Learned some interesting things about eBay Buyer Protection

[boxpressed]

I've had a recent run of bad luck with console auctions lately and have had to talk with eBay customer support more than I would ever want to. But I also learned something interesting about eBay Buyer Protection that wasn't apparent to me and that can help the good people here on AA.

 

I bought PS2 fat with network adapter in the box that was described as new (other). The seller claimed he only used it once to test it. Let's just say that the unit did not bear out this description. I sent a message asking if the unit had disc read errors for him. He said yes but that he could get games to load eventually. At that point, I opened a case with eBay asking for a full refund. After a week of no response from the seller to my request for a refund, eBay intervened (they give the seller a week to respond), and I got my refund. Here's where it gets interesting.

 

Then, the seller asked for his PS2 back. I called eBay Customer Service to ask for a return shipping label because I didn't think that I should incur any expense for return shipping because the item was not as described. I figured this would be no big deal because they gave me a shipping label just a week ago for another problem auction. This time, however, they said that they couldn't do so and that if the seller wanted his item back, he would have to pay for shipping.

 

I asked why.

 

They said because the closing price of the item was only $30, my refund had come from eBay, not from the seller.

 

In other words, the seller still kept his money. eBay told me that I could keep the item. I'd always thought that the refund came from the seller. I'm not sure what the threshhold is for eBay footing the bill for refunds, but I think it could be for items less than $100. I think that for items over $100, the refund isn't issued until the item is returned, and then the refund comes from the seller, not eBay.

 

Even though I sell on eBay too, I've never been on the other end of a disputed case. Can any seller verify any of this? I can see why eBay wouldn't want this policy to be widely known.

[akator]

I've only had 1 returned eBay item. eBay didn't give the buyer back his money, I did. eBay made it very clear that if I did not refund the money they would take it anyway via PayPal and administratively mark it against me in my ratings. I was going to refund the money upon return of the item anyway, but I was not going to refund the money until the item was received in the exact excellent working condition it was originally shipped.

 

eBay didn't care that the sale was as is with no returns, either.

[boxpressed]

That's interesting. Whenever an item is described as untested and as-is, I don't initiate any kind of case if the item isn't functional. In your case, was this before or after the advent of the Buyer Protection program (which seems to be only a couple of years old)? Also, was the final price less than $100?

 

I'm just trying to figure out if the seller knew that eBay footed the bill for the refund.

Edited August 8, 2011 by boxpressed

[+save2600]

I'm having a real tough time believing ePay would foot the bill for a refund of any kind. If they issue a refund at all, I bet it gets tacked back on in the sellers account as a fee or as a reversal through ScamPal. *If* ePay truly has this kind of a policy, surely they'd want to advertise it. Be a great selling point to gain the confidence of even more pigeons to use their service.

 

But yeah, if ePay has this discreet of a policy and the guy *knew* he was able to keep his money (again, doesn't seem realistic), then he's a total scumbag obviously. Guess all you can do is write and ask him why you should have to send it back if he wasn't dinged for the sale. Get the seller to verify all this...

[Itchy Koala]

I'm having a real tough time believing ePay would foot the bill for a refund of any kind. If they issue a refund at all, I bet it gets tacked back on in the sellers account as a fee or as a reversal through ScamPal. *If* ePay truly has this kind of a policy, surely they'd want to advertise it. Be a great selling point to gain the confidence of even more pigeons to use their service.

 

But yeah, if ePay has this discreet of a policy and the guy *knew* he was able to keep his money (again, doesn't seem realistic), then he's a total scumbag obviously. Guess all you can do is write and ask him why you should have to send it back if he wasn't dinged for the sale. Get the seller to verify all this...

 

Well if they advertised this protection, and it was a known feature, both the buyer and seller in the OP could have worked together and scored the buyer's money, the product, and ebay's money just by lying to ebay. Which leads me to believe it would eventually get tacked on to the sellers account (like you said).

Edited August 8, 2011 by Itchy Koala

[the.golden.ax]

eBay DOES foot the bill in some rare cases. This is a fact.

 

You are under no obligation to give the item back. It does not belong to anyone but eBay, and they said you could keep it. Get it repaired, or sell it for parts.

 

AX

[boxpressed]

Just heard back from the seller, who says that the funds were indeed deducted from his PayPal account. So I have no idea who is telling me the truth. I'm going to call eBay CS yet again to see if I can't get to the bottom of this. I need to start buying all my stuff from AA. Stay tuned.

[+save2600]

eBay DOES foot the bill in some rare cases. This is a fact.

This rare?

