kevincal Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 damnit I am getting tired of this... Happening more lately, in particular with disc games. Buyers try to claim a disc they got from you is scratched and doesnt work, but they say they want to keep the game, only they want you to "refund them SOME money" hoping to get as much money back from you as they can. Always they say something like "I dont want to have to leave you negative feedback" So basically they threaten you with a neg if you dont give em money back. Pisses me off. This time its Tempest 3000 for the NUON. Some some guy on ebay bought it after much haggling me down in price and it was hardly used and worked perfectly. I gave him a great deal, $69 total shipping included, you cant find it for that cheap anywhere online, everyone else wants $90-200+ for this game... Ugh The other thing, its always the SAME type of person that pulls this shit. They lowball more than once for the same item, and finally I buckle to a low price for them, and they proceed to pull this crap after they get the game to get even more money out of you. ebay needs to go back to the system where the seller can leave a negative or neutral feedback to a buyer. Its crap the way they have it set up now in the buyers favor. totally unfair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edintv Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I may have seen the option on Ebay to report a member with the title "Feedback extortion", if others sellers have done that the buyer will get in trouble for sure. I get some buyer like that in gamegavel, Menacing with negative feedback, claiming to damage in boxes, as sonn as I ask for pictures, I never heard of him again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetset Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 ebay needs to go back to the system where the seller can leave a negative or neutral feedback to a buyer. Its crap the way they have it set up now in the buyers favor. totally unfair. No there needs to be a better system, but the old one was just as bad only for buyers. It was totally unfair to buyers before because sellers wouldn't give feedback when payment was received. They'd hold it as a retaliatory bargaining chip and that gave sellers free reign to play games with inflated shipping, poor communication, and items sent not as described. Maybe if feedback were hidden until both parties left feedback or something, but the old system was just as broken as the current one. Problem is, with no buyers there's no need for sellers and hence ebay loses out. So they decided to side with the buyers to keep them from leaving. Sucks, but there it is. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Dart Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Sounds like a clever scam; I dunno that I'd call them idiots. eBay certainly makes it easy for them though, I agree. Their feedback system is nearly as wacko as it was was back in the 90's, when you could leave feedback ("A+ Coke Dealer!") without having been involved in any auctions at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobotech Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 If its not one way, its another. If its back to the old way, then a few sellers will do the same kinds of extortion. Just saying that when it was the old way, buyers used to bitch and moan like crazy that sellers were jerks and unethical and stuff like that. There really isn't a fool proof method for making feedback truly honest and reasonable for the idiots out there. Either you will have buyers like yours who try to pull crap and hold feedback hostage or we revert to the old ways and buyers who receive items that weren't as stated in the auctions will have their feedback held hostage by the sellers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Dart Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 What was wrong with allowing both buyers and sellers to leave and respond to feedback? Am I so dense that I can't see how it went wrong & wound up as it is now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disjaukifa Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Yeah I never understood that one either. I avoid selling on eBay now at all cost . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevincal Posted November 1, 2011 Author Share Posted November 1, 2011 somewhere along the line ebay decided / found out it was more profitable for them to have sellers grovel at the feet of buyers regardless of the circumstances. I realize it goes both ways and like was said, pretty much impossible to police 100% correctly as to wether the buyer or seller is FOS.. Thankfully there arent too many scummy people like this and it only happens once in awhile. I just hate it though, it stresses me out. Its usually on a higher dollar item when it happens too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greencoman Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 That stinks Kev sorry to hear. I did that unknowingly of the consiquences. I got a game and it did not work the seller had 100% feedback. She gave me such a hard time about it too. I send her an email saying I would hate to give you a neg on the account of this. I did not know that you could not do that. She just rambled that I was not allowed to do it and such. I was