Question about Atari Warner versions of 7800 games

[opcode]

Hi,

 

Guys, I am doing a little research and perhaps some good soul here could help me.

I know that the 7800 was released in very limited quantities in 1984. Did Atari Warner also release any of the games with it?

I am asking because I found a scan of one of the (1984) boxes in the Internet, I think it was from Joust, and found the box layout to be much more appealing.

So I was wondering if someone here owns any of those original Atari Warner 7800 games, and if it would be possible to send me scans of everything, including cartridge label and manual. A full set (for a single game) would be enough, but more is always good. That would be greatly appreciated.

The other question I have is about the physical cartridge. Did Atari Warner use the same plastic case (for their 7800 1984 releases) as Atari Corp? The Atari Corp cases just don't look right to me, they barely fit in the cartridge slot, and some of them require you to push the cartridge really hard into the slot. It seems like the cases were the wrong size, so that is why I am asking. Anyway, in case someone here owns one of those original cartridges and can send me detailed pictures, I would really appreciate.

BTW, do you guys have any idea how much they are worth (the 1984 cartridges)? I don't remember ever seeing one on eBay, and perhaps I would need to destroy one of them for what I have in mind...

 

Thanks!

 

Eduardo

[opcode]

Ok, thanks to Atarimuseum.com, I found this:

 

http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/consoles/7800/mspacman_84_label.jpg

 

If you check carefuly the picture you can see that the label has marks on both top corners that suggest the original cartridge case was the same as Atari Corp used later. That is too bad. I still cannot understand why they created a case that doesn't fit as nicely as it should, unless Atari Corp remade the tools later.

In fact I checked two games, Pole Position II and Xevious, and at least my copies have slightly different cases.

 

My second question is, my Atari 7800 doesn't have that protective door in the cartridge connector, so why the need for the door opening pins in the 7800 cartridges? Without those pins they could have done a case with no holes under the label.

[+Mitch]

Oh boy, where to start.

 

I'm guessing the '84 Joust box you found was from my website. The cart and instructions found inside were the '86 versions so it seems to have been a case of Atari reusing old stock (ie the '84 box).

The only '84 release that I know for sure is Pole Position 2 since many copies of the '84 copyright version have been found. It was the pack-in game so no box was included. This is the standard black and white Pole Position 2 cart label that Atari used on the later Pole Position 2 carts with the only difference being the copyright date. There are four other carts that have been found with the early '84 version of the artwork, they are Centipede, Dig Dug, Joust and Ms Pac-Man. I do not know if they were ever released with this label but considering that only a couple copies of each are known to exist I suspect they were not. As far as I know Joust is the only '84 box that has been found and only a couple copies. I am not aware of any instruction manuals that have been found.

Curt may have more info about this.

 

I am attaching pictures of the four other cart labels, I found them on the net at one point but I can't find the source right now. Of course, if anyone has these carts and wants to sell them to me I would be happy to scan them myself.

 

The cartridge shells are the same as the 2600 ones. The issue you are seeing is because Atari revised the 7800 cartridge guide/housing at lease once and probably twice and each time it was more poorly designed than the predecessor. The original design worked fine and didn't have the issues of the later models. Why Atari re-designed it is a mystery unless the molds wore out and they had lost the original design blueprints.

 

As far as value, it's hard to say. I think the ones that sold on eBay eventually went for around $100 a cart but there was a bogus bidder on the auction that totally threw things off. It ended up being part of the reason I didn't win the auction. It was probably some stupid kid messing around on eBay since the same person also caused problems on many video-game auctions at that time. I wouldn't be surprised to see them go for a bit more than that now. If you are looking for an '84 Pole Position 2 then that's a different story. If you search eBay you can probably find one for a few dollars. You will probably need to email the sellers though to find out the copyright date.

 

I hope that answered most of your questions.

 

Mitch

[+Mitch]

Ok, thanks to Atarimuseum.com, I found this:

 

http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/consoles/7800/mspacman_84_label.jpg

 

If you check carefuly the picture you can see that the label has marks on both top corners that suggest the original cartridge case was the same as Atari Corp used later. That is too bad. I still cannot understand why they created a case that doesn't fit as nicely as it should, unless Atari Corp remade the tools later.

In fact I checked two games, Pole Position II and Xevious, and at least my copies have slightly different cases.

 

My second question is, my Atari 7800 doesn't have that protective door in the cartridge connector, so why the need for the door opening pins in the 7800 cartridges? Without those pins they could have done a case with no holes under the label.

 

It looks like you posted while I was typing.

 

The '86 copyright 7800 releases do have the dust cover. It's the same dust cover that the 2600 '86 copyright games use. The '87 copyright and later 2600 and 7800 games used the revised cart shell without the dustcover. This was most likely a cost saving measure.

