot more requirements than it just "being a CRT" for light guns to work.. Light guns will not work with a VGA CRT monitor and a scan-doubler..

 

If the light guns work on that thing, then it is really producing the exact same (or close) raster scan characteristics that a normal analog NTSC display does..

 

If this is indeed the case, and the dot-pitch really is high enough to do 800x600 VGA modes clearly, then that is truly a kewl setup...

Edited January 8, 2010 by MEtalGuy66

[UNIXcoffee928]

 

...

As far as LCD or "flat panel" displays go.. heh.. Ive never seen or heard of one that can compete with the CRTs where alot of "atari-relevant" factors are concerned..  Remember that systems like the ATARI are designed around the principles of a raster-scanning CRT of a specific scan/refresh rate.. In order to see every possible "trick" that can be performed by the ATARI hardware, you really need "the real deal".. Not some LCD with some digital electronics that takes in the NTSC signal and produces a "close approximation" of what the display would look like on a CRT.. Its just not the same.

...

Very well put. Prophetic, even. Twenty years from now, when CRTs are very scarce, and fifty year old Atari 800s cost over a thousand dollars on ebay, a display of matching vintage & technical characteristics will also be a commodity item... specifically for retrocomputing & historic purposes.

 

Really, I'm sure that the whole switchover to panel tech caused a great deal of dangerous pollution, in a very short time-frame. At least half of those CRT monitors & TVs are going to the dump, and not being recycled in any way. This will have a large-scale environmental impact.

 

In 20 years, a CRT will be an antique rarity. ...& our grandchildren will have six heads. lol.

[DavidM]

Posting a follow-up. I received the LG M237WD monitor/TV last night. I hooked both a 130XE and 800 up to it. The 130XE via s-video & composite and the 800 via composite. The composite for both looks pretty decent. I just booted up to a blue scree with basic and the characters are a little fuzzy, but nothing you wouldn't expect. The s-video from the 130XE is much clearer, but I'm getting some serious vertical banding. I'm using a home-made s-video cable with no diode or anything in it. I'll try some of the fixes that have been mentioned and see what happens. I didn't take any picture, but can if someone wants to see.

 

The monitor seems to handle the Atari input ok. I'll have to try it with some more graphics intensive programs to see how it goes, but so far so good. One little peeve is that the monitor seems to use resistance/capacitance to sense whether or not a cable is plugged into the s-video port. If it senses a s-video cable then it assumes that s-video will be used. The composite and s-video inputs are shared so you can't use the composite input if you have a cable plugged into s-video. You actually have to unplug the s-video cable even if there is no signal on it. My plan was to plug the 130xe into the s-video and the 800 into the composite, but I have to unplug the s-video cable to use the 800. Not that I use the 800 that much, but it's still annoying.

 

David

[+bob1200xl]

Every s-video input I have ever seen does that, I'm afraid... LCDs, CRTs, everything. Unless you have a second (third, fourth,,,) input, which is pretty common. Then, you can select inputs with the remote. I think they all work by sensing the shell of the s-video plug shorting out a contact.

 

Bob

 

 

 

Posting a follow-up. I received the LG M237WD monitor/TV last night. I hooked both a 130XE and 800 up to it. The 130XE via s-video & composite and the 800 via composite. The composite for both looks pretty decent. I just booted up to a blue scree with basic and the characters are a little fuzzy, but nothing you wouldn't expect. The s-video from the 130XE is much clearer, but I'm getting some serious vertical banding. I'm using a home-made s-video cable with no diode or anything in it. I'll try some of the fixes that have been mentioned and see what happens. I didn't take any picture, but can if someone wants to see.

