CHIPPER - Ideas and questions

[gamercomposer]

Hello,

 

I have been researching on this forum for a little over a month now trying to get a idea of a workflow to get some music written in Chipper.

I am a little confused and I feel like I am spinning my wheels. I am still reading the manual of Chipper but I truly appreciate the screenshots and run down of the Simple Instrument window and the Playlist window. I read of two workflows that may work but I am stuck. One workflow that could work but I am stuck there too.

 

First I will say, this is my seventh tracker that I have taught myself so, I know my way around them well. I even learned Arkos Tracker 2 to ship music for the CPC Amstrad last year. I even downloaded Furnace today to see if there is another workflow since I read on this forum it supports Lynx.

Workflow Suggestion 1:

1. Write the music in OpenMPT > Export to MOD
2. Import MOD in Chipper (from my understanding the next step was to CONVERT MOD 2 Lynx (which I did) However, the music does not quite sound the same from what I wrote in the MOD. I know this has to do with the instruments that Chipper is using and the Timer setting for Tempo.

If this was to convert well and properly from the .MOD what would be the next step?

 

1. For BLL Driver > Export to LynxAss

or

2. For TC Driver > Export BLL LynxAss

 

Workflow Suggestion 2:

1. Write the music in MUSEScore (according to Karri) because this has volume control. (I am unsure what volume control is unless they mean dynamics such as "p, mp, mf, f, ff ")
2. Export the MIDI
3. Import the MIDI to a Tracker like OpenMPT or MIDI2SASS (I can not get MID2SASS to load as an application so, this is where I get stuck) I was told that MID2SASS is only if you have a .MID file and want to convert it to SASS, but it only converts the score, not the instruments. Okay, that makes simple sense to me, however, how does one do that? Do I drag a .MID file to that icon? I do not think that is the way based on the read me file. So, why does the application not load? (I'm on Windows 10 btw)

I do not know where to go from here. My theory is that if the MIDI were to successfully import to the OpenMPT tracker, then I could finesse the notes and start the workflow suggestion 1 process.

 

Workflow Suggestion 3 for a SASS:

1. Write the Instruments
2. Write the Music
3. Check in BupBoop
4. Test in HandyMusic

Unfortunately, I am lost here because when I write the instruments in Chipper and tried to load them in, what I think is BupBoop (PlayTone) is the only application that seems to boot/load, the instruments do not load or play in PlayTone So, I do not think this process will work for me. My assumption is that I need to know Assembly to get it working and I am completely green to that. What I am trying to achieve in this workflow is instrument testing before I write any music to assure it will run on a Lynx.

 

Please feel free to link me to other threads if this already been answered or a page in the Chipper manual to clarify my confusion. Screenshots are VERY helpful. So, if it does not take up a lot of time, I would be most grateful to have those.

I know this is a lot but thank you kindly in advance for your replies.

[LordKraken]

calling the @miker god

[Turbo Laser Lynx]

Here's a getting started guide I wrote down some years ago. I think the tracker window is not necessarily that complicated in the end, and is similar to other trackers. However I have a poor understanding on how to create sounds other than experimenting or borrowing presets, but there's demosongs, instruments, tremolos, waveforms and vibratos in the data folder. As LordKraken mentioned miker would have the best insight into that if he wants to share some knowledge. ^^

About the workflow, personally I just write the music in whatever DAW and put in the tones one by one into the tracker. I suppose someone really fluent with trackers and music theory / composing could just write in the music straight into the tracker. Too hard for me though and that might remove some of the composing joy for many. Might be more inspirational to write music on a more regular instrument. 😅

 

Chipper can export songs/code for all the usual Lynx programming 'tool chains': BLL LyxAss, NewCC65 and CC65 "Remake", but the exported code is to be put into a Lynx program, EDIT this is false: it doesn't spit out ready made executables for listening on the tracks on a Lynx. I don't have experience with using chipper for the other ones, but for Karri's CC65 "Remake" there's ready made functions for playing the music.
 

