the.golden.ax Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 I've got yet another great story to share in my ePay saga of woes. Bought a big lot of controllers (many dozen) as-is, listed as dirty and untested, sold as is, specifically because they don't have time to clean or test. Fine, I've bought lots like that before, just my cup of tea. The package gets here, and we open it up, the whole room fills will a mold smell. The controllers are covered in a grey dust, the cords, the controllers, everything. Just caked on with mold. I take one out and the cord is so brittle that it is actually stiff like a pipe cleaner, you can bend it into shapes and it stays that way. I opened one up, these suckers are flood damaged to the degree of being perhaps underwater for a long while. A) does this in your opinion go beyond the clasification of as-is, dirty, untested B) did the seller have an obligation to list them as flood damaged C) as per the postal regulations on hazards, should this lot have been mailed once, let alone sent back? http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/welcome.htm I'm a person who has lived through a flood, and dealt with mold. If this was part of that mess, it would be trashed... yeah that bad. To me this is exactly what the clerk at the PO means, when they ask if you have anything liquid, hazardous, perishable.... AX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Link to the auction please? If they were obviously flood damaged of this nature, the seller was certainly being disingenuous by not disclosing this fact. "Dirty and untested" does not mean "sat underwater in a flood". ..Al 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Dart Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 You got scammed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.golden.ax Posted October 28, 2011 Author Share Posted October 28, 2011 Link to the auction please? If they were obviously flood damaged of this nature, the seller was certainly being disingenuous by not disclosing this fact. "Dirty and untested" does not mean "sat underwater in a flood". ..Al eBay Auction -- Item Number: 220879223769 I'm going to go out to the porch where they were moved and get some pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Locomotive Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Is there anyway to get either ebay or paypal to help you get your money back? Because crap like this is ridiculous, especially with the price you paid something as major as flood damage should have been mentioned. At the very least leave them negative feedback so others can see that this slimeball knowingly sold you damaged controllers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.golden.ax Posted October 29, 2011 Author Share Posted October 29, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.golden.ax Posted October 29, 2011 Author Share Posted October 29, 2011 The screws are rusted and not removable in the majority of controllers. Communication took place in advance, due to the seller not having a BIN, and suggesting in their listing that buyers PM her for an offer to add one. In that communication I was clear what I do with these (modify for use on other platforms). The seller had an opportunity at that time to tell me there was no way these would be able to get opened, and were likely rusted and ruined inside. The overall worst part is the health risk in my opinion. My wife hasn't stopped sneezing since the box got opened. AX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VertigoProcess Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Wow you out bid me on this lot... thank you ... sorry though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 I would definitely attempt any recourse that you can--what about eBay's Buyer Protection Program? ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VertigoProcess Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Oh wait never mind it was that buy it now lot that was over priced... I passed it up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.golden.ax Posted October 29, 2011 Author Share Posted October 29, 2011 I would definitely attempt any recourse that you can--what about eBay's Buyer Protection Program? ..Al I've written the seller and I am awaiting their reply (though I know what to expect since they were less than honest already). Once they deny satisfaction I will file a claim. I'm not sure how eBay will handle it. They tend to be happy to give you a prepaid label for returns of a larger size, however I'm not thinking I'd either put this in my car, or that if the post office knew, it would be allowed back through the mail system. Once about 2 years ago when I bought a dreamcast on ePay and all the games were cdr in the original cases (how or why they had real cases but fake games!? I'll never know) they told me to trash them. We shall see. AX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Locomotive Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 (edited) Once about 2 years ago when I bought a dreamcast on ePay and all the games were cdr in the original cases (how or why they had real cases but fake games!? I'll never know My guess simply a really fucking dishonest seller. They likely just put all the games in a CD holder and made pirate copies to put in the cases. I hope ebay is able to help you out because its awful they did this to you. If your worried about putting the box in your car or mailing it what about spraying them down with some bleach to kill any and all mold before hand? Edited October 29, 2011 by A_Locomotive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everhart Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 A few years back I purchased a set of wheels and tires that were "like new, taken off a car with only 5000 miles". They showed up with extensive scratches on the wheels and the tires were bald with cords sticking out of the tires. When questioning the seller, his reply was "like new is open to perception". I documented the conversations took photos and submitted a claim to eBay and PayPal. It took a few weeks and some additional correspondance, but PayPal reimbursed me for the item and the shiping. eBay also booted the seller (it was his 2nd problem). If you are willing to take some time, there are avenues to recoup your investment. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.golden.ax Posted October 29, 2011 Author Share Posted October 29, 2011 Yeah, to the suggestion of bleach, I'm not doing salvage work, or remediation to get what was mine in the first place. At this point I'll going to simply file a claim if/when they don't refund me. If eBay wants to send them through the mail with their label, they will have to pay the $10 UPS pick-up fee as well (I'm in a rural location). This can and will be unscrewed, but I'm not going to waste any more time or effort on it than needed. There are enough large lots of NES controllers out there. I want to just start over. My customers don't want garbage. AX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Locomotive Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Yeah, to the suggestion of bleach, I'm not doing salvage work, or remediation to get what was mine in the first place. At this point I'll going to simply file a claim if/when they don't refund me. If eBay wants to send them through the mail with their label, they will have to pay the $10 UPS pick-up fee as well (I'm in a rural location). This can and will be unscrewed, but I'm not going to waste any more time or effort on it than needed. There are enough large lots of NES controllers out there. I want to just start over. My customers don't want garbage. AX I didn't mean to suggest saving the controllers with the bleach thing I meant saving yourself from having to breath that shit in with them around until this gets sorted. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydro Thunder Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 That's just disgusting, physically and morally. Let's just hope that our general discontent with how Ebay seems to protect buyers and make life nearly impossible for sellers applies in this case! Keep us up to date, Ax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.golden.ax Posted October 30, 2011 Author Share Posted October 30, 2011 They replied with some spiel about how the controllers were in their home for a week and didn't do any harm their kids and pregnant wife. They did not offer a solution. Case has been registered with eBay. I also spoke with eBay on the phone. Ball is in seller court. AX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari2atari Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 Ugh - - mold. Worst substance in the world, perhaps only beat by cat pee. Yeah, I see that as a clear case of a seller attempting to recoup some value from flood-destroyed controllers. I hope for your sake that this is as clear-cut as **I** would interpret it - - similar to failing to declare a car engine as flood-damaged before attempting selling it. Good luck, AX! People can suck sometimes, sorry you got the brunt of it here! -a2a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+frankodragon Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 That is pretty disgusting. There was no description of the items being covered in mold/mildew. Hopefully you can get some of your money back. These clowns say "no refunds" so that's probably going to be their defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.golden.ax Posted October 30, 2011 Author Share Posted October 30, 2011 Seller has responded to the case and it is now in eBays court to decide what to do within 72 hours. For the sake of documentation I'm posting all communications after the delivery of the items. 1) FIRST EMAIL TO SELLER 10/28 afternoon estatesales88, These items were proported to be untested and dirty, but you never mentioned that they were flood damaged and moldy. Upon opening the package the room was filled with the odor of mold. Two of my family members became very ill due to this. The items were covered in mold (not just an odor but literally covered with dusty looking mold... not dust, but actual active mold. The controllers were in water long enough to make the cords stiff. Forget for a moment that you failed to list anything about the fact that this stuff is flood damaged, mold is listed as a hazardous material, and per postal regulations you can't mail mold for that reason. http://pe.usps.com/a...ve0810/C023.htm Sections 7 and 8 seem to cover this situation. I'm not at all pleased. How do we proceed here? AX 2) After 24 hours and no reply I called eBay, decided to wait for the seller to respond at least once before making the claim (so I wrote the seller again) estatesales88, If you didn't read the other email yet, read it first. I've called eBay and they were willing to open a case, but I'm going to give you a little extra time since I'm not sure if you work weekends. I need to hear back by Monday sometime. These are on my porch right now. Simply put you can't ship mold. The post office doesn't allow it, and it shouldn't have been sent through the mail in the first place. I need you to either refund this so I can throw it away, or offer me $150 of other items that are not moldy. If you or eBay can come up with a way to legally ship this back more power to you. I won't take it in my car so it has to be a pick up. The shipper will have to see and know what is inside and be cool with it, if they refuse that isn't my problem. I'm surprised a top rated seller would even bother with flood damaged items. Let's make this right. I don't want you to have an issue with your good standing... I'm making every effort even though I was initially pissed and grossed out. AX 3) The sellers first reply 10/29 afternoon the.golden.ax, This has to be one the most absurd things I have ever heard. I sold you an item below market value in AS IS for parts with no returns and you are tying to say that I made your family sick? Unreal... My two chinldren and pregneant wife helped me pack the box and this stuff was in my house for almost a week before it was listed. 4) My reply at 2pm today 10/29 estatesales88, http://thegoldenax.info/mold5.jpg http://thegoldenax.info/mold4.jpg http://thegoldenax.info/mold3.jpg http://thegoldenax.info/mold2.jpg http://thegoldenax.info/mold1.jpg I can't speak for how you live. I lost my house in the Nashville flood in early May 2010. As a result I am more than well versed in flood damage, molds, and what they can do to the human body. This stuff is rusted shut, molded over, and was sitting in water at some point in time. Those are facts based on conclusive evidence, not opinion or a matter of your families tolerance to their living conditions. What do you plan to do about it, or should I let eBay decide? 