 

The monitor seems to handle the Atari input ok. I'll have to try it with some more graphics intensive programs to see how it goes, but so far so good. One little peeve is that the monitor seems to use resistance/capacitance to sense whether or not a cable is plugged into the s-video port. If it senses a s-video cable then it assumes that s-video will be used. The composite and s-video inputs are shared so you can't use the composite input if you have a cable plugged into s-video. You actually have to unplug the s-video cable even if there is no signal on it. My plan was to plug the 130xe into the s-video and the 800 into the composite, but I have to unplug the s-video cable to use the 800. Not that I use the 800 that much, but it's still annoying.

 

David

[oky2000]

I was trying to find one off Craigslist, but most of the TVs (19-20") didn't have S-video, or I wasn't able to get the seller to provide me enough info to find out.

I finally Ebay'd 13" and paid shipping. When I want a "fix" of big-screen, I hook to my 35" CRT Sony. For puttering around in BASIC, I prefer the 13" anyway because it's clear and I don't have to move my lazy eyes all over the large screen to read.

 

CRT televisions do not have anywhere near as sharp of an image as a professional CRT display (or commodore/magnavox chroma/luma monitor) does..

 

It's hard to beat a 1702, 1084/s, or Magnavox "Color Computer Monitor 80".....

 

Up to around 86/87 a Sony Trinitron 14" TV used the same tube as their old skool monitors, and via SCART gave an identical picture sharpness/convergence accuracy too. If all the white lines on dark blue in 640x512 line up with no flaring on an OS desktop you know you have a winner there, especially if you can count the pixels used to dither too

[MEtalGuy66]

I was trying to find one off Craigslist, but most of the TVs (19-20") didn't have S-video, or I wasn't able to get the seller to provide me enough info to find out.

I finally Ebay'd 13" and paid shipping. When I want a "fix" of big-screen, I hook to my 35" CRT Sony. For puttering around in BASIC, I prefer the 13" anyway because it's clear and I don't have to move my lazy eyes all over the large screen to read.

 

CRT televisions do not have anywhere near as sharp of an image as a professional CRT display (or commodore/magnavox chroma/luma monitor) does..

 

It's hard to beat a 1702, 1084/s, or Magnavox "Color Computer Monitor 80".....

 

Up to around 86/87 a Sony Trinitron 14" TV used the same tube as their old skool monitors, and via SCART gave an identical picture sharpness/convergence accuracy too. If all the white lines on dark blue in 640x512 line up with no flaring on an OS desktop you know you have a winner there, especially if you can count the pixels used to dither too

 

Yeah well, that may be one noteable exception.. But a DECENT monitor, (eg. C=1084, 1702, Magnavox CM-series, etc.) of that era typically has a "dot pitch" of about .40 - .50mm... Most TV CRTs (even modern ones) have a dot (actually "slotted triplet") pitch of .75 - .90mm or higher.. Theres just never been a need with broadcast television for anything better.. Now of course, anything that has been made specifically as a multi-purpose display that supports the modern "HD" modes would obviously need to be capable of higher resolution.. But your "plain-jane" NTSC-Broadcast CRT TVs have pretty much alwayse sucked, resolution-wise compared to professional quality monitor CRTs..

[candle]

it might be easy to say for me (as i was working as a repair-tech for monitors for quite few years) but every tv and monitor can be hooked via RGB or S-Video (that would be true for every TV, but not nessesarly monitor)

for some reason manufacturers just don't provide $2 connector & parts (few caps and resistors) required for this to happend

When in Europe this is unheard of, it seems that in States or Australia this is quite common practice

 

One tip though - older model will be better than newer one - CRT quality is descending over years anyway, and lack of documentation for some tv-in-a-chip solutions present in many modern CRT TV might be prohibiting for most of You

 

On the second hand - if one can have CRT for $10 that doesn't have s-video or RGB inputs, and $100 for one that has those connectors ready, then i would really reconsider, even if that would imply that one has to get the unit to the local tv repair shop and explain what one desires

 

mods required aren't hard to do, just voltages present inside might be discouraging