just so fed up with her that I just got my refund and never left feedback. I just did not want to see her name. It stinks that of course there are dishonest buyers as well. And Tempest 3000 I would love to have that game for the nuon. I hear it is the only playable one out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLeaf Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I'd just insist that the game be returned and once returned, refund the money. Of course the worry is the idiot buyer will damage the disc to (1) make it seem like he's not a liar and (2) for retaliation that his scam didn't succeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GonzoGamer Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 (edited) Ebay like any other auction site really relies on both parties being honest, i have been a buyer and seller on ebay since 1997, was even a full time seller years ago before ebay went to crap, mainly just a buyer these days, as a person who buys and collects both cartridge and disc games i can tell you that many sellers on ebay do not have a clue what 2 little words mean, those words are "like new" this is especially true with optical disc (PS1-3 - dreamcast etc.) i received a PS2 game the other day described as like new that came with a soiled case (God knows what was on it) no manual and a disc that look like someone had taken a sheet of sandpaper to it, needless to say i got a full refund (after he wanted me to return at my own expense, ebay sided with me and very quickly saying that i should not have to pay for shipping to return this thing, i kept the manual and trashed the rest. as a seller i have had fewer problems, but they are out there. but 95% of the time as a buyer and seller all goes well, if both parties are honest all should go well (well we would like to think so anyway) one big problem for sellers is that we have no way of telling the world that a buyer is bad, as ebay decided a few years ago to take away the negative feedback that sellers could leave buyers....brilliant!! Edited November 1, 2011 by GonzoGamer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianoid Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 somewhere along the line ebay decided / found out it was more profitable for them to have sellers grovel at the feet of buyers regardless of the circumstances. eBay wants to be less of a niche product to grow and improve the outlook for shareholders. And attracting more buyers is critical. The idea for the public to be rated when they buy something was probably focus grouped out of the system. No there needs to be a better system, but the old one was just as bad only for buyers. It was totally unfair to buyers before because sellers wouldn't give feedback when payment was received. Disagree. If eBay wanted sellers to leave feedback immediately after payment, they would make it automatic. I leave feedback once a month. I like to wait to see my feedback or at least give buyers a few weeks to complain. If I think someone is a scammer after all is said and done, I'll post it in their mandatorily positive feedback nicely. That way other sellers can see a red flag when they get the same treatment. Sorry buyers, feedback is not your god given right. And please just don't buy from me if you are that arrogant. I'd just insist that the game be returned and once returned, refund the money. Of course the worry is the idiot buyer will damage the disc to (1) make it seem like he's not a liar and (2) for retaliation that his scam didn't succeed. The good part about that approach is that you make them go through the trouble of returning it. Sometimes they go away as they are halfhearted scammers. If you receive it in poor condition it would be unusual, but then you have a dispute, which nevertheless may not end in your favor and you may have to just eat. Still, making them ship is putative for most buyers. That's why they are buyers not sellers! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetset Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 No there needs to be a better system, but the old one was just as bad only for buyers. It was totally unfair to buyers before because sellers wouldn't give feedback when payment was received. Disagree. If eBay wanted sellers to leave feedback immediately after payment, they would make it automatic. I leave feedback once a month. I like to wait to see my feedback or at least give buyers a few weeks to complain. If I think someone is a scammer after all is said and done, I'll post it in their mandatorily positive feedback nicely. That way other sellers can see a red flag when they get the same treatment. Sorry buyers, feedback is not your god given right. And please just don't buy from me if you are that arrogant. It's not a matter of a god given right or arrogance, it's a matter of common courtesy. If you're going to treat every customer as a potential scam artist, you're doing it wrong. If small business owners acted like many ebay sellers, they'd go out of business in a split second. You thank your customers for doing business with them when the sale is made, not after the 30-day return policy period is over. Ebay figured out that kind of rudeness sends customers away and did what they had to so as to fix that problem. And that's that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianoid Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zwackery Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 i received a PS2 game the other day described as like new that came with a soiled case (God knows what was on it) no manual and a disc that look like someone had taken a sheet of sandpaper to it, needless to say i got a full refund (after he wanted me to return at my own expense, ebay sided with me and very quickly saying that i should not have to pay for shipping to return this thing, i kept the manual and trashed the rest. So, did it have a manual or not? And you were issued a refund despite not returning the then unwanted property to the seller? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GonzoGamer Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 (edited) q Edited November 2, 2011 by GonzoGamer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GonzoGamer Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 (edited) i received a PS2 game the other day described as like new that came with a soiled case (God knows what was on it) no manual and a disc that look like someone had taken a sheet of sandpaper to it, needless to say i got a full refund (after he wanted me to return at my own expense, ebay sided with me and very quickly saying that i should not have to pay for shipping to return this thing, i kept the manual and trashed the rest. So, did it have a manual or not? And you were issued a refund despite not returning the then unwanted property to the seller? I meant the art work from the case, no manual, guess i did not make it clear how NON like new this item was, and he refused to refund unless i paid to send the $7 item back, why would i pay for his mistake, and by the way the guy had many negatives for pretty much the same thing, i should not have purchased it in the first place with the feedback he had, but i took a chance. Edited November 2, 2011 by GonzoGamer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armonigann Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Can you link us to the auction/seller so we can't make the same mistake? I would be pissed to receive a disc game (or any game) described as yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevincal Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) another feedback extorting asshole strikes again. check this peice of work out. people like this guy are the exact reasons we dont have peace on earth. start reading at the bottom and go to the top Re: Other: ed-2o9 sent a message about Who Framed Roger Rabbit? Nintendo NES Complete LJN CIB #310370924534 To: ed-2o9 From: kevincal20 Sent: Jan-18-12 08:38 PM eBay sent this message to Kevin Christensen (kevincal20). Your registered name is included to show this message originated from eBay. Learn more. Seller has responded to your question about this item Do not respond to the sender if this message requests that you complete the transaction outside of eBay. This type of offer is against eBay policy, may be fraudulent, and is not covered by buyer protection programs. Learn More. Dear ed-2o9, how am I a jerk!? You got exactly what I advertised, you got it for way less than asking price, and you got it shipped to you very quickly. You asked for a refund and I gave you a refund, yet still you continue to treat me like shit. You would have an argument if I used STOCK pictures but I DIDNT I used very big very clear pictures that show the sticker and show the damage to the manual. Why wont you admit to this? Dont answer that, I would really appreciate if we could stop communication now because it is just a further waste of my time and again i dont need the stress, you got a complete NES game for a fair deal and a free manual please just be happy with that, you did not get ripped off you got the exact items that were pictured and you didnt spend very much money for a hard to find complete NES game... - kevincal20 From: ed-2o9 To: kevincal20 Subject: Re: Other: ed-2o9 sent a message about Who Framed Roger Rabbit? Nintendo NES Complete LJN CIB #310370924534 Sent Date: Jan-18-12 20:29:42 PST Dear kevincal20, Did you seriously say "do I get a thanks" - for being a jerk? absolutely no way. And I just noticed the game sticker has HUGE damage as well. Yeah, thanks for ripping me off - ed-2o9 From: kevincal20 To: ed-2o9 Subject: Re: Other: ed-2o9 sent a message about Who Framed Roger Rabbit? Nintendo NES Complete LJN CIB #310370924534 Sent Date: Jan-18-12 20:21:26 PST Dear ed-2o9, you got the refund you asked for hours ago. ok. thank you. in my auctions i tell people to look at the pictures to see the condition because this is even better than explaining the item in words. That is why I take excellent up close pictures and I always say you get the exact items pictured in the auction. Again, go check the auction again and make the pictures large and you will see the sticker, you will see the damage to the manual. you knew exactly what you were buying stop trying to act like you didnt know these things. its not my fault if you didnt look at the pictures, but im sure you did. whatever man, we are done here. enjoy your free manual on me. even though the manual you got from me wasnt perfect, its not worthless, but since i refunded you enough to buy another one that means i gave you that manual free. and do i get a thanks? No, I get you continuing