Best Electronics Gold Contact 5200 Joystick?

[Divya16]

I'd like to know how someone asking about whether the Best Electronics controller rebuild kits are worth getting degenerated into a fanboy argument about which controllers are the best replacements for the Atari ones.

 

How is it degenerated? I only see well said opinions in this thread.

 

I think the OP received the answer he was looking for very early on in the thread.

 

The best gold dot kits are working fantastic for most who have used them.

 

The experiment of digital joystick vs. analog for same games has already been performed by thousands; all those who play on Atari 800 and Atari 5200 the same or similar games and are used to both controllers know that they prefer the Atari 800 for most games like DK, Miner, Pac-man, Ms. Pac-man, Berzerk, BBSB, Mario Brothers, River Raid, Qix, etc.

 

I'll take the trackball of A5200 on Missile Command, Galaxian, and Space Invaders, but the trackball is a subjective thing as some people using digital joystick can do better at these games as well.

[Charlie_]

 

The experiment of digital joystick vs. analog for same games has already been performed by thousands; all those who play on Atari 800 and Atari 5200 the same or similar games and are used to both controllers know that they prefer the Atari 800 for most games like DK, Miner, Pac-man, Ms. Pac-man, Berzerk, BBSB, Mario Brothers, River Raid, Qix, etc.

 

I'll take the trackball of A5200 on Missile Command, Galaxian, and Space Invaders, but the trackball is a subjective thing as some people using digital joystick can do better at these games as well.

 

I know what your saying. Just because most like something doesn't mean its better. Point is that its not the trackball that is subjective. It is all subjective.

[Ransom]

I know what your saying. Just because most like something doesn't mean its better. Point is that its not the trackball that is subjective. It is all subjective.

 

Yup. I loves me some 5200 controller, and I can even get along with the CV and Inty controllers. But my wife pretty much needs either an arcade-style controller (NES Advantage and the like) or a modern controller such as for the Playstation. Anything else, and she's gonna be frustrated.

 

I often wonder how much of it has to do with what we used originally. When I started gaming, the industry was trying so many different controllers. But when my wife started, they'd pretty much settled on the joypad. A theory I toy with is that my experience set up my mind to see a broad array of things as controllers and to have a high tolerance for differences in controllers, while those who started gaming when my wife did (and thereafter) see a far narrower range of things as valid controllers.

 

I know it's not valid for everyone, but it's something I think about sometimes.

[OldAtarian]

I know what your saying. Just because most like something doesn't mean its better. Point is that its not the trackball that is subjective. It is all subjective.

 

Yup. I loves me some 5200 controller, and I can even get along with the CV and Inty controllers. But my wife pretty much needs either an arcade-style controller (NES Advantage and the like) or a modern controller such as for the Playstation. Anything else, and she's gonna be frustrated.

 

I often wonder how much of it has to do with what we used originally. When I started gaming, the industry was trying so many different controllers. But when my wife started, they'd pretty much settled on the joypad. A theory I toy with is that my experience set up my mind to see a broad array of things as controllers and to have a high tolerance for differences in controllers, while those who started gaming when my wife did (and thereafter) see a far narrower range of things as valid controllers.

 

I know it's not valid for everyone, but it's something I think about sometimes.

 

The NES pretty much forced everyone into a certain mindset concerning controllers. Every controller on the market today can trace at least some of it's roots directly back to the NES gamepad controller, and that includes the Wiimote.

[Charlie_]

Yup. I loves me some 5200 controller, and I can even get along with the CV and Inty controllers. But my wife pretty much needs either an arcade-style controller (NES Advantage and the like) or a modern controller such as for the Playstation. Anything else, and she's gonna be frustrated.

 

I often wonder how much of it has to do with what we used originally. When I started gaming, the industry was trying so many different controllers. But when my wife started, they'd pretty much settled on the joypad. A theory I toy with is that my experience set up my mind to see a broad array of things as controllers and to have a high tolerance for differences in controllers, while those who started gaming when my wife did (and thereafter) see a far narrower range of things as valid controllers.

 

I know it's not valid for everyone, but it's something I think about sometimes.

 

I think I have a retarded left thumb. I try to use gamepads and I just can't do well with them!

