More controller woes

[darthkur]

I thought I was set for life with at least the one controller I have. Last year I replaced all the buttons and the flex circuit with Best's gold dot versions. It's worked like a charm until recently. Last month we had the Progressive version of Super Breakout for the HSC. My first indication that anything was wrong is when I went to press the # key to change the game modes. It wouldn't work. Turns out that entire vertical row is now non functional. That's 3, 6, 9 and #. I couldn't imagine the gold dot gizmos dieing so soon so I figured it was a broken or lose wire. Moving the cable around did nothing to improve the situation so I reluctantly disassembled the controller. I can find no broken connections in either the internal wires nor the flex circuit. Be aware that this is just visual observation. I am sadly ignorant in the ways to check it otherwise.

Now things get worse. I can't get the damn thing together right. No matter how many times I swear that the arms on the pots are lined up with the rails the joystick will not function correctly any longer. I dig out my out of commision second controller and compare the pots, thinking that I might swap them out. Of coarse they are a different style so simply switching them is out of the question. I notice that the travel length on the 2nd controller pots are much shorter than on my main controller. Does this mean that the pots are "stripped" or otherwise damaged on the 1st controller? They move around the circumference of the pot about twice as much more. I find that trying to control even the simple menu on my multi-cart by twisting to pots manually to be impossible now. Assuming there are stripped I really can't imagine that this would have any causal effect on the malfunctioning keypad buttons. Is there anyone with a greater knowledge of these contraptions that can help me out with this bad situation? Is there an EASY way either to further diagnose or fix this thing or am I out of luck and have to shell out a small fortune to buy one or two more controllers?

[+remowilliams]

Turns out that entire vertical row is now non functional. That's 3, 6, 9 and #. I couldn't imagine the gold dot gizmos dieing so soon so I figured it was a broken or lose wire.

That sounds exactly like a broken wire, the COL2 line (pin 1) I believe which is the vertical signal line for that column in the key matrix. You should pick up a multitester, they can be had extremely cheaply and are foolproof to use. You just connect one probe to the joystick plug end and one end to the wire inside the stick to find out if they are broken or compromised.

[darthkur]

Turns out that entire vertical row is now non functional. That's 3, 6, 9 and #. I couldn't imagine the gold dot gizmos dieing so soon so I figured it was a broken or lose wire.

That sounds exactly like a broken wire, the COL2 line (pin 1) I believe which is the vertical signal line for that column in the key matrix. You should pick up a multitester, they can be had extremely cheaply and are foolproof to use. You just connect one probe to the joystick plug end and one end to the wire inside the stick to find out if they are broken or compromised.

 

I have a multitester/multimeter. I have no idea how to use it properly. Assuming I put the right probe in the right place I haven't a clue how to read the results.

[zylon]

the different style pots are interchangeable. one style uses a ring to keep it in place and the other doesn't. your loss of an entire column would sound like either a broken wire in the cord or possible bad port. Whenever I rebuilt these, I always used a new cord. Try the cord from your parts controller.

[darthkur]

the different style pots are interchangeable. one style uses a ring to keep it in place and the other doesn't. your loss of an entire column would sound like either a broken wire in the cord or possible bad port. Whenever I rebuilt these, I always used a new cord. Try the cord from your parts controller.

 

Sounds like a good idea. I'll give that a try. Thanks.

[bohoki]

the different style pots are interchangeable. one style uses a ring to keep it in place and the other doesn't. your loss of an entire column would sound like either a broken wire in the cord or possible bad port. Whenever I rebuilt these, I always used a new cord. Try the cord from your parts controller.

 

Sounds like a good idea. I'll give that a try. Thanks.

 

check your port for broken pins mine has them i replaced them by shoving in a little square header pin

 

you really need a multimeter to find out what is going on

 

also if you pot arms get moved beyond their stops its tricky getting it back where it should be but ive fixed it using missile command

[tz101]

I don't know about a multitester, but a continuity tester is simple and will do the trick. It is basically a narrow flashlight with two alligator clip contacts. Connect one clip to the pin at the controller's connector plug, and the other clip to the correlating wire end inside the controller housing, then turn the flashlight on. If the bulb lights up then you have a complete circuit throughout the entire length of that particular wire. If it doesn't, then you have a broken wire to repair.

