The "Generally Satisfied with Stock 5200 Controllers" Thread

[Lord Helmet]

I actually love the feel of the stick itself, but the buttons are total thumb-busting crap. Who in the hell thought that side mounted buttons would be comfortable? (Inty, 7800, and CV controllers are just as bad for this very reason)

Edited August 26, 2010 by Lord Helmet

[carmel_andrews]

Having never met a sexy beautiful 5200 in the fleshy (as in up close and personal) i can't comment (bad on mr atari inc. for not making them them avail. in pal land)

 

Anyhow, just a thought to the anti 5200 joystick/controller brigade, would you still complain if atari had bundled some sort of 5200 to atari 2600 joystick convertor/adapter which the standard 5200 package (therefore bumping up the base price, bearing in mind the 5200 was already selling at over 200 USD) so you can use the standard 2600/a8 type joysticks with the 5200

 

Or alternatively, to bundle the 5200 with one of those sms/nes stylee controllers (or europads as the 7800 people call them)

Edited August 27, 2010 by carmel_andrews

[jmetal88]

Hmm, I just had an idea. I should add a port and a switch to my 5200 controllers to allow the use of other types of controllers without the need for a Y cable. I just need to make sure there's enough room to squeeze the components in there, as well as find a way to mount the port so that the controller isn't uncomfortable to hold.

 

Then again, after saying all that, maybe a Y cable is a better solution.

 

Or I could always try building one of these - it's super complicated, but actually playing the games would be very straightforward:

 

http://www94.pair.com/jsoper/jag_adapter.html

[rxd]

I tolerate them as well, but if there was an accessible option to use something different that does not involve me selling my first born or hours of hassle modding a PC joystick (no time or patience), then I would use the alternative and stay away from the stock controller.

"Tolerate" is about as enthusiastic as I can be about the stock controllers anymore as well. Once I acquired an alternative (Comp Pro), I became even less forgiving of the stock controller's faults. Poor ergonomics and unreliability are the stick's biggest problems. Analog control is a mixed bag--great for some games, substantially less than ideal for others. If the stock controllers of the 5200's principle competitors (CV and INTV), as well as it's successor (7800), weren't arguably worse (from an ergonomic standpoint at least) I would probably have no patience for the 5200's controllers whatsoever.

 

Well that's the whole point isn't it? When I say I like the 5200 controller it isn't that I think it's better than the 360 controller, far from it. I like it compared to what was available at the time. In my opinion it was as good if not better than any other stock controller at the time. But it's like saying the original King Kong had great special effects. Not compared to Avatar it doesn't, but you have to put them both into perspective of when they came out. Same thing with the 5200 controllers...

[Atari Joe]

Well that's the whole point isn't it? When I say I like the 5200 controller it isn't that I think it's better than the 360 controller, far from it. I like it compared to what was available at the time. In my opinion it was as good if not better than any other stock controller at the time. But it's like saying the original King Kong had great special effects. Not compared to Avatar it doesn't, but you have to put them both into perspective of when they came out. Same thing with the 5200 controllers...

 

I think the 5200 controller was brilliant on paper, but a lemon in the hand. If it had been sturdy and reliable with a self-centering analog stick, reliable buttons that didnt wear out, and had one large hardened plastic fire button on each side (like the 7800) rather than two different tiny rubbery buttons on each side, the controller could be worth getting enthusiastic about. I never liked phone pads on joysticks. Not on the 5200, not on the CV, not the mattellivision, and not the Jaguars. Have you guys ever played with the Atari 2700 remote control joystick? It feels like a dream. It's simple and fluid and all in one. I would have liked the 5200 joy stick to be based on the 2700 one but with a wire, and two fire buttons instead of one.

 

And I think Avatar is just a lot of hype. In my opinion I didn't see any special effects in Avatar that were really all that much better than what was in Jurassic Park in 1993.

[Lord Thag]

Once I got the guts of my 5200 stick replaced with working parts, I liked them just fine. They suffer from the same thumb cramps as the 7800 'Painline' controllers, but otherwise, they work just dandy. The 'non centering' thing is less a problem and more a 'get used to it the way you had to with Dual Analog' kinda thing. It's fine, but it takes some getting used to.

 

All in all, I like them. They make 5200 Star Raiders the best version, with slick, fluid analog control. They also allow you to play Super Breakout/paddle-style games competently.

 

Never understood the hate outside of the unreliability.

Edited August 29, 2010 by Lord Thag

[mellis]

They suffer from the same thumb cramps as the 7800 'Painline' controllers, but otherwise, they work just dandy. The 'non centering' thing is less a problem and more a 'get used to it the way you had to with Dual Analog' kinda thing. It's fine, but it takes some getting used to.