[Divya16]

I know what your saying. Just because most like something doesn't mean its better. Point is that its not the trackball that is subjective. It is all subjective.

 

Yup. I loves me some 5200 controller, and I can even get along with the CV and Inty controllers. But my wife pretty much needs either an arcade-style controller (NES Advantage and the like) or a modern controller such as for the Playstation. Anything else, and she's gonna be frustrated.

 

I often wonder how much of it has to do with what we used originally. When I started gaming, the industry was trying so many different controllers. But when my wife started, they'd pretty much settled on the joypad. A theory I toy with is that my experience set up my mind to see a broad array of things as controllers and to have a high tolerance for differences in controllers, while those who started gaming when my wife did (and thereafter) see a far narrower range of things as valid controllers.

 

I know it's not valid for everyone, but it's something I think about sometimes.

 

If every type of controller was subjective in the type of control, they wouldn't be selling so many adapters to use digital joystick and other types on the PCs. You would get similar scores using arrow keys. I actually used the standard A5200 controller for a longer time than the one I use now which is either Wico or digital joystick. And I still get better scores with the digital joystick. Nothing to do with tolerance; some sticks don't respond as well as others. Trackballs and Paddles are better only because you can get the pinpoint control for certain games that need it. You certainly will perform much worse using stock A5200 with breakout than Trackball or Paddles. I think I get like 5X score using Paddle than A5200 stick. How can anyone shove these facts under the rug is beyond me.

[Ransom]

If every type of controller was subjective in the type of control, they wouldn't be selling so many adapters to use digital joystick and other types on the PCs. You would get similar scores using arrow keys. I actually used the standard A5200 controller for a longer time than the one I use now which is either Wico or digital joystick. And I still get better scores with the digital joystick. Nothing to do with tolerance; some sticks don't respond as well as others. Trackballs and Paddles are better only because you can get the pinpoint control for certain games that need it. You certainly will perform much worse using stock A5200 with breakout than Trackball or Paddles. I think I get like 5X score using Paddle than A5200 stick. How can anyone shove these facts under the rug is beyond me.

 

I'm not sure anything's being swept under the rug.

 

To me, it's more the difference between the golfer who buys the latest high-tech clubs to shave a few strokes off his score and the old guy still using clubs from the 1950s. Each is enjoying the same game, but the approach is different.

 

For me, using the original controllers is an important part of the experience. If I can use the controller, I go with it. If I can't, I don't. Whether a different controller would get me a higher score doesn't matter much to me. For you, that may not be the case. And there's nothing wrong with either approach.

 

(For an example of where I can't use the original controller, look at this post. I think everyone has their limits. Mine is two-button CV games.)

[Charlie_]

If every type of controller was subjective in the type of control, they wouldn't be selling so many adapters to use digital joystick and other types on the PCs. You would get similar scores using arrow keys. I actually used the standard A5200 controller for a longer time than the one I use now which is either Wico or digital joystick. And I still get better scores with the digital joystick. Nothing to do with tolerance; some sticks don't respond as well as others. Trackballs and Paddles are better only because you can get the pinpoint control for certain games that need it. You certainly will perform much worse using stock A5200 with breakout than Trackball or Paddles. I think I get like 5X score using Paddle than A5200 stick. How can anyone shove these facts under the rug is beyond me.

 

I'm not sure anything's being swept under the rug.

 

To me, it's more the difference between the golfer who buys the latest high-tech clubs to shave a few strokes off his score and the old guy still using clubs from the 1950s. Each is enjoying the same game, but the approach is different.

 

For me, using the original controllers is an important part of the experience. If I can use the controller, I go with it. If I can't, I don't. Whether a different controller would get me a higher score doesn't matter much to me. For you, that may not be the case. And there's nothing wrong with either approach.

 

(For an example of where I can't use the original controller, look at this post. I think everyone has their limits. Mine is two-button CV games.)

 

The confusion is the misunderstanding that what is popular is "better". Better for most is better for all?

Bottom line, it is subjective to the individual and their abilities.

[Ransom]

The confusion is the misunderstanding that what is popular is "better". Better for most is better for all?

Bottom line, it is subjective to the individual and their abilities.

 

Well put.

[atariksi]

The confusion is the misunderstanding that what is popular is "better". Better for most is better for all?