 

As for the pots: Atari used a couple different types of pots, but they are interchangeable. The arms are press fit over the shafts but can be adjusted by forcing them to move past the stop (in either direction). Here's the adjustment method: Pop in Missile Command, then fiddle with the upper and lower pot arms until the on-screen crosshair is visually centered. The key is that the upper pot arm needs to be aligned exactly at 9 o'clock with the crosshair at vertical center, and the lower pot arm needs to be aligned exactly at the 6 o'clock position with the on-screen crosshair centered horizontally. You will have to mess with the pot arms for a while to accomplish this.

[darthkur]

 

 

check your port for broken pins mine has them i replaced them by shoving in a little square header pin

 

you really need a multimeter to find out what is going on

 

also if you pot arms get moved beyond their stops its tricky getting it back where it should be but ive fixed it using missile command

 

I checked the pins and they are all there. So that's a good thing. Rather have the problem be with the controller and not the console.

 

 

I don't know about a multitester, but a continuity tester is simple and will do the trick. It is basically a narrow flashlight with two alligator clip contacts. Connect one clip to the pin at the controller's connector plug, and the other clip to the correlating wire end inside the controller housing, then turn the flashlight on. If the bulb lights up then you have a complete circuit throughout the entire length of that particular wire. If it doesn't, then you have a broken wire to repair.

 

As for the pots: Atari used a couple different types of pots, but they are interchangeable. The arms are press fit over the shafts but can be adjusted by forcing them to move past the stop (in either direction). Here's the adjustment method: Pop in Missile Command, then fiddle with the upper and lower pot arms until the on-screen crosshair is visually centered. The key is that the upper pot arm needs to be aligned exactly at 9 o'clock with the crosshair at vertical center, and the lower pot arm needs to be aligned exactly at the 6 o'clock position with the on-screen crosshair centered horizontally. You will have to mess with the pot arms for a while to accomplish this.

 

I don't have a continuity tester but I would imagine that the multimeter I have must have that function. If only I knew. I'll see if my neighbor has one tomorrow. I'll definitely give that a try with the pots and MC as well. I've got a feeling that's going to be an exercise in aggravation but if it saves me for coughing up $40 - $50 I'm game.

[darthkur]

The good news is that I can play my 5200 again. The bad news is that I'm right back to where I started before all this mess. Although I replaced the cord as advised the 3, 6, 9 and # keys still do not work. Therefore I must assume that it's the flex circuit after all. So much for lifetime parts. Still they're the best "game in town" so I'll have to get another and hope for the best. No pun intended.

Realigning the pots with Missile Command worked like a charm too. Wasn't even difficult as I feared.

Thank you to everyone for your kind assistance.

[+remowilliams]

Although I replaced the cord as advised the 3, 6, 9 and # keys still do not work.

Have you tried the stick in another port besides 1?

 

If you replaced the cable (which we'll assume is good) and the port itself on the 5200 is ok, you might have a bad MUX IC inside the 5200 itself (U9 I believe for port 1).

[darthkur]

Although I replaced the cord as advised the 3, 6, 9 and # keys still do not work.

Have you tried the stick in another port besides 1?

 

If you replaced the cable (which we'll assume is good) and the port itself on the 5200 is ok, you might have a bad MUX IC inside the 5200 itself (U9 I believe for port 1).

 

I just gave it a try in port 2 but to no avail. That's a relief though. I would not want to have to deal with a bad chip inside the console.

[atari_envy]

The good news is that I can play my 5200 again. The bad news is that I'm right back to where I started before all this mess. Although I replaced the cord as advised the 3, 6, 9 and # keys still do not work. Therefore I must assume that it's the flex circuit after all. So much for lifetime parts. Still they're the best "game in town" so I'll have to get another and hope for the best. No pun intended.