 

 

I know what you mean regarding the thumb cramp issue. For games like Montezuma's Revenge, I don't have a problem with it, but I do with shooters like Defender, where you're constantly banging on the fire button. In that case, I usually hold the stick in my left hand, wrap my left middle finger around the bottom of the stick, and press the bottom-right fire button with that finger tip. I then use my left thumb to press the top-left button when I need smart bomb. For shooters, I find it pretty comfortable, but YMMV.

[Christophero Sly]

I know what you mean regarding the thumb cramp issue. For games like Montezuma's Revenge, I don't have a problem with it, but I do with shooters like Defender, where you're constantly banging on the fire button.

You're able to play Montezuma's Revenge with a stock controller? Impressive. I find the analog control of the CX-52 to be frustratingly unsuitable for that game.

[mellis]

You're able to play Montezuma's Revenge with a stock controller? Impressive. I find the analog control of the CX-52 to be frustratingly unsuitable for that game.

 

I LOVE monty on the 5200. I'm also quite fond of Pitfall II, and yes, I use the stock controllers to play that too.

[Divya16]

You're able to play Montezuma's Revenge with a stock controller? Impressive. I find the analog control of the CX-52 to be frustratingly unsuitable for that game.

 

I LOVE monty on the 5200. I'm also quite fond of Pitfall II, and yes, I use the stock controllers to play that too.

 

You can use it but it's not that good compared to digital joystick or even Wico.

[cybercylon]

You're able to play Montezuma's Revenge with a stock controller? Impressive. I find the analog control of the CX-52 to be frustratingly unsuitable for that game.

 

I LOVE monty on the 5200. I'm also quite fond of Pitfall II, and yes, I use the stock controllers to play that too.

 

I could be wrong, but maybe they did a better job of programming Pitfall II with the controller in mind. The control doesn't seem to be as touchy when moving pitfall Harry; you have to pretty much move the stick in the right direction unlike other games where the non self centering is a liability. In other words, Pitfall II is playable with the stock controller.

 

Just my opinion for what it is worth.

Edited August 29, 2010 by cybercylon

[AtariLeaf]

 

 

I think the 5200 controller was brilliant on paper, but a lemon in the hand.

 

I'd rather just play with a lemon

[Charlie_]

I love the 5200 stock stick. I also have no problem getting good scores using it. I have a Masterplay and a few Wico sticks. The Masterplay is nice to use sometimes, when I feel like using the 7800 gamepads. The Wico sticks are junk. The pots inside suck and adjusting that slider to get the stick to center is a pain at times.

 

I'm a big fan of the CV and Intellivision as well as the Atari consoles.

When you compare these 2 systems controllers to the 5200, the 5200 is the best.

The CV have that stubby stick and far throw side buttons. Add the super short coiled cable... what a piece of shit design.

The Intellivision disc and side buttons are laughable as a design too. Again, a 1 ft coiled cable? Crap.

 

Still I love gaming on all three and find the design of each controller gives that system a certain charm.

[TheLunarFox]

The title of this thread says it all. My 5200 wasn't planned and didn't come with the controllers, so I knew nothing about them until after I'd gotten the thing. Having used the controllers now, I'm generally satisfied with them. But so far I've only used them on Pacman and Star Wars the arcade game.

 

I can see though how a kid using them for the first time after playing the 2600 or playing in arcades would be very disappointed. They are definitely odd compared to the 2600 joysticks (and every other joystick I've ever known).

 

But from the eyes of an adult who'd never even heard of the 5200 until I'd seen it in the thrift shop, I'm not having as huge an issue as I worried I would when I first started reading up on the 5200. I find them to be sensitive so that I don't have to move them very much when I'm playing Pacman which means I use even less energy playing. (Most people call me lazy, but I consider myself efficient. )

 

And I actually like the soft fire buttons. Plus it's handy that they're the same on both sides. I'm a righty, but my boyfriend is a lefty, so it actually works out for him. Though I do find I have to hold the controller differently than I'm used to. Instead of using my right hand for the joystick and my thumb for the fire button, I'm using my left hand for the joystick and the fingers on my right hand for the fire buttons. Sounds awkward, but surprisingly I find it comfortable, especially since my fingers don't get as tired as my thumbs do, and I can swap fingers if one gets tired.

[atariksi]

The title of this thread says it all. My 5200 wasn't planned and didn't come with the controllers, so I knew nothing about them until after I'd gotten the thing. Having used the controllers now, I'm generally satisfied with them. But so far I've only used them on Pacman and Star Wars the arcade game.

...

Believe me for Pac-man, a digital joystick is the best. Star Wars runs pretty good using A5200 stock controller but I just can't stand the up/down being in reverse like Blaster which is not the controller's fault. It should be normal up is up and down is down like Missile Command.