to make claims against me that arent true, such as the refund, which i sent to you hours ago and this is a fact. - kevincal20 From: ed-2o9 To: kevincal20 Subject: Re: Other: ed-2o9 sent a message about Who Framed Roger Rabbit? Nintendo NES Complete LJN CIB #310370924534 Sent Date: Jan-18-12 19:56:48 PST Dear kevincal20, It isn't harassment. I'm trying to get the item I thought I was buying. If you had listed all this damage (including the damage to the game sticker) in your auction like Ebay rules state, this would not be happening. - ed-2o9 From: kevincal20 To: ed-2o9 Subject: Re: Other: ed-2o9 sent a message about Who Framed Roger Rabbit? Nintendo NES Complete LJN CIB #310370924534 Sent Date: Jan-18-12 19:48:59 PST Dear ed-2o9, WELL< here again ive done nothing wrong and here again you go on and on, i sent the refund dude. ive done everything right in this transaction im sick and tired of you harrassing me. im a good person who has done nothing wrong here. go take another look at the auction and the enlarged photo and try to tell me you didnt know EXACTLY what you were getting you could plainly see the tear in front cover of manual............ Enough already! again, check your emails and paypal I. Sent. The. Refund. hours agoooooooooo please go buy another manual and move on with your life. i dont like stressing over such trivial things especially when ive done nothing WRONGG!! =/ - kevincal20 From: ed-2o9 To: kevincal20 Subject: Re: Other: ed-2o9 sent a message about Who Framed Roger Rabbit? Nintendo NES Complete LJN CIB #310370924534 Sent Date: Jan-18-12 19:35:47 PST Dear kevincal20, Well, I told you if I didn't receive any sort of refund by tonight I would file the claim. I tried to work with you here, you fought me every step of the way, even wrote some insulting nonsense to me. - ed-2o9 From: kevincal20 To: ed-2o9 Subject: Re: Other: ed-2o9 sent a message about Who Framed Roger Rabbit? Nintendo NES Complete LJN CIB #310370924534 Sent Date: Jan-18-12 12:59:02 PST Dear ed-2o9, look this is a complete waste of time, ive alredy spent too much time messaging you, i dont want to waste more time contacting ebay (but I will if I have to) Let me give you $3 back its more than fair, remind me of your paypal id/email and I will send the $3. I still think you are being very unfair to me but whatever. I will give you 3 back but you do not leave me negative feedback you know and I know I do not deserve it...... Let me know... - kevincal20 From: ed-2o9 To: kevincal20 Subject: Re: Other: ed-2o9 sent a message about Who Framed Roger Rabbit? Nintendo NES Complete LJN CIB #310370924534 Sent Date: Jan-18-12 11:36:35 PST Dear kevincal20, Also missing it's foam insert. - ed-2o9 From: kevincal20 To: ed-2o9 Subject: Re: Other: ed-2o9 sent a message about Who Framed Roger Rabbit? Nintendo NES Complete LJN CIB #310370924534 Sent Date: Jan-18-12 10:45:07 PST Dear ed-2o9, Feedback extortion eh? I've dealt with this before... It's not cool but whatever. First of all, you got this for 40% off my original asking price. Second of all, I take great pictures of all items I sell, its plain to see there is a sticker on the cart and the manual isnt perfect in the pictures. Third of all I think it's ridiculous to require the styro block to call an NES game complete. I mean really? If thats the case then if a game doesnt have original plastic or register cards then its not complete... To 99% of the general population of game collectors, complete means game, box, manual. period. If I refund you $5 that means you got the game shipped to you for $9.50 Now how the hell is that fair to me? It isnt, at all. Shipping costs were like $2.50, ebay and paypal fees something like $3.50 So that leaves me with a measly $3.50 profit from a complete semi rare NES GAME!?!?! that I made sure to send to you in a sturdy box, sent it quickly, drove to the PO to send it etc etc. Are you kidding me man? Jeez, thanks a lot. Maybe a $2 refund is the most I would be willing to give you, ya, cus any more than that and its just a slap in my face. Let me know what you think... and let me know your paypal and I will send the $2. I do not deserve any kind of neutral or negative feedback for this ive done nothing wrong. You should not threaten me with bad feedback unless I give you money it is very much against ebay policy (its called "feedback extortion" and is talked about on ebay by ebay) and if you leave any bad feedback or low dsr ratings for this I will report you for it. Good sellers like me dont deserve this type of treatment. - kevincal20 From: ed-2o9 To: kevincal20 Subject: Other: ed-2o9 sent a message about Who Framed Roger Rabbit? Nintendo NES Complete LJN CIB #310370924534 Sent Date: Jan-18-12 06:01:47 PST Dear kevincal20, Just got Roger Rabbit and there is damage to the instruction booklet you didn't note in your auction description. It is also missing it's foam insert (not complete) - now I have to buy a new instruction booklet so I'm asking for a partial refund of $5. If you accept, I will still leave you positive feedback. If not, I will probably leave a neg with low dsr ratings. Please advise - ed-2o9 Who Framed Roger Rabbit? Nintendo NES Complete LJN CIB Item Id: 310370924534 End time: Jan-09-12 12:55:28 PST Seller: kevincal20 (2121) 99.8% Positive Feedback Edited January 19, 2012 by