 

Mitch

[opcode]

Now this is all pretty cool. Thanks a lot for all the info.

So from that I am now assuming that actually Atari didn't distribute any games for 7800 in 84, except for the pack-in Pole Position II.

And thanks for the pictures, I had never noticed the subtle "grid" behind the artwork, very cool.

Now about the case, you said that the cartridges released in 86 had the dust cover. I am supposing you are refering to the 2nd variation of the dust cover, without the lock mechanism, correct? I have some Atari 2600 games with that, but they are all 84 releases (still Atari Inc), like Mario Bros, Crystal Castle and a few others.

Which kind of case did the 84 version of Pole Position II use?

 

Eduardo

[+Mitch]

Now about the case, you said that the cartridges released in 86 had the dust cover. I am supposing you are refering to the 2nd variation of the dust cover, without the lock mechanism, correct? I have some Atari 2600 games with that, but they are all 84 releases (still Atari Inc), like Mario Bros, Crystal Castle and a few others.

Which kind of case did the 84 version of Pole Position II use?

 

Eduardo

 

Yes, the '86 carts had the later variation dust covers without the locking mech. The '84 Pole Position 2 used the cheaper cart style that all of the later post '87 7800 and 2600 carts used.

 

Mitch

[opcode]

Now about the case, you said that the cartridges released in 86 had the dust cover. I am supposing you are refering to the 2nd variation of the dust cover, without the lock mechanism, correct? I have some Atari 2600 games with that, but they are all 84 releases (still Atari Inc), like Mario Bros, Crystal Castle and a few others.

Which kind of case did the 84 version of Pole Position II use?

 

Eduardo

 

Yes, the '86 carts had the later variation dust covers without the locking mech. The '84 Pole Position 2 used the cheaper cart style that all of the later post '87 7800 and 2600 carts used.

 

Mitch

 

Hi Mitch,

 

Perhaps not all of them. Check what I just found...

 

Notice the hole under the "II". That is a dust cover cartridge for sure, probably 2nd version.

We are going to find out...

 

Eduardo

Edited April 21, 2010 by opcode

[+Mitch]

Hi Mitch,

 

Perhaps not all of them. Check what I just found...

 

Notice the hole under the "II". That is a dust cover cartridge for sure, probably 2nd version.

We are going to find out...

 

Eduardo

 

Interesting, both of my '84 Pole Position 2 carts have the other style cart shell. I wonder if this is another case of extra labels being reused on later stock. Where did you find that cart pic by the way?

 

Mitch

[opcode]

Hi Mitch,

 

Perhaps not all of them. Check what I just found...

 

Notice the hole under the "II". That is a dust cover cartridge for sure, probably 2nd version.

We are going to find out...

 

Eduardo

 

Interesting, both of my '84 Pole Position 2 carts have the other style cart shell. I wonder if this is another case of extra labels being reused on later stock. Where did you find that cart pic by the way?

 

Mitch

 

eBay. I just bought it with BIN, only $1.

 

Of course we are assuming that the free sliding circuit board cover type started in early 84 with Atari Inc (I wasn't living in the US, so there is no way I can know), but unless someone can prove that the free sliding type started with the Tramiels, I think it is a good guess to assume that was the case Atari Inc had originally intended for the 7800.

[+Mitch]

The easiest way to tell is to check the board. The '84 Pole Position 2 carts will use the CO25474 board which uses two 16K ROMs while the later versions will use the CO24926 board which has one 32K ROM.

Check this page by Dan Boris for more cart board info.

 

Nice pickup, by the way.

 

Mitch

[opcode]

Now here is something interesting...

 

http://atari7800.org/museum/7800NTSCsoftwarelist.htm

 

According to that software list in your website, some games had already been released to vendors before the Tramiels took over (or so I understand). Desert Falcon was going to be a 32KB game, not 48KB as the eventually released version. Millipede, Jr Pac-Man and Track & Field seemed to be in some advanced stage of development too. The lack of a P/N for Track & Field may indicate they were rushing the game to have it released in time for the Olympics.

And they were going to use a 32KB EPROM for the built-in Pole Position II + BIOS. Funny that Atari never released the 7800 with the built-in game. I never opened a 7800 but it seems to me that the place for the 32KB EPROM was already there. Perhaps the Pole Position II + BIOS program never got completed?

[+Mitch]

Yeah, there were several surprises when I got that document.

 

A prototype of the Pole Position 2 BIOS has been found. The current NTSC BIOS is only 4K but the spot on the motherboard can take a chip up to 32K so that is not a problem. The BIOS with the built in Asteroids game is 16K BTW.

 

Mitch

[GroovyBee]

Funny that Atari never released the 7800 with the built-in game.

 

Not in PAL land. We get Asteroids as the built in game.