Rybags Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Probably, but I've had it off since installing VBXE - bottom half can stay though. You don't necessarily need the 2nd drill hole, I just have it held in by the one screw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) Probably, but I've had it off since installing VBXE - bottom half can stay though. You don't necessarily need the 2nd drill hole, I just have it held in by the one screw. it definitely doesn't fit anymore.....I've got my U1MB standing on one leg too.... hate drilling a perfectly fine mobo.. :-) One thing I'll do is to try installing it bottom-up, so that the battery faces up for easy replacement without disassembly. Edited July 10, 2012 by atari8warez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roydea6 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 it definitely doesn't fit anymore.....I've got my U1MB standing on one leg too.... hate drilling a perfectly fine mobo.. :-) One thing I'll do is to try installing it bottom-up, so that the battery faces up for easy replacement without disassembly. Nice in eleven years you can change the battery. But the next need to reflash the bios or chip you will have to turn it over for access. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) it definitely doesn't fit anymore.....I've got my U1MB standing on one leg too.... hate drilling a perfectly fine mobo.. :-) One thing I'll do is to try installing it bottom-up, so that the battery faces up for easy replacement without disassembly. Nice in eleven years you can change the battery. But the next need to reflash the bios or chip you will have to turn it over for access. I thought one didn't need physical access to flash U1MB, or am I wrong!!....If I attach a ribbon cable to the JTAG header (just in case) before flipping it over I would never need to disassemble it...... In any case I would say you are very optimistic about those chinese batteries . Edited July 11, 2012 by atari8warez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 My understanding is you can flash the OS but to change the logic of the memory controller for stuff like extra 2K or Side/PBI you'd need programming hardware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Replacing battery is not something that needs to be done a lot. You can flash all flashable parts: OS, Cartridges/Basic, SDX, settings, time/date. All this can be changed/flashed with the atari self, without the need of extra cables or physical access to the ultimate 1MB board. When there are some 'hardware' firmware upgrades you will have to connect special programming cable... but the way Ultimate 1MB is send to you, this is not needed (yet). In my 800XL there was no need for drilling. It stands on one leg. It's a fabulous upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) So my solution of installing it bottoms-up will remove the need to ever dissasemble it from the board and as I said earlier if I also attach a JTAG cable, just in case, I am all covered. Since my 800XL isn't made off of a clear plastic i will not be seeing the board upside down, although for some purists even the thought of having the board mounted that way may send chills to their spine ... Glad I am not one of them..... Now let's get to the juicy stuff..... I finally started to play around with U1MB and found that sometimes the 800XL will freeze in the middle of the boot. That usually happens after I change the config, press "S" and then "Q" to quit and re-boot. It does not happen often but when it does happen going back to setup and restarting from the setup screen (without changing anything) will fix it. Strange!!. I am wondering if this is related to RAM (I remember some old memory upgrades needed that the computer turned off for at least a few seconds before it's re-started to clear the contents of the RAM) One other thing, I experience some screen corruption and some random characters appearing on the Setup screen when a cartridge is inserted. Edited July 12, 2012 by atari8warez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I think it would be more of a faff on to install the board upside down and get the ribbon cables and clips to avoid the components beneath on the motherboard than it would to undo a couple of screws once every few years. You'll still have to take the lid off the machine, so - with a screwdriver already in your hand - you're already well prepared to take the U1MB out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I respectfully disagree about the faff factor FJC.... , mounting it upside down means the ribbon cables will have less kink and that can only be better for the cables, right now they have to be wrapped around and twisted multiple times for a proper fit. Also nothing will be touching the components beneath as most of the board is over the OS socket anyway...and the only protruding parts are the two ribbon cable sockets which by the way are made of plastic and don't touch anything anyway. The other benefit as I said already would be the battery being on the "right" side of the PCB for easier access. Less disassembling means less chances for screw-ups which is another positive aspect... What negatives do you see...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I see it as a solution without a problem: if you can take the lid off to get at the battery, you can loosen the stand-offs (no need to remove the cables) and get at the battery. It seems to me a solution without the problem. As for the kinks in the ribbon cable: it would appear to be six of one and half a dozen of the other. And if something goes wrong with a PLCC flash when the unit is fitted upside down, you'll have to take the board off anyway. But: if undoing two screws every leap-year is courting disaster, then by all means... upside-down it is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 But: if undoing two screws every leap-year is courting disaster, then by all means... upside-down it is! Nothing wrong with a bottoms-up install every so often Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloopy Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 If you