[mimo]

it might be easy to say for me (as i was working as a repair-tech for monitors for quite few years) but every tv and monitor can be hooked via RGB or S-Video (that would be true for every TV, but not nessesarly monitor)

for some reason manufacturers just don't provide $2 connector & parts (few caps and resistors) required for this to happend

When in Europe this is unheard of, it seems that in States or Australia this is quite common practice

 

One tip though - older model will be better than newer one - CRT quality is descending over years anyway, and lack of documentation for some tv-in-a-chip solutions present in many modern CRT TV might be prohibiting for most of You

 

On the second hand - if one can have CRT for $10 that doesn't have s-video or RGB inputs, and $100 for one that has those connectors ready, then i would really reconsider, even if that would imply that one has to get the unit to the local tv repair shop and explain what one desires

 

mods required aren't hard to do, just voltages present inside might be discouraging

 

oooh, so can I get s-video on my 14" Sony CRT?

[jaybird3rd]

For my "game-playing" computer, I use a regular Samsung 13" CRT TV (fortunately I bought it new just before everyone went to LCD), but I also have a 1702, and I'm going to set that up as my primary display for my 130XE. For my XEP80, I use an Amdek 300A amber monochrome composite display, which I really like.

Speaking of the 1702 ... I just set mine up and realized that it has some discoloration problems. On a solid blue screen, there are reddish areas near the upper-left and upper-right corners, and a little bit in the center as well. There are no magnetic fields anywhere near the monitor that I know of, except the built-in speaker. Would degaussing help correct this? Does the 1702 have a built-in degaussing ring (I suspect not given its age)? The monitor is usable as it is, but any help would be appreciated.

[+bob1200xl]

There is a screen-sized metal plate with a zillion holes in it that is mounted just behind the face of the tube. If this gets magnitized, you will get color blushing. The monitor has a de-gausser, but they are universally wimped - use a good, high-powered degaussing coil on it and you should be OK.

 

It is also possible that the yoke/purity ring is loose. You should hope not...

 

Bob

 

 

 

 

For my "game-playing" computer, I use a regular Samsung 13" CRT TV (fortunately I bought it new just before everyone went to LCD), but I also have a 1702, and I'm going to set that up as my primary display for my 130XE. For my XEP80, I use an Amdek 300A amber monochrome composite display, which I really like.

Speaking of the 1702 ... I just set mine up and realized that it has some discoloration problems. On a solid blue screen, there are reddish areas near the upper-left and upper-right corners, and a little bit in the center as well. There are no magnetic fields anywhere near the monitor that I know of, except the built-in speaker. Would degaussing help correct this? Does the 1702 have a built-in degaussing ring (I suspect not given its age)? The monitor is usable as it is, but any help would be appreciated.

[Mr.Amiga500]

CRT televisions do not have anywhere near as sharp of an image as a professional CRT display (or commodore/magnavox chroma/luma monitor) does..

 

It's hard to beat a 1702, 1084/s, or Magnavox "Color Computer Monitor 80".....

 

Maybe so, but I certainly prefer the image on my 34" Toshiba flat CRT TV to my 1080/1084 monitors. I always thought the 1080/1084 monitors would be best - and I had my Ataris set up on those for years, but I was surprised when I briefly hooked up my 800XL to my TV to test it. Colour and contrast are much better. The dot pitch isn't as high as on the 1084, but with the low resolution of the Atari - and the much larger screen size, I'm not sure that matters. 80-column text is just as readable (or unreadable... but at least the text is larger).

 

I liked it so much, I moved my whole Atari setup downstairs.

[candle]

the truth is, 1084 has a pitch of 0.42mm (per color slot, so 1.26 per pixel), where standard vga monitor has pitch of 0.26mm at average

glorification of 1084 display quality is amazing though

 

i've once replaced 1084 tv tube with VGA one from old VGA monitor, it was delta configuration, and the picture was amazing

 

it served long time, and now found new home maybe i'll convience new owner to post some pictures here