candle Posted July 24, 2012 Author Share Posted July 24, 2012 (edited) each and every u1mb board was tested inside atari 1200xl computer boo boo boo and 600xl was heavly used during u1mb development Edited July 24, 2012 by candle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Ok great so i was wrong in my assumption, not ashamed to admit that,, i just hoped i wasnt as i can not explain why it didnt work with my 800xl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Seeing that the majority of problems (at least so far) lays with the 800XL installations one can not help but think that there are differences in between the two enough to make some 800XL installations to fail. It works perfect in my 800XL. You can not build a theory on one single case right? I know someone (Fox-1 knows this guy too hehe) who tried ONE harddisk once on his parity-upgraded blackbox... yes he tried ONE harddisk with parity... and then he stated: this upgrade works with 99.9% of all harddisks. Hmmm. When you scroll back in this thread you will find my respond to your problem. Your Atari 800XL seems to have an issue. An issue that does not occur in a stock state, but it does occur when you are going to upgrade this one. Like I wrote in the message where I declared to have over 100 of these atari 8bit machines... I have these two, and I put a sticker on the bottom: do not expand this one! From all machines I think I have two or three of these. There are a few components who can do 'funny' things. I once fixed a mysteriously failing machine by replacing the 74LS08! Even all these TTL chips, used from different brands or even used from different batches... they all work within a certain range of 'specs' ... but together it is still (sometimes) a miracle that the atari works so good. The most important thing to understand is, that you can NOT compare a siobased peripheral (like your sio2pc interface or whatever thing that is hooked up to the SIO bus) with something that is connected to the PBI, cartridge port, or an upgrade like U1MB. Why? Because those things are litterly connected directly to the same lines as where most of the components of the Atari connected to. Things connected to the sio bus aren't (this makes sense, since this is a SERIAL bus, and not a PARALLEL bus!) In one of your first reports you already mentioned that the problem suddenly appeared while using a cart. And here we go again: that is another 'thing' that hooks up (almost) directly to address/data and control lines in the atari. Although the atari is designed this way, and it usually 'always' works... it is really not so strange that in a already 'suspicious'/'weak' atari, the issues get worse when you hook up a cartridge. My conclusion about your problem has nothing to do with your skills, or used components. My conclusion was, and still is, that there is a not yet discovered problem with your atari 800xl. And yes: you (and I!) do not have the tools to investigate that. I'm in the (lucky) circumstance that I have zillions of components to swap. And yes, I have done this so many times, that I can do this without hurting anything. Even in the worst XE. (And yes: I started doing this almost 20 years ago, and YES in those years I ruined a lot of equipment) So please try to focus again on the facts. And enjoy your ultimate 1MB. As far as I see this ... the atari hobby is fun right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roydea6 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I installed one into a 800xl last week with not problems, and installed another into a 130xe this week, with only a little mild cursing. I sure would like to update the OS rom with the ones that I use. And the SDX rom so I could personalize the 'config.sys'. DITTO: @Marius1976 for this statement And enjoy your ultimate 1MB. As far as I see this ... the atari hobby is fun right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 And enjoy your ultimate 1MB. As far as I see this ... the atari hobby is fun right? Yes it is Marius, and I will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spamh8r Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Are these still available? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari8bitCarts Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Has anyone used the adaptor? I have both for my 800XL but haven't found the time to install. But the Adaptor sounds like it should solve the 800xl issues? http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/191426-u1mb-mmu-adapter-board/ Or am I missing something (again ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) Has anyone used the adaptor? I have both for my 800XL but haven't found the time to install. But the Adaptor sounds like it should solve the 800xl issues? http://www.atariage....-adapter-board/ Or am I missing something (again ) Hey Chris, according to others including Candle U1MB should not have any problems with 800XL. I was unable to get mine to work with it though for not so clear reasons (to me). It simply refused to be stable with my 800XL. The issues i had were nothing that can be solved with Dropcheck's adaptor. So I decided to put it into my 130XE and the install was smooth as ice cream. Still puzzled as to why it didn't work in the 800XL but others report that their installs worked, so in all likelihood yours will be fine too. Anyway, I used the board just a bit mainly to test my installation and it seems to work fine as intended, however in the coming days I'll be using it more regularly in a development environment so will have a better idea. That adaptor makes it easier for you to install U1MB and already includes resistors that you need to either solder to the Atari mobo or embed them into the MMU Cable. So if your 800XLs are fully socketed all you need to do is to solder 4 wires to the Xl mobo and use Dropchecks adator to connect the U1MB, otherwise you will need to desolder MMU and OS ROM, put sockets in place for the U1MB to connect to, in this case Dropcheck's board still is useful but most work will be with desoldering and soldering the sockets anyway (which I had to do with both machines) Edited July 25, 2012 by atari8warez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venom4728a Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) I used the adapter board in my 800xl install, I had no issues. The adapter board eliminates cutting the traces to add in the