mount it upside down the bits might fall out, and all over the A8's mobo... Then you will have a big mess... sloopy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Now let's get to the juicy stuff..... I finally started to play around with U1MB and found that sometimes the 800XL will freeze in the middle of the boot. That usually happens after I change the config, press "S" and then "Q" to quit and re-boot. It does not happen often but when it does happen going back to setup and restarting from the setup screen (without changing anything) will fix it. Strange!!. I am wondering if this is related to RAM (I remember some old memory upgrades needed that the computer turned off for at least a few seconds before it's re-started to clear the contents of the RAM) One other thing, I experience some screen corruption and some random characters appearing on the Setup screen when a cartridge is inserted. Save and Quit... hmmm are you sure this shouldn't be Save and C (Cold Boot)? Q is Quit and continue. Perhaps this results sometimes in freezing Atari? Garbage means instable Atari. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) If you mount it upside down the bits might fall out, and all over the A8's mobo... Then you will have a big mess... sloopy. Heck, how did I forget about those nasty bits Sloopy , getting older by the day!!... Edited July 13, 2012 by atari8warez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I see it as a solution without a problem: if you can take the lid off to get at the battery, you can loosen the stand-offs (no need to remove the cables) and get at the battery. It seems to me a solution without the problem. As for the kinks in the ribbon cable: it would appear to be six of one and half a dozen of the other. And if something goes wrong with a PLCC flash when the unit is fitted upside down, you'll have to take the board off anyway. But: if undoing two screws every leap-year is courting disaster, then by all means... upside-down it is! You may not know this FJC, but I am a disaster waiting to happen around electronics..... :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) Now let's get to the juicy stuff..... I finally started to play around with U1MB and found that sometimes the 800XL will freeze in the middle of the boot. That usually happens after I change the config, press "S" and then "Q" to quit and re-boot. It does not happen often but when it does happen going back to setup and restarting from the setup screen (without changing anything) will fix it. Strange!!. I am wondering if this is related to RAM (I remember some old memory upgrades needed that the computer turned off for at least a few seconds before it's re-started to clear the contents of the RAM) One other thing, I experience some screen corruption and some random characters appearing on the Setup screen when a cartridge is inserted. Save and Quit... hmmm are you sure this shouldn't be Save and C (Cold Boot)? Q is Quit and continue. Perhaps this results sometimes in freezing Atari? Garbage means instable Atari. Yes, Save and Quit. Quit is the only option for exiting the setup menu and it does a cold start. There is no C option. Ican of course simply power down and up but Q is really all one needs. Now for the garbage.... I did go with the cable embedded resistor way of installing the board, didn't cut any traces on the Mobo. Would that be the cause of unstability? My 800XL only has the Chroma mod, the rest is stock, so why should it be unstable, never had any problems with that machine before the U1MB upgrade, and the random garbage characters only appear if I go to the setup menu when a cart is inserted into the cartridge port. Edited July 13, 2012 by atari8warez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 There is no C option. The fact that it is not shown on the screen, does not mean that this feature is not available! C = Coldboot. Simply try this: After a succesful boot press help + reset. Q = quit (no coldboot) back to atari. C = Coldboot. Probably changing config + Save + Q will do a coldboot too (because you changed config), but I never do this. I always do Save + C to be sure that a coldboot is performed. Now for the garbage.... I did go with the cable embedded resistor way of installing the board, didn't cut any traces on the Mobo. Would that be the cause of unstability? My 800XL only has the Chroma mod, the rest is stock, so why should it be unstable, never had any problems with that machine before the U1MB upgrade, and the random garbage characters only appear if I go to the setup menu when a cart is inserted into the cartridge port. The fact that you did not have any problems before doesn't prove anything. You just said it yourself: before you added an upgrade. I own over 100 Atari 8bit computers and I never had one atari that suffered in a stock condition from instability. But as soon as I went upgrading in some occasions problems happened. You say the problem only happens with cartridge. Untrue: you already mentionned another problem with booting. And adding a cartridge to an already upgraded atari, is perhaps 'too much' for that machine. I have had this with a 576KB 600XL. Machine worked 100% fine... but as soon as I added my Synassembler cartrdige there happened strange things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fratzengeballer Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 sometimes upside down just comes in handy.... a pitty that I forgot about the dropping bits.... sloopy, why didnt you tell that before tfhh built that ultimate into my 600 xl? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candle Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 Q will quit with coldboot if something important have changed, if not, it will preform warm reset interminient problems like Ray has, pointing on cabling issues/general stability on your place i would test flat cables with an ohm meter to find if some connections aren't a bit worse than others i had a two cases in cables build for last units shipped that the cable for ROM was bad - recrimping emulation end did the trick, but it was for me, the other one - shipped to Rob Patton, was not rebuild and remains not working Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 @Candle: Thank you for the tips Sebastian, I will check the cables..