Bottom line, it is subjective to the individual and their abilities.

 

Well put.

 

Your choice may be subjective but the controllers are not. Better control is the point I was making. That's what controllers are made for-- for controlling things. Ones that provide better control ARE better objectively. Using a steering wheel (like a big paddle) in a car is better than using arrow keys, stock A5200 controller, or A2600 joystick. Because it's OBJECTIVELY less prone to error give the task it's meant to do. It provides better control for the wheel in turning in exact amounts.

 

You can even say F=m*a is subjective if your experiments aren't done properly. But someone's inability to experiment doesn't make it subjective. If experiment is done properly, F=m*a. If a few come up with F=m*a*a or F=2*m*a, those are considered biased results.

 

I think I'll start my own thread on this.

[+wood_jl]

The NES pretty much forced everyone into a certain mindset concerning controllers. Every controller on the market today can trace at least some of it's roots directly back to the NES gamepad controller, and that includes the Wiimote.

 

I don't think the NES forced anyone to do anything. The only "mindset" that the NES controller may have imparted upon me was that it be SIMPLE and DURABLE. To this day, every [nearly] 25-year old NES controller I get for 50-cents at Goodwill works.....AND PERFECTLY no matter if it's a dog-chewed piece of shit. If that's a mindset to put people into, I say "more power to them."

[jaybird3rd]

I don't think the NES forced anyone to do anything. The only "mindset" that the NES controller may have imparted upon me was that it be SIMPLE and DURABLE. To this day, every [nearly] 25-year old NES controller I get for 50-cents at Goodwill works.....AND PERFECTLY no matter if it's a dog-chewed piece of shit. If that's a mindset to put people into, I say "more power to them."

Well, the NES gamepad did reflect a certain transition in the evolution of game designs and game controllers. I talked about this once when I tried to explain why using gamepads with the 2600 and 7800 never worked for me:

 

... I find gamepads to be poorly-suited for the kinds of games that were made for early consoles like the 2600. I forget who first said it, but someone pointed out once that the transition from joysticks to gamepads was a result of a paradigm shift in game design that occurred with the NES.

 

Early systems like the 2600 were sprite-driven designs, which lent themselves naturally to games that primarily involved moving objects around on the screen (games like Pac-Man, for example). Since movement "commands" were the primary input from the player, the directional controls were designed to be used by the right hand (the dominant and best-coordinated hand for most players), while the more intermittent action button was given to the left hand.

 

From the NES forward, the situation was reversed. The primary emphasis became rapid action button combinations, so those were moved to the right hand, while the lesser-used directional pad was moved to the left. One example of this are games like Super Mario Brothers and most NES platformers, where the directional pad is mostly held in one direction for extended periods (during walking, etc) and the players spend most of their effort jumping/shooting with the action buttons.

 

Perhaps other players (such as those who grew up on gamepads) feel differently, but I think this is the reason I've found myself less coordinated and more easily fatigued whenever I try to play 2600/7800 games with a gamepad: it just doesn't give me the level of control and comfort that I can get with the joystick, since most of those classic games rely heavily on the directionals.

And yes, I have had my fair share of bad/nonfunctional NES controllers of all kinds, so they aren't immune to failure.

 

But, keeping this on topic ... I recently got my first 5200, a nice 4-port "asterisk" unit without any controllers, and I fully intend to get at least two Best Electronics gold contact refurbished joysticks as soon as I can save up enough money. Reading through Brad Koda's 5200 joystick pages on the Best Electronics website, I'm amazed at the amount of work and research that has gone into fixing what was wrong with the 5200 controller design and finally making it as reliable as it should have been from the beginning.

[Charlie_]

The NES pretty much forced everyone into a certain mindset concerning controllers. Every controller on the market today can trace at least some of it's roots directly back to the NES gamepad controller, and that includes the Wiimote.

 

I don't think the NES forced anyone to do anything. The only "mindset" that the NES controller may have imparted upon me was that it be SIMPLE and DURABLE. To this day, every [nearly] 25-year old NES controller I get for 50-cents at Goodwill works.....AND PERFECTLY no matter if it's a dog-chewed piece of shit. If that's a mindset to put people into, I say "more power to them."