5) When I got back from Radio Shack and the Store at about 7pm no reply still so I filed the eBay claim Details you provided: The item doesn't match the seller's description. You have already contacted the seller through eBay Messages You paid on Oct 22, 2011 The seller has responded to you The seller isn't working with you to solve the problem You entered the phone number 931***-**** We will not share your phone number with the seller. The item is damaged Additional information: "Lot was clearly water damaged, moldy, rusted. This is a health risk and by law should never have been sent through the mail. Rather than solve the problem the seller entered in to a debate about how it didn't affect he and his family. Something that has no bearing or any justification in the facts of this matter. Those facts being: The items were NOT described as moldy and flood damaged. http://thegoldenax.info/mold5.jpg Mold is a serious health risk. http://www.epa.gov/i...dresources.html You can not mail mold, as it is a hazardous material, unless it is a clearly labeled and a properly packaged test sample, or as otherwise allowed by licensed individuals. http://pe.usps.com/t...b52/welcome.htm I tried to communicate with the seller, but obviously they don't feel that it is their responsibility, to clearly describe their items or work within the postal restrictions placed on hazardous materials. This box should be in the trash even now. eBay needs to decide the best coarse of action. " 6) The seller responded to the case within 17 MINUTES! Seller's message: "This buyer bought my item as a parts lot that was not cleane/tested and sold as is with no returns. This has never been flooded or covered in mold as the buyer claims. There may be rusty screws or similiar problems but these are nearly 30 years old and I did not claim that they were in any better condition. I beleive that the buyer may have found a better deal or had second thoughts and came up with this nonsense story in an attempt to bypass my "sold as is no return" auction. I am not sure how the seller can claim that these have been flood damaged etc. Buyer claims his family became sick when he opened the box which again is fabricated. This box sat in my house for a week prior to listing and then my small children and wife helped me pack without noticing any smells/moisture etc. I feel that the buyer is trying to work the system and adding in all this other stuff. " 7) The case was escalated by the seller to let eBay render a verdict in this case. ------ Nothing like throwing fire on the flame, my wife is now pissed at him too. That's it for now. AX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
20ohm20 Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 I've always found it mildly amusing how an eBay seller won't respond to you for several days (or more) at a time, then when you file a claim against them, they'll respond within minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Cade Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 (edited) I've looked at the pictures and they don't look that bad for sets of 25 year old controllers. I think you might be over-reacting a bit. They provided photos- were the photos not of the controllers you got? They are certainly dirty- like sitting in a box at the flea market in Georgia for 20 years dirty, but they don't look like underwater to me from the photos- they would be really filthy. What makes you say that? The wires keeping their shape happens when they are coiled around for years. That will even cause discoloration on the plastic of some items that looks like cigarette burns, but isn't. Not trying to argue - I'm sensitive to the problem. I've gotten crap from eBay and been pissed about it before, but that is the problem with as-is auctions. Usually I get a box with no attempt at proper packing material and a broken computer/console. Edited October 30, 2011 by R.Cade 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.golden.ax Posted October 30, 2011 Author Share Posted October 30, 2011 There is no doubt that they were in piled in a box that was in water at some point. As a result they have varying degrees of water damage. You have evidence of some backs and some fronts being water damaged. Rusted screws, the ones I did get inside of were rusty and crusty inside. The smell is the first clue. DIRT wouldn't be an issue, neither would age. Note: dirt... it isn't white. This mold is growing on anything porous where it can hang on. Used games are what I deal in, FULL TIME, and have done so for over a decade. I know the difference between poorly kept, just dirty, climate getting at things in storage, etc... and water damage. I spent the better part of last summer clearing out my former home that had a minor bit of river water in it and no power for 5 days following the event. When we got in to the house it looked fine at first, in the dark. After a week it looked like the surface of the moon. That smell is as familiar to me as barn dust and cat piss. It is unmistakable. For parts and repair, doesn't mean water damaged to the point where you can't use the parts. The seller clearly buys at estate sales and storage lockers. Any responsible seller would have at least said they were moldy, even if they didn't know the origin, or facts behind how they got that way. AX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojay1997 Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 I've looked at the pictures and they don't look that bad for sets of 25 year old controllers. I think you might be over-reacting a bit. They provided photos- were the photos not of the controllers you got? They are certainly dirty- like sitting in a box at the flea market in Georgia for 20 years dirty, but they don't look like underwater to me from the photos- they would be really filthy. What makes you say that? The wires keeping their shape happens when they are coiled around for years. That will even cause discoloration on the plastic of some items that looks like cigarette burns, but isn't. Not trying to argue - I'm sensitive to the problem. I've gotten crap from eBay and been pissed about it before, but that is the problem with as-is auctions. Usually I get a box with no attempt at proper packing material and a broken computer/console. You're kidding, right? I have actually seen controllers in that condition, but it was from a seller that stored them outdoors for months during the winter at an outdoor swap meet. You can't really believe that items in the shape pictured are "not too bad", can you? As-is does not give the seller leave to literally ship dangerous garbage in a box and charge for it. Mold is a very serious problem and that white/gray stuff on the cords is clearly mold. It can make people very sick. I had a middle-aged neighbor growing up who developed chronic lung disease as a result of mold exposure at home and after years of suffering with deteriorating lungs, he ended up dying of respiratory arrest in his late 40s. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Cade Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 I guess the photos just don't do them justice. The cords look dirty, but the controllers still appeared to be the "right color". I wasn't arguing for the seller, I've just seen worse. Sorry, and good luck. It doesn't seem to matter which side I am on in a bad eBay deal. Whether I am the seller and someone screws me, or I am the buyer and get screwed. Either way I always get screwed. Ebay or Paypal never do the right thing in my cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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