kevincal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grig Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Dude, I totally feel for you. What a tool . I've been through this a few times myself as a seller. I ALWAYS refund when someone has a legitimate argument (meaning I made a mistake in the description or the shipping), and sometimes I STILL refund to ass-clowns like thos guy. I only sell on ebay now when I need extra funds for a bill or something like that. It's too stressful because there are more than a few choob's like this idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevincal Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 and after all this the guy still had the nerve to leave me a negative feedback, which i promptly got removed by ebay customer service. the ebay lady right away told me its a cut and dry case of feedback extortion when she saw his first message. unfortunately shes says they cant do anything about DSR ratings and he probably gave me the lowest Oh well, I wish I could confront this guy in person and chew his ass out and put him in his place. Idiots like this guy really fire me up. just relieved I got his negative feedback removed and hopefully done with this pathetic guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevincal Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) Dude, I totally feel for you. What a tool . I've been through this a few times myself as a seller. I ALWAYS refund when someone has a legitimate argument (meaning I made a mistake in the description or the shipping), and sometimes I STILL refund to ass-clowns like thos guy. I only sell on ebay now when I need extra funds for a bill or something like that. It's too stressful because there are more than a few choob's like this idiot. thanks man ya its so frustrating Im glad you understand im fully expecting certain people to take the guys side against me lol. Edited January 19, 2012 by kevincal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grig Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Dude, I totally feel for you. What a tool . I've been through this a few times myself as a seller. I ALWAYS refund when someone has a legitimate argument (meaning I made a mistake in the description or the shipping), and sometimes I STILL refund to ass-clowns like thos guy. I only sell on ebay now when I need extra funds for a bill or something like that. It's too stressful because there are more than a few choob's like this idiot. thanks man ya its so frustrating Im glad you understand im fully expecting certain people to take the guys side against me lol. I don't see how anyone with any sense could take his side. His first message says it all. He needs some serious reform school or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldjd Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Just recently had 2 similar deals like this. First one,sends an email claiming stuff is missing,and the console doesnt work .I told him,ok send it all back,when I have verified that the console is the same one I sent,we can talk refund. Well,now he responds and says ,oh the power pack is broken,and one joystick doednt work,and how am I going to verify the console? I always mark these before I sell them ,just for occasions like this. So,I told him,pack it up and send it back,refund issued when I verify all is there. Next thing I get an Ebay email,there putting the transaction on hold/freezing it thry paypal. Because this a-hole made the same claims to the bay,and they have told him to send it back to me,and once I have it(confirmed delivery) they will give him his money back WTF!!!!! Second one,almost the same deal,except this one was out of the country,bought a very nice system,and I just knew it was gonna happen.Sure as hell,email from him,oh poor me,1 of the boxed games has a tear in it and is missing instructions,but if I give him money back,he wont neg. me Told him to pound sand,and of course he negged me This is really becoming epidemic,and I am so tired of these whiners,and a-holes who know full well,when they buy this stuff that they can throw the feedback crap at you I guess its just the nature of the beast,but as other posters have said,its becoming a case of the seller basically getting his ass handed to him by either ebay or the buyer.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guy767 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) You're making things too personal and unprofessional; you should have stated something like "Sorry that you are not satisfied with your purchase. Please send the item back for a full refund including return shipping costs. Thank you." Always remain calm and civil otherwise you are giving the extortionist the upper hand. This is an obvious case of extortion so you really didn't need to say anything else as you had the evidence to prove your case via the buyer's first message to you. Also, you might as well offer a decent return policy as EBay’s Buyer Protection is going to force you to do returns anyways. If you want to sell items truly as is with no returns then list the item as "For Parts/Not Working". I'm afraid that's the only way to sell items and not accept returns unfortunately unless someone else wants to correct me. Edited January 19, 2012 by guy767 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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