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 sometimes upside down just comes in handy.... a pitty that I forgot about the dropping bits.... sloopy, why didnt you tell that before tfhh built that ultimate into my 600 xl? Nice looking 600XL , gotta get one of these but my ebay hunt was not successul so far mainly due to high shipping charges from the US Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) The fact that it is not shown on the screen, does not mean that this feature is not available! C = Coldboot. I wasn't aware of the "C" option, will try it. The fact that you did not have any problems before doesn't prove anything. True, it doesn't prove any specific thing, but it does prove that something might have gone wrong with the upgrade You say the problem only happens with cartridge. Untrue: you already mentionned another problem with booting. Garbage/random character problem only happens when a cartridge is inserted. Freezing has nothing to do with the cartridge and it happens when there is no cartridge on the cart port. And adding a cartridge to an already upgraded atari, is perhaps 'too much' for that machine. That doesn't make any sense, U1MB is supposed to work with a cartridge in the cart slot. I have had this with a 576KB 600XL. Machine worked 100% fine... but as soon as I added my Synassembler cartrdige there happened strange things. So either that 576K upgrade is not compatible or had problems during installation, or the Synassembler cartridge doesn't follow strick Atari guideliness. Edited July 13, 2012 by atari8warez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I have had this with a 576KB 600XL. Machine worked 100% fine... but as soon as I added my Synassembler cartrdige there happened strange things. So either that 576K upgrade is not compatible or had problems during installation, or the Synassembler cartridge doesn't follow strick Atari guideliness. No - it is neither. Stock Ataris have some major design flaws that these upgrades are bringing out. Do a search for any thread talking about Phi02 stability issues going back over the last 3 years and you will see. Too much load on the bus, and the Phi02 timing will get skewed so badly that the read/write edges do not get triggered properly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Garbage/random character problem only happens when a cartridge is inserted. Freezing has nothing to do with the cartridge and it happens when there is no cartridge on the cart port. Sigh. You do not seem to understand what I try to write. My point is that your Atari might have (and probably that is the issue) stability issues. As long as it is stock, your atari works fine. Even with cart (although adding a cart, is some extra bus-load, so can trigger stability issues a bit). Let's face it this way: Your atari is unstable, but fits still between the working bandwith. Atari + U1MB fits for 99% between the working bandwith. Sometimes there are little flaws (like your booting issue) Atari + U1MB + Cart fits only for 90% in this working bandwith, so larger issues occur (you see that with the garbage in the ultimate setup). The more you add to this atari, the bigger the issues. That is how this problem works. That doesn't make any sense, U1MB is supposed to work with a cartridge in the cart slot. Doh. That was not what I tried to explain. Read above. Atari + U1MB + Cart is 'too much' for YOUR machine. Not too much for a good working atari. So your goal is: fixing stability issues in your atari, so your atari + u1mb + cart will work fine. So either that 576K upgrade is not compatible or had problems during installation, or the Synassembler cartridge doesn't follow strick Atari guideliness. No. The 576KB upgrade is 100% compatile and so is the synassembler. It was an instable 600XL. Fixing that issue, fixed the problem. When I would 'downgrade' this Atari back to stock 16KB, but let it work with the atari 1064KB memory upgrade, it would not accept my BlackBox, or it wouldn't accept a MyIDE cartridge. Stability issue. You are probably not aware of the existing issue(s) with Atari hardware. Google on Atari and Ph2 issues. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 (edited) You are probably not aware of the existing issue(s) with Atari hardware. Google on Atari and Ph2 issues. Oh I am well aware of those stability issues, but I don't think the problem is with the Atari, the problem is with miriads of upgrades trying to squize the last drop of juice from a hardware that wasn't designed to handle such demands in the first place. And I laugh when I see comments like "Atari's crappy implementation....." (and you know who usually talks like that). 8 bit computers were designed in the 70-80's for "Home" use and not to display on LCD screens, or access data from super fast HDs, or store data on SD/CF cards etc etc....Atari designers certainly didn't expect users to run server farms from a measly 8 bit computer's PBI bus.... So blaming a hardware design for something that the hardware was not designed for and never supposed to encounter is lame to say the least. As a hardware designer one must make sure that the hardware that goes into an ages old VINTAGE computer meets the original hardware's design objectives and take precautions to assure that, no matter how many other competitive mods exists in that computer. So if a new upgrade is a liability on the limited capability system bus, that's not the system's fault. In my book if a hardware upgrade can not work within the limits of the host system without problems and needs me to turn my 8 bit computer into a FrankenAtari by cutting/stripping here and there, by adding this and that and by wiring pins to other pins etc.. etc... it begs to question the new upgrade not the original computer..... Note that I am not making any references to any particular hardware designer here, so no individual should take offence. Edited July 14, 2012 by atari8warez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.