Realigning the pots with Missile Command worked like a charm too. Wasn't even difficult as I feared.

Thank you to everyone for your kind assistance.

I am really bummed to hear that. Like you, I thought after getting the Best gold sticks, I wouldn't be buying/fixing another 5200 joystick again.

 

I used Star Wars Arcade instead to do the alignment -- pretty easy. Lining up the X off the nose of the X-Wing makes it easy. While playing, the trench is a great way to see if you got the alignment right.

[zylon]

I'll have to try SW sometime, I've always used m. command.

[bohoki]

I'll have to try SW sometime, I've always used m. command.

 

 

i use missile command to test the stick and then plug in galazian to test the keypad pressing 1-9 immediatly starts the game on that level

 

the flex circuit is kinda fragile even a new one if kinked while install can break a trace

[+Cafeman]

I hooked up my 5200 tonight to play some Pac-man, the HSC competition etc etc...

 

However, I don't actually own Pac-man it seems. I dont' know what happened to my cart. ?? I tried loading it onto my Atarimax that I bought from Old Guru, but the software doesn't work with my newest PC (winXP home). Missing DLL error ... I'll have to investigate a solution there.

 

So, no Pac-man , I was in the mood to play Popeye. But the controller thing - on all 3 of my rebuilt controllers, I couldn't move left unless I really pressed left hard. It's been this way since I got them rebuilt but the one controller that usually worked now doesn't.

 

So I said to myself, "Self, you took those !@#$ controllers apart before and fixed something , you can do it again". So I took out the 3 screws on the back of the controller, took it apart, hooked up Missile Command and set the pots to center, hooked it back up ... still no left on Popeye. After several tries, I realized I had to take off the plastic swivel-hook thing from the bottom pot (horizontal movement) and put it back on a bit rotated counter-clockwise. This did the trick! My controller hasn't worked this perfectly for a while. And it wasn't hard to fix either, I feel I could do it again on any controller given a few minutes.

 

So I played Popeye and got really far and truly enjoyed it, like I used to. Played Frogger (ugh, the button pressing cramps my hand now!), Centipede (excellent), Space Dungeon (this game is programmed in a way that my controllers always worked well with it, even better now), and Koffi. But I can't play Pac-man yet! maybe I'll head to as certain store tomorrow and just buy one.

[NoahsMyBro]

Ron,

 

I assume the 2-3 hour drive isn't worthwhile (I'm in West Orange, NJ - 07052), but I'll give you a copy of Pac-Man if you want to pick it up. Fwiw, I'm about 20 minutes from the DP store so you could check it out too if you've never seen it.

 

-- Steve

[+Cafeman]

Thanks for the offer, Steve. It would be more like 5 hour drive from Pittsburgh. But I went down to "Groovy" on Carson St today and found a copy. In fact I just played about 10 games of it on the real system, but couldn't beat my highest score posted so far. * My 10 year old tried playing Pac-man with my 'fixed' 5200 controller, and he said "I thought you said you fixed this?". He's not a real gamer of course, unable to play with a 5200 stick. but in his defense, he's used to game pads and the keyboard , he never experienced the 'joystick' era much.

 

* also got an XE game system. Never owned one before,in fact never saw one in the wild before. Will play Donkey Kong on it later.

[NoahsMyBro]

I thought you were in Philly. Oh well. Pitt (well, Carnegie) would be about 7 hours, actually.

 

I never heard of Groovy, but it sounds neat.

Edited January 28, 2010 by NoahsMyBro

[cybercylon]

Thanks for the offer, Steve. It would be more like 5 hour drive from Pittsburgh. But I went down to "Groovy" on Carson St today and found a copy. In fact I just played about 10 games of it on the real system, but couldn't beat my highest score posted so far. * My 10 year old tried playing Pac-man with my 'fixed' 5200 controller, and he said "I thought you said you fixed this?". He's not a real gamer of course, unable to play with a 5200 stick. but in his defense, he's used to game pads and the keyboard , he never experienced the 'joystick' era much.