 

Funny, I took my NES out tonight to play Gauntlet and I couldnt start the game... the Start button doesnt work.

Coincidence!

[+wood_jl]

And yes, I have had my fair share of bad/nonfunctional NES controllers of all kinds, so they aren't immune to failure.

 

Funny, I took my NES out tonight to play Gauntlet and I couldnt start the game... the Start button doesnt work.

Coincidence!

 

 

So I'm to pretend that NES controllers are as inherently unreliable as 5200 controllers? Sorry, I think not. They're not indestructible, but chances are if you find an NES in the wild, the controllers work. If you find a 5200, near certainty they are broken. Just fact, not NES-fanboy drivel. Not 5200 bashing. Just fact. I don't know why people who love the 5200 have such a sore spot for this fact, but it's obviously there. If I were a 5200 lover, I'd simply admit the controllers suck, and that I'm willing to deal with it, and willing and able to spend the money to fix it. That's the entire point of this thread - asking if Best's Gold 5200 joystick ($expensive$) is worth it. Is it not? I'm not concerned with preference - who likes what controller, that's a "to each his own" decision.

[Charlie_]

And yes, I have had my fair share of bad/nonfunctional NES controllers of all kinds, so they aren't immune to failure.

 

Funny, I took my NES out tonight to play Gauntlet and I couldnt start the game... the Start button doesnt work.

Coincidence!

 

 

So I'm to pretend that NES controllers are as inherently unreliable as 5200 controllers? Sorry, I think not. They're not indestructible, but chances are if you find an NES in the wild, the controllers work. If you find a 5200, near certainty they are broken. Just fact, not NES-fanboy drivel. Not 5200 bashing. Just fact. I don't know why people who love the 5200 have such a sore spot for this fact, but it's obviously there. If I were a 5200 lover, I'd simply admit the controllers suck, and that I'm willing to deal with it, and willing and able to spend the money to fix it. That's the entire point of this thread - asking if Best's Gold 5200 joystick ($expensive$) is worth it. Is it not? I'm not concerned with preference - who likes what controller, that's a "to each his own" decision.

 

Wow, what a bunch of shit cause my controller didnt work. I didnt say any of that. Seems you need to turn what you said back at yourself.... seems your the one with a "sore spot".

 

I just found that coincidence funny. And a pencil eraser had me playing Gauntlet on my NES in no time,

[+wood_jl]

And yes, I have had my fair share of bad/nonfunctional NES controllers of all kinds, so they aren't immune to failure.

 

Funny, I took my NES out tonight to play Gauntlet and I couldnt start the game... the Start button doesnt work.

Coincidence!

 

 

So I'm to pretend that NES controllers are as inherently unreliable as 5200 controllers? Sorry, I think not. They're not indestructible, but chances are if you find an NES in the wild, the controllers work. If you find a 5200, near certainty they are broken. Just fact, not NES-fanboy drivel. Not 5200 bashing. Just fact. I don't know why people who love the 5200 have such a sore spot for this fact, but it's obviously there. If I were a 5200 lover, I'd simply admit the controllers suck, and that I'm willing to deal with it, and willing and able to spend the money to fix it. That's the entire point of this thread - asking if Best's Gold 5200 joystick ($expensive$) is worth it. Is it not? I'm not concerned with preference - who likes what controller, that's a "to each his own" decision.

 

Wow, what a bunch of shit cause my controller didnt work.

My, my, settle down!

 

I didnt say any of that. Seems you need to turn what you said back at yourself.... seems your the one with a "sore spot".

 

Not really; I don't have anything to be sore over.

 

I just found that coincidence funny. And a pencil eraser had me playing Gauntlet on my NES in no time,

Glad it worked out. Pencil eraser, eh? Never tried it.

[backin89]

Pencil erasers work for a variety of things including cartridge contacts tho i rarely use that method. As for the Best contacts, for the money, they're bull. Too expensive for what is an easy fix and can be done for free in most cases. I've been working on 5200's and their controllers for over 20 years and never once had to buy their parts. Never had a problem with the controllers either. To me, they are just too high on alot of their stuff. Now back around 89, 90, they wasn't too bad. They had 5200 populated 4-port motherboards for around $40-$45. At that time, it didn't seem so bad but now, you can usually pick up a whole unit for that much or less.