carmel_andrews Posted November 2, 2010 Share Posted November 2, 2010 (edited) Links only (one including pics) http://www.zb3.net/consoles/atari/jaguar/ taken from the 2nd last paragraph Before this final collapse of the Atari Jaguar, the Atari Corporation had already begun the development of the Jaguar II. They were expecting 7 processors on three different chips that would be running at roughly 53 MHz. They had already made several prototypes but due to the collapse of Atari Jaguar, the Jaguar II was never to see production. http://jagcube.atari.org/jaguartwo.html Some juicy sexy pics of the jaguar II mobo...care to trade in your wife/fianc'e or GF for one of these beauties http://www.intersites.co.uk/87125/index.html taken from the text The Atari Jaguar II (or Jaguar Duo) was intended to be a successor to the Atari Jaguar, which was to contain the features of both the Jaguar cartridge and Jaguar CD whilst making major improvements to their specifications and addressing shortcomings in their architecture. The project was coded 'Midsummer', with the two main chips named Oberon and Puck (references to characters in A Midsummer Night's Dream). The unit was to be software compatible with previous Jaguar models and used newer technology to speed up the Jaguar system. Development of the project began in January 1994, and working prototypes were showed to developers in early 1995. The Oberon graphics chip (which replaced the Tom chip from Jaguar), taped out and was running in this prototype. Its companion chip, Puck, had not taped out and the prototypes used Jerry chips instead. However, before a final design could be completed, Atari merged with hard drive manufacturer JTS Corporation, and the project was cancelled in the summer of 1995. Boy, 7 processors built into 3 separate chips...what were Atari thinking, apart from trying to stick a pint into a quart bottle....I know that Atari were pretty hard up (money wise) but 7 processors built into 3 chips, just goes to show you what brilliant geniuses were working for or at Atari (if they had access to that tech), i even saw on some site (not listed) that the working system was 3x the grunt of the sony psx...must of been some fooking system (bearing in mind that the Saturn was nowhere near the psx) The fact that proto's of the system (less case) were made, leads me to think that someone somewhere must have these proto's holed up somewhere, perhaps curt/wgungfu might know their whereabouts, and what about the data sheets/schematics etc are they available somewhere...it would be nice to see what sort of system this was to turn out to be...Perhaps if curt or someone knows where the datasheets/schematics or chip designs etc are perhaps we could see this system revived in some what (re: the various threads about new maria/tia/gtia chips etc) in a jaguar II on a chip or a jaguar II flashback or similar Edited November 2, 2010 by carmel_andrews Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Laird Posted November 2, 2010 Share Posted November 2, 2010 There are a few people who have them. Jay Smith has one I think and so does Curt Vendel. None of the prototypes have the "Puck" chip and instead have a "Jerry" in its place. Nobody has ever found any code for any games though One thing is for sure that from the specs the Jag 2 would have spanked the PS1 with ease. Shame Atari never lasted long enough to get it out the door 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Laird Posted November 2, 2010 Share Posted November 2, 2010 The Jaguar 2 has seven processors, which are contained in three chips. Two of the chips are proprietary designs, nicknamed "Oberon" and "Puck". The third chip is a standard Motorola 68EC020 used as a coprocessor. Oberon and Puck are built using an 0.3 micron silicon process. With proper programming, all seven processors can run in parallel. - "Oberon" - 1,250,000 transistors, 292 pins - Graphics Processing Unit (processor #1) - 64-bit RISC architecture (64/128 register processor) - 64 registers of 128 bits wide (shadow-buffering) - Has access to all 2 x 64 bits of the system bus - Can read 128 bits of data in one instruction - Rated at 127.902 MIPS (million instructions per second) - Runs at 63.951 MHz - 2 x 32K bytes of zero wait-state internal SRAM (matrix) - Performs a wide range of high-speed graphic effects - Programmable - Object processor (processor #2) - 64-bit RISC architecture - Programmable processor that can act as a variety of different video architectures, such as a sprite engine, a pixel-mapped display, a character-mapped system, and others. - Blitter (processor #3) - 64 bits read and write at the same time! (multibuffering!) - 8K read buffer (fifo) - 8K write buffer (lifo) - Performs high-speed logical operations - Hardware support for Z-buffering and Gouraud shading - Texture Mapping Engine (processor #4) - 64-bit RISC - 64 bits - Programmable risc processor - 256K "texture-work-ram" of zero wait-state internal CACHE - capable of doing about 900000 texture-mapped polyons, without textures there can do 2500000 polyons. - realtime Gouraud and Phong shading - J/MPEG "COMBI" Chip (processor #5) - 64 bits - not programmable! - 8K own data rom (with sinus) table - 128K CACHE (fifo) - realtime J/MPEG decompression via CACHE (fifo) - DRAM memory controller - 4 x 64 bits - Accesses the DRAM directly - "Puck" - 900,000 transistors, 196 pins - Digital Signal Processor (processor #6) - 32 bits (32-bit registers) - Rated at 53,3 MIPS (million instructions per second) - Runs at 53.3 MHz - Same RISC core as the Graphics Processing Unit - Not limited to sound generation - 96K bytes of zero wait-state internal SRAM - CD-quality sound (16-bit stereo 50KHz) - Number of sound channels limited by software (minimum 16!!) - Two DACs (stereo) convert digital data to analog sound signals - Full stereo capabilities - Wavetable synthesis, FM synthesis, FM Sample synthesis, and AM synthesis - A clock control block, incorporating timers, and a UART - Motorola 68EC020 (processor #7) - Runs at 26.590MHz - perfect 68000 emulation - General purpose control processor Communication is performed with a high speed 64-bit data bus, rated at 2400 megabits/second. The 68020 is only able to access 32 bits of this bus at a time. The Jaguar 2 contains eight megabytes (64 megabits) of fast page-mode DRAM, in eight chips with 1024 K each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svenski Posted November 2, 2010 Share Posted November 2, 2010 I think we need to send The_Laird on a top secret mission to do a comprehensive Jag writeup for Atari User. If anyone else wants to get involved then please do.. also if you have rare Jag stuff send pics for me to drool over. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Laird Posted November 2, 2010 Share Posted November 2, 2010 Funny I was just thinking the same . . . . This is the rarest Jag item I own Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyace Posted November 2, 2010 Share Posted November 2, 2010 There are a few people who have them. Jay Smith has one I think and so does Curt Vendel. None of the prototypes have the "Puck" chip and instead have a "Jerry" in its place. Nobody has ever found any code for any games though One thing is for sure that from the specs the Jag 2 would have spanked the PS1 with ease. Shame Atari never lasted long enough to get it out the door It would have been more competitive, but not enough to spank the PS1 ( even with difficulty ) Also , we have the technical reference manual for Midsummer - and it's nowhere near as good as the specifications you've quoted. The reality is a lot more mundane, a step up from Jaguar, fixing bugs, improving sound and adding the Risc CPU - maybe more like the 3D0 performance for texturing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted November 2, 2010 Share Posted November 2, 2010 It's nice that it may have been more powerful than the original PlayStation, but the question is, would it have been more powerful than the Nintendo 64? Would it have been more powerful than the Dreamcast (Still pretty impressive for what it is)? Basically, what I'm asking is would it have been efficient to have the Jaguar 2 released? At the time, the M2 was in development as well, and god damn was it a monster (I really wish this thing came out)!!!: (btw, I'm not asking for fanboy responses here. I'm asking for honest opinions.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmel_andrews Posted November 2, 2010 Author Share Posted November 2, 2010 (edited) I think we need to send The_Laird on a top secret mission to do a comprehensive Jag writeup for Atari User. If anyone else wants to get involved then please do.. also if you have rare Jag stuff send pics for me to drool over. You will need some pics first...of any of the proto's, boards/chips and any doc's that were available Another link http://justclaws.atari.org/altatari/dxrumour.htm And the text !NEW! Jaguar 128 (AKA Puma) !NO! The Jaguar/2 64 has only been released for a few months and yet already there is talk about a new machine under development at Atari. The Jaguar 64 took 3 years to develop in Atari's Research and Development facility, so it is quite natural that Atari should have some work in progress to create the next-generation platform. Sources close to Atari claim, however, that in this case there is more to the Jaguar 128 project than just prototype development. The system may be released late next year as an arcade technology, and only in 2-3 years time when even the Jaguar/2 64 technology is under pressure will it be released as the Atari "Puma", the Puma being the fastest animal on Earth. The Puma will be based on a 128-bit bus, with dual 64-bit Jaguar/2 style GPU/DSP/Object-Processor combinations residing on each half of the 64-bit bus running at around 120 Mhz, over 4 times the original Jaguar 64 bus speed, and 3 times the speed of the intended Jaguar 64 bus speed. The system will also allow each "system" to use either half of the bus on a dynamic basis, with a 128-bit blitter, a refinement of the 64-bit blitter in the Jaguar/2, sitting astride the entire bus. A 68000 I/O processor will allow backward compatability with the Jaguar 64 family. The Puma system is expected to feature a DVD drive and 8Mb of SDRAM when it is released as an arcade platform. The "main" CPU is yet to be decided, apparently, with Atari considering the Cyrix Media/GX chip in order to help Intel programmers migrate. This plan would also allow the Puma to offer PC compatibility if required. More information on system performance will be released as soon as possible! That link also mentions something about a lynx 64 (an updated lynx perhaps or a jaguar with lynx compatibility) Edited November 2, 2010 by carmel_andrews Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
so_tough! Posted November 2, 2010 Share Posted November 2, 2010 Doesn't really matter about power, with only a small amount of developers on board, they would never have been as dominant in the market as sony, nintendo and sega. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyace Posted November 2, 2010 Share Posted November 2, 2010 Another link http://justclaws.atari.org/altatari/dxrumour.htm And the text !NEW! Jaguar 128 (AKA Puma) !NO! The Jaguar/2 64 has only been released for a few months and yet already there is talk about a new machine under development at Atari. The Jaguar 64 took 3 years to develop in Atari's Research and Development facility, so it is quite natural that Atari should have some work in progress to create the next-generation platform. Sources close to Atari claim, however, that in this case there is more to the Jaguar 128 project than just prototype development. The system may be released late next year as an arcade technology, and only in 2-3 years time when even the Jaguar/2 64 technology is under pressure will it be released as the Atari "Puma", the Puma being the fastest animal on Earth. The Puma will be based on a 128-bit bus, with dual 64-bit Jaguar/2 style GPU/DSP/Object-Processor combinations residing on each half of the 64-bit bus running at around 120 Mhz, over 4 times the original Jaguar 64 bus speed, and 3 times the speed of the intended Jaguar 64 bus speed. The system will also allow each "system" to use either half of the bus on a dynamic basis, with a 128-bit blitter, a refinement of the 64-bit blitter in the Jaguar/2, sitting astride the entire bus. A 68000 I/O processor will allow backward compatability with the Jaguar 64 family. The Puma system is expected to feature a DVD drive and 8Mb of SDRAM when it is released as an arcade platform. The "main" CPU is yet to be decided, apparently, with Atari considering the Cyrix Media/GX chip in order to help Intel programmers migrate. This plan would also allow the Puma to offer PC compatibility if required. More information on system performance will be released as soon as possible! That link also mentions something about a lynx 64 (an updated lynx perhaps or a jaguar with lynx compatibility) Hi Carmel, I think that page is a 'spoof' - It speaks about the Jaguar 2 already being launched, and Sony withdrawing from the console business Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+orpheuswaking Posted November 2, 2010 Share Posted November 2, 2010 If anyone should write an article about the Jaguar II it should be Buddybuddies or Jay Smith... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddyBuddies Posted November 2, 2010 Share Posted November 2, 2010 If anyone should write an article about the Jaguar II it should be Buddybuddies or Jay Smith... http://www.jaguarsector.com/index.php?autocom=gallery&req=si&img=892 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 If anyone should write an article about the Jaguar II it should be Buddybuddies or Jay Smith... You sure? Going to text copy and pasters seems to be working out well so far. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax2069 Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 This just gets me thinking since people have the protos of the Jag II, could it be possible that someone has the Puck chip (like one of the developers for the Jag II or a collector not saying they have it, or lost somewhere) or the Schematics to Puck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Laird Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 This just gets me thinking since people have the protos of the Jag II, could it be possible that someone has the Puck chip (like one of the developers for the Jag II or a collector not saying they have it, or lost somewhere) or the Schematics to Puck. Somebody made FPGA versions of Oberon and Puck I believe to see what could be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmel_andrews Posted November 3, 2010 Author Share Posted November 3, 2010 Does anyone know what the physical dimensions (footprint) of the final design (in case) was, going by the pics in the later link, the board seems bigger then the original jaguar And seeming as though it was designed to run with an onboard cd drive, i am guessing that the jag II was a 3 in one system as it runs original jaguar code/games (1 system), all jag II code/games (1 system) and also the jaguar CD (built in) 1 system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
so_tough! Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 I always thought this jag duo was nothing but a jag and cd unit combined... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Laird Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 I always thought this jag duo was nothing but a jag and cd unit combined... It is. The Jaguar 2 is not the Jag Duo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GKC Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 I'm not sure how I should feel about the Jag II. I guess it depends on when Atari was planning on launching it. If they were planning on launching it to compete with the launches of the PS1, Saturn and N64 I wonder if Atari could have afforded to support both platforms. My guess, since Atari went belly up with just the Jag, is that they couldn't. But if they were planning an inbetween generation release like what they did with the Jag (say sometime around the Dreamcast launch or a year sooner) then they could have continued supporting the Jag longer. I doubt though that Atari would wait that long to launch it. It seems our Jaguar was doomed no matter what. If it was moderately successful it could have led to the Jag II and Atari still probably not being able to support it and then, of course, you have what actually happened to it, support being dropped after only a couple of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax2069 Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 This just gets me thinking since people have the protos of the Jag II, could it be possible that someone has the Puck chip (like one of the developers for the Jag II or a collector not saying they have it, or lost somewhere) or the Schematics to Puck. Somebody made FPGA versions of Oberon and Puck I believe to see what could be done. interesting to know. do you know what the outcome of it was ? or did i miss that in one of the links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Laird Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 (edited) The specs I posted earlier came from the same source. I can't really say alot more as the person concerned is not a member here anymore. Edited November 3, 2010 by The_Laird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax2069 Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 The specs I posted earlier came from the same source. I can't really say alot more as the person concerned is not a member here anymore. Oh ok, i didn't see the specs you posted. It would be sweet if he was still a member here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo_rg Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 (edited) more info here http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/consoles/jaguar/jag2.html here too http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/Atari_Jaguar_II copy/paste! Edited November 3, 2010 by neo_rg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 It would be sweet if he was still a member here. No it wouldn't, trust me. Forum has been there. Done that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax2069 Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 It would be sweet if he was still a member here. No it wouldn't, trust me. Forum has been there. Done that. I take it he wasnt someone you would want to know, or a butt hole ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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