[the.golden.ax]

eBay DOES foot the bill in some rare cases. This is a fact.

This rare?

 

Nope, not as rare as cocks teeth.

 

When a buyer makes a good case for getting their money back, and so does the seller, ebay pays it. At least three cases I've been party to have had that result. One where I was the buyer, one where my wife was the buyer, and one where I was the seller. In most cases the seller has to appeal to the case after the final verdict, but eBay definitely foots the bill sometimes. Why do you think they keep raising the prices? Yeah, okay, mostly greed, but losses too, just like shoplifting raises the prices at the mall.

 

OP, Rest assured, you should no longer communicate with the seller. If he keeps contacting you it is considered harassment. Ask eBay for an email for physical proof when you are on the phone, then move on.

 

AX

[SpaceDice2010]

A lot is up to Ebay's discretion -

 

Buyers may not be required to return an item if the seller's geographic location is different from that shown on the listing (in violation of eBay policies), unless the seller pays for return shipping.

 

Refunds will be made with a PayPal credit. Buyers with an active PayPal account can log in to PayPal to claim the refund. Buyers without a PayPal account will be asked to create one with their eBay registered email address to claim the refund. Full details on PayPal accounts can be found in the PayPal User Agreement. In the unlikely event we are unable to send refunds to a PayPal account, we may provide refunds by voucher or coupon redeemable for purchases on eBay.

 

If the seller resolves the case by refunding the buyer after the case is opened but before the buyer contacts eBay further, eBay will credit the seller's final value fee for the sale automatically. If the buyer did not pay using PayPal, we'll confirm the refund with the buyer before returning the final value fee to the seller. The insertion fee and other fees will not be refunded. For cases in which a determination is made against the seller by eBay (a seller unresolved case), the seller will not receive a refund of his or her PayPal or eBay fees associated with the transaction.

 

There may be times when eBay—in its sole discretion—opts to reimburse the buyer without any impact on the seller.

 

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/buyer-protection.html

Edited August 9, 2011 by SpaceDice2010

[SpaceDice2010]

I also might want to add that as a seller you should think about padding your shipping times. I usually ship next day and state that in my auctions, but I usually have it so my auctions say within 4 business days.

[boxpressed]

eBay DOES foot the bill in some rare cases. This is a fact.

This rare?

 

Nope, not as rare as cocks teeth.

 

When a buyer makes a good case for getting their money back, and so does the seller, ebay pays it. At least three cases I've been party to have had that result. One where I was the buyer, one where my wife was the buyer, and one where I was the seller. In most cases the seller has to appeal to the case after the final verdict, but eBay definitely foots the bill sometimes. Why do you think they keep raising the prices? Yeah, okay, mostly greed, but losses too, just like shoplifting raises the prices at the mall.

 

OP, Rest assured, you should no longer communicate with the seller. If he keeps contacting you it is considered harassment. Ask eBay for an email for physical proof when you are on the phone, then move on.

 

AX

 

Here's an update on the situation. Read on if you're interested in how eBay handles these kind of cases.

 

So the second CS rep told me that eBay did in fact deduct the money from the seller's account. She recommended that I tell the seller to appeal and reopen the case on the off chance that eBay would issue a return shipping label. But then I get an email from PayPal saying that my refund didn't go through because the seller's eCheck bounced! Now I'm back to square one.

 

Today, I finally got a CS rep to escalate the case for me and transfer to a person with some power. He issued me a shipping label and initiated the process for eBay to refund my money. eBay will then deduct that money from the seller's account when it is in the black. I hope this is the end of it.

 

Here's what I learned that may help those of us who buy a lot of old, heavy electronics. If you are a buyer and request a full refund from the seller, at least two things can happen.

 

If the seller refunds your money without asking for the item to be returned first, eBay considers the case closed. The seller is not entitled to receive the item back (even though I would usually feel ethically bound to return it somehow). Because the case is closed, it is very difficult for you to get eBay to issue a return shipping label. Either the seller or buyer would have to pay the return shipping or work out a deal between them.

 

If the seller won't refund until the item is returned, then you can get eBay to issue a return shipping label, but only if the case is escalated to eBay CS. eBay wants the seller to pay for return shipping but will still pay for it if the case is escalated. Because having a case escalated is bad for a seller in the long run (higher fees, lower rep, etc.), eBay thinks that most sellers would rather pay the return shipping cost instead of having an escalated case on their record.

 

So, if you are a seller, it seems to me that you should always wait to refund until you get your item back -- otherwise you have no claim to your item.

Edited August 11, 2011 by boxpressed