 

* also got an XE game system. Never owned one before,in fact never saw one in the wild before. Will play Donkey Kong on it later.

 

Did you get that XE at Groovy? Keep meaning to make it there, but I've either been working late or have to rush home to take one of the kids to an activity. About how much did it set you back because I've been looking for one as well. Would have though that and a 5200 game would have been Cash in Culture or Game Again territory. Looks like I need to check Groovy out unless you keep cleaning them out .

[+Cafeman]

Nope, I don't keep cleaning out Groovy. I don't think I ever saw an XE system in there before today. The "game expert" employee guy cleans, fixes , tests and prices the stuff but he was not there, but the owner was there, and she admits she isn't knowledgeable at all about video games. She was trying to sell me loose 5200 Pac-Man for $10 because it hadn't been priced, and next to it were CIB boxed Popeye and Frogger each for $10. I told her Pac-man isn't worth that much at all. So she said "how about $5". But ..

 

When I spotted the Xe, I bought it w/manuals/hookups/keyboard (no light gun or box) for $35 and I got her to throw the 5200 Pac-man loose cart in for free. I haven't hooked it up yet, and I already have an Atari 800XL (same games) so maybe I really won't want it after all. A wee bit pricier than I wanted, since it is basically a 5200 without the hassles, but it was an impulse buy. But if I make some homebrew games for the XL/XE/XE system line this year, it'd be really cool to play it on a real XE system w/friends who prolly never heard of the system.

 

Anyway , right now they have a bunch of 2600 games, several N64's, a 2600 Jr, I also saw a 2 or 3 boxed 7800 games, and I think NES stuff. You have to look through it, its crammed together right near the cash register. this guy came in with me, selling one of those Star Wars C3PO figure carrying cases loaded with the original old SW figures. She told him it'd be worth more if they still had their weapons, which he evidently lost. Then as I was looking at my stuff, some dad and his kid came in and tripped on the still-on-the-floor C3PO case and the kid said "What the heck is that?". It was funny ...

Edited January 28, 2010 by Cafeman

[cybercylon]

Nope, I don't keep cleaning out Groovy. I don't think I ever saw an XE system in there before today. The "game expert" employee guy cleans, fixes , tests and prices the stuff but he was not there, but the owner was there, and she admits she isn't knowledgeable at all about video games. She was trying to sell me loose 5200 Pac-Man for $10 because it hadn't been priced, and next to it were CIB boxed Popeye and Frogger each for $10. I told her Pac-man isn't worth that much at all. So she said "how about $5". But ..

 

When I spotted the Xe, I bought it w/manuals/hookups/keyboard (no light gun or box) for $35 and I got her to throw the 5200 Pac-man loose cart in for free. I haven't hooked it up yet, and I already have an Atari 800XL (same games) so maybe I really won't want it after all. A wee bit pricier than I wanted, since it is basically a 5200 without the hassles, but it was an impulse buy. But if I make some homebrew games for the XL/XE/XE system line this year, it'd be really cool to play it on a real XE system w/friends who prolly never heard of the system.

 

Anyway , right now they have a bunch of 2600 games, several N64's, a 2600 Jr, I also saw a 2 or 3 boxed 7800 games, and I think NES stuff. You have to look through it, its crammed together right near the cash register. this guy came in with me, selling one of those Star Wars C3PO figure carrying cases loaded with the original old SW figures. She told him it'd be worth more if they still had their weapons, which he evidently lost. Then as I was looking at my stuff, some dad and his kid came in and tripped on the still-on-the-floor C3PO case and the kid said "What the heck is that?". It was funny ...

 

I'd say you got a decent deal given that it was in the wild. I'd hang onto it.

 

A online dealer once made an honest mistake and shipped me the 5200 version of frogger instead of the colecovision one that I ordered. I was going to just let it go until I tried to play it. Quite unplayable. Fortunately, I was able to exchange it for the colecovision version.