 

But from the eyes of an adult who'd never even heard of the 5200 until I'd seen it in the thrift shop, I'm not having as huge an issue as I worried I would when I first started reading up on the 5200. I find them to be sensitive so that I don't have to move them very much when I'm playing Pacman which means I use even less energy playing. (Most people call me lazy, but I consider myself efficient. )

 

The big problem is with the buttons and Pac-man doesn't use the fire button unless you have some hacked version that fires. Try playing Qix, Montezuma's Revenge, Donkey Kong, or other similar game with more active use of button(s).

 

And I actually like the soft fire buttons. Plus it's handy that they're the same on both sides. I'm a righty, but my boyfriend is a lefty, so it actually works out for him. Though I do find I have to hold the controller differently than I'm used to. Instead of using my right hand for the joystick and my thumb for the fire button, I'm using my left hand for the joystick and the fingers on my right hand for the fire buttons. Sounds awkward, but surprisingly I find it comfortable, especially since my fingers don't get as tired as my thumbs do, and I can swap fingers if one gets tired.

 

Well, the law of gravitation pulls things down toward the center of the earth so the Wico/A2600 joystick buttons are superior as you go with gravity and/or it's just they are bigger and easier to press and usually don't break down and become non-responsive.

[TheLunarFox]

Believe me for Pac-man, a digital joystick is the best. Star Wars runs pretty good using A5200 stock controller but I just can't stand the up/down being in reverse like Blaster which is not the controller's fault. It should be normal up is up and down is down like Missile Command.

 

Yeah, that threw me, especially because left and right are still normal. The first time I played, I actually tried holding the controller upside down, and it was actually a tiny bit easier for me that first time through, but I was using my thumb on the fire button which then tired out.

 

I can believe you, but I really don't see an issue with the stock controller. If I had an issue, I would search out another controller. Like for my 2600, I've never used the actual controllers. Been playing it since I was four or so, and I've actually always used one of our alternate controllers because I don't like the original controllers. I still don't use the actual controllers now as an adult and still use that alternate.

 

 

The big problem is with the buttons and Pac-man doesn't use the fire button unless you have some hacked version that fires. Try playing Qix, Montezuma's Revenge, Donkey Kong, or other similar game with more active use of button(s).

 

First off-- there's a hacked version of Pacman that fires? And I thought I'd seen it all. Clearly I haven't delved far enough into the dark underbelly of hacked Pacman games!

 

I was under the impression, as I read up on and learned about the controller before buying it, that one of the main complaints was the non-self centering stick. I didn't read too much about the fire buttons until I read through this thread.

 

I sort of hesitated to share my opinion on the controllers because I only have two games right now. It's possible that I'll change my mind when I get other games, but I've been having a lot of fun playing Star Wars, and that's pretty constant firing.

 

Clearly more playing is required which means I need more games. It's like an experiment.

[bohoki]

 

I sort of hesitated to share my opinion on the controllers because I only have two games right now. It's possible that I'll change my mind when I get other games, but I've been having a lot of fun playing Star Wars, and that's pretty constant firing.

 

Clearly more playing is required which means I need more games. It's like an experiment.

 

 

yea get moon patrol its really button intensive jump fire jump jump fire fire fire star wars you just hold the button down no other game demands that many rapid different button presses

 

maybe we need a list of 2 button required games

 

moon patrol

qix

pole position(even though i never touch the brake i just down shift)

[Divya16]

Believe me for Pac-man, a digital joystick is the best. Star Wars runs pretty good using A5200 stock controller but I just can't stand the up/down being in reverse like Blaster which is not the controller's fault. It should be normal up is up and down is down like Missile Command.

 

Yeah, that threw me, especially because left and right are still normal. The first time I played, I actually tried holding the controller upside down, and it was actually a tiny bit easier for me that first time through, but I was using my thumb on the fire button which then tired out.

 

I can believe you, but I really don't see an issue with the stock controller. If I had an issue, I would search out another controller. Like for my 2600, I've never used the actual controllers. Been playing it since I was four or so, and I've actually always used one of our alternate controllers because I don't like the original controllers. I still don't use the actual controllers now as an adult and still use that alternate.

 

 

The big problem is with the buttons and Pac-man doesn't use the fire button unless you have some hacked version that fires. Try playing Qix, Montezuma's Revenge, Donkey Kong, or other similar game with more active use of button(s).

 

First off-- there's a hacked version of Pacman that fires? And I thought I'd seen it all. Clearly I haven't delved far enough into the dark underbelly of hacked Pacman games!

 

I was under the impression, as I read up on and learned about the controller before buying it, that one of the main complaints was the non-self centering stick. I didn't read too much about the fire buttons until I read through this thread.

Fire buttons go bad often so once they become hard to press, you will have a hard time with games that are button intensive. I had a controller that seemed to work perfectly until I plugged in Qix and I couldn't get the red box which requires moving with the button pressed and I found out that it wasn't always pressed since it was intermittently making contact. Then even with it working, it's hard to move around and press the button given its location and size.