resistors. Others have added the resistors into the ribbon cable as another way around it. I did not want to mess with the 130xe and its finicky traces, I sent mine to sloopy for a VBXE / U1mb Install. Robert Edited July 25, 2012 by venom4728a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari8bitCarts Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Thanx! When you get done with your 800xl (I guess you did). A step by step guide would be awesome! Is there a place to add guide and instructions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+poobah Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Did an install in an XEGS, took a bunch of pics for a proper install guide, but here's the real important one for now.... Where to solder the 4 wires. I picked right off Freddie and Sally. I don't normally like soldering right to chip legs, but it was too convenient to pass up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venom4728a Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 I will not be home until 2nd week in August, I have no pics of my personal install. My soldering skills are improving but not sure I want to show them to the world. I used pics from both the U1mb thread and from Candle's site to install mine. Robert 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wood_jl Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Thanks to you guys for posting/linking-to pictures. It's all still out of my [hamfisted soldering] league, but at least I feel like I'm learning here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 For anyone who may need it, here's my U1MB 130XE installation guide, as promised earlier.... You can download a higher resolution of the document (2.45MB) file from here U1MB 130XE Installation (low res).pdf 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Firedawg Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 For anyone who may need it, here's my U1MB 130XE installation guide, as promised earlier.... You can download a higher resolution of the document (2.45MB) file from here Very nice work Ray! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloopy Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Looks nice... now where is that guy who was complaining about needing a better install manual? Finally a user made one... sloopy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wood_jl Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 For anyone who may need it, here's my U1MB 130XE installation guide, as promised earlier.... Still above my head, but educational, and nicely-done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Thank you guys, hope it will help somebody.... And a few small additions (mainly on parts list) Higher resolution version U1MB 130XE Installation (low res).pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Haha. I was one of the people who wrote we could use one of these docs. Great job atari8warez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Oh one serious tip about desoldering. If you really want to save your pcb and you do not have the money for a professional desolder station.... Do not try to save the part you have to remove. First cut as delicate as possible with the right tools al pins. Then remove part. Then remove pins from pcb by using solder iron and a flat screwdriver or better: magnetic flat screwdriver. At last desolder the wholes. I use a heated desolder pump which is very cheap. I never kill a pcb anymore since I work this way. Oh one more thing: If you can not get the last step done, first SOLDER again the part you want to desolder. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 You don't need to destroy ICs in the desoldering process. Why people recommend clipping pins off is beyond me. It's mega easy to remove a soldered in DIP without damaging it or the board. The trickiest part is when a pin goes into a thick ground or power plane, but you just leave those for last and use a slightly different method (lever IC up whilst applying heat). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 @rybags The advice is for the less skilled people. When your priority is in saving the pcb it really is preferred to cut pins first. It happens quit a lot that one or two pins refuse to come of the board while saving the ic. The chance is big that you damage the board then. If you have better tools and better skills it might be a different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 @rybags The advice is for the less skilled people. When your priority is in saving the pcb it really is preferred to cut pins first. It happens quit a lot that one or two pins refuse to come of the board while saving the ic. The chance is big that you damage the board then. If you have better tools and better skills it might be a different story. This is the method I recommend for replacing MT RAM chips in a 130XE as well, I don't think it's worth the effort to try to identify/save any that may still be good and it reduces the risk of damage to the circuit board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 (edited) You don't need to destroy ICs in the desoldering process. Why people recommend clipping pins off is beyond me. It's mega easy to remove a soldered in DIP without damaging it or the board. The trickiest part is when a pin goes into a thick ground or power plane, but you just leave those for last and use a slightly different method (lever IC up whilst applying heat). One reason that comes to mind is speed. Much faster to remove cut pins and easier to clean the holes from solder (depending on what desoldering tools one has). As a person who only uses braid for desoldering, I would definitly go the clipping way if I am removing a dead IC for example. If the IC is salvagable and needed that's a different story of course. Edited July 27, 2012 by atari8warez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Eyvind Bernhardsen Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 (edited) Oh one serious tip about desoldering. If you really want to save your pcb and you do not have the money for a professional desolder station.... Do not try to save the part you have to remove. Is that really helpful advice in a thread about a product that requires you to reuse the chips you desolder? Edited July 27, 2012 by Eyvind Bernhardsen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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