 

I heard of MouseTrap that requires the fire button which is like pac-man; don't think that was ported to Atari 5200.

[TheLunarFox]

Fire buttons go bad often so once they become hard to press, you will have a hard time with games that are button intensive. I had a controller that seemed to work perfectly until I plugged in Qix and I couldn't get the red box which requires moving with the button pressed and I found out that it wasn't always pressed since it was intermittently making contact. Then even with it working, it's hard to move around and press the button given its location and size.

 

I heard of MouseTrap that requires the fire button which is like pac-man; don't think that was ported to Atari 5200.

 

 

Will they still go bad often even with the aluminum foil trick mentioned here?

[Divya16]

Fire buttons go bad often so once they become hard to press, you will have a hard time with games that are button intensive. I had a controller that seemed to work perfectly until I plugged in Qix and I couldn't get the red box which requires moving with the button pressed and I found out that it wasn't always pressed since it was intermittently making contact. Then even with it working, it's hard to move around and press the button given its location and size.

 

I heard of MouseTrap that requires the fire button which is like pac-man; don't think that was ported to Atari 5200.

 

 

Will they still go bad often even with the aluminum foil trick mentioned here?

 

Never tried the aluminum stuff, but I don't like the Atari 5200 stock controller buttons even if they work. If you have Atari 5200 trackball, you can see how the fire buttons should be-- on top and with springs and big. So I have mainly used Wico stick and some digital joystick schemes. If you use Atari 2600 style joysticks a lot, it's easier to compare the two.

[tripletopper]

The problem (at least as I see it) is that it's not the analog stick ITSELF that's the problem.  It's the fact that most games that were made for the 5200 were were envisioned with a 4-way or 8-way joystick.

 

And yes, the non-standard non-centering joystick does not work well for 4/8-way games, but the fact it doesn't center comes in handy for Star Wars, Super Breakout, and Kaboom, were you have to "dial a position.  i can't think of an orignal 5200 game that would have been better if the stick natively centered.

 

If you don't believe me, the closest way to play Warlords with a standard Xbox One stick is by using the analog stick in"absolute mode."  The problem IS the centering resistance when it come to accurately "dialing a posiiton."  Or try Arkanoid on the 360 (or on the one using backwards compatibility and compare that to the NES verison using a real Vaus controller.

 

And I assume the 5200 version of Star Wars is faster and more arcade-like than the CV version because the CV is slowed down to make the trench run possible with a digital stick.  BTW I know the colecovisioun version has "press any key to flip y axis"  as long as you haven't started the game yet.  As I don't own the 5200 verison, I suggest someone press a keypad button on the select mission screen and see if that inverts the stick and then tell us.

And I heard the "Best Electronics gold controller" contact solution is guaranteed for some crazy length like 50 years.  We're talking last will and testament-type stuff.  That fixes the buttons.   The analog joystick rarely fails.   It's the buttons and keys.

[jnice]

I like the stock controllers for most games, and have used the Best Electronics materials to rebuild some.  Always interesting to read comments of people saying the stock controllers are terrible for certain games...and then I end up winning some of the AA high score contest rounds while playing the games using the stock controller.

[tripletopper]

In general, in arcade games, if you want to stop, you just let go a little bit, it automatically centers, and boom... instant top.

 

Unfortunately analog controls in a relative motion scheme is more like a car than traditional arcade games.  You "coast" until you either need to gun it, turn the wheel, or slam the brakes.

 

I understand why non-self-centering was used.  In Kaboom and Super Breakout, you would be fatigued if you had to fight the centering resistance of an analog stick in absolute (aka position tuning) mode.  That's how Atari Paddles were designed, so it's logical to extend it in 2 dimensions na similar way.  (don't believe me?  Try Warlords in absolute mode [which is closest to the original intent of the game] with the analog thumbpad.  #NumbThumb)

 

The 2600 had appropriate tools for individual games, like a Joystick, a pair of paddles, a steering controller (basically a spinner which stops dead when released.) a keypad, a Track N Field controller, A Trackball, a Light Gun, and a 3-button controller (Booster Grip).

 

With the 5200, they tried to make a swiss army knife.   But merging a joystick, which should center, with a 2-dimensional paddle, which have traditionally not centered, forces you to make compromises somewhere.

 

I think the 7800 back in the day only used 2 controllers, the 2 button joystick (even though as lot of games could have used the 1 button, even Xevious had a one button mode, though it's natively 2 buttons)  and the light gun.  I know 7800 Centipede TB was made many years later, but I have seen no support on any controller other than the standard stick and the gun.  Assuming there are no other retro-brews, I think I'm right, unless someone can point me to another example.