 

Edited January 13 by Turbo Laser Lynx

[gamercomposer]

Thank you @Turbo Laser Lynxfor the reply. I remember coming across this thread early in my research last month. I'll give it another look.

Your workflow sounds good. Although, I am curious as to why you do not import the MIDI from the music you write in your DAW? Did you run to a workflow issue (besides it being too hard)?

[Turbo Laser Lynx]

I'm not 100% sure anymore (can't remember clearly, it's been quite a long while), but I think I had some issues exporting the midi from the DAW I was using in a format compatible with Chipper. I seem to remember the DAW only wanted to export midi in some modern format with a hundred channels and a ton of extra stuff that wouldn't work to import to chipper. I think in most games there's not necessarily that much memory for the music either, so my own songs have been quite short loops in the end. In other words not horribly painful to put them in manually.

Edited January 12 by Turbo Laser Lynx

[gamercomposer]

This makes sense. MIDI can be a pain sometimes especially once you get into Sysex programming.

[sage]

I wrote so several times:

- Chipper is only some (bad) gui for the text/macro based assembler code which is compiled into the lynx binaries.

- the version public is not the latest one, but no time/interesst for bug fixes. esp midi import was only added in private distributed version

- contrary to what someone wrote above, chipper can directly compile lynx ROMs for test listening. provided that you have the tools installed.

 

BLL/TC name the driver. BLL based one or Zaku based one. The later is better, but the instrument support for chipper is missing. Means, you optimize the instruments by hand and copy them over into the exported file.

So the workflow is sub-optimal.

 

nowadays i prefer to edit the instruments directly on the lynx and check them by sending midi commands by comlynx. (und update/download them by comlynx). Even so the tooling is trivial (and the code available on github),you still need a proper(!) usb/serial/comlynx cable.as the tollon the lynx can play not only four channel from live midi, but also read from ROM, it is a nice but ressource hungry midi/synth-player.

Some example ROMs can be found here in the forum. Or check the game Tropsy, which was written around a first version of the player.

 

And no: I do not plan any more updates to chipper.

[gamercomposer]

Sorry @sage the post was not intended to offend you. I'm fairly new to this space so, I was just trying to gain an understanding for workflow is all. I did read your posts about GUI and I personally have no issues with it as I'm getting along fine with making something in Chipper. The more I learn each day the better I am getting at it (like anything I suppose). I am clear that you have no time or interest to update it. Thank you for what you made. It is more than what I could do. I have a deep respect for those that make music software for us composers.

 

Thank you for your additional clarification/ direction on the BLL / TC Drivers as well as the additional information on the way you edit instruments. I'll be adding that to my notes.

 

Many thanks again.

[+karri]

For a musician I believe Chipper is the easiest and fastest way to get the work done.

[Nop90]

I usually import a mod track in chipper than I define the instruments in a tricky way.

 

I found that the chipper tune sounds better if all the instruments are based on the same note, and I use C as a base. A mod file uses wav samples that not alway are tuned on a C tone, so I use a guitar tuner to get the tune of a  sample in the mod file, than I shift the notes of that instrument in chipper to adjust the tone. E.g. if I get that a sample has a D tune, I raise all the notes of that instrument in chipper of one tone (C->D, D->E, E->F#, and so on). 

 

Sometimes I also adjust the octave of the notes (+/- 1 octave) of one instrument if the notes are slightly out of tune with the other instruments, or if the instrument sound has dstorsion/noise.

 

I used this method in the first version of the Xump port starting from the original retroguru mods, with a nice results.

 

Than @miker made his magic remaking the tunes a lot better. 

Edited January 13 by Nop90

[Turbo Laser Lynx]

17 hours ago, sage said:

 

- midi import was only added in private distributed version

 

- contrary to what someone wrote above, chipper can directly compile lynx ROMs for test listening. provided that you have the tools installed.

 

Ah sorry, my bad I forgot you could do that! I edited the original post to not confuse someone who reads it. Also I checked my chipper folder and apparently I got the midi import mixed up with the mod import.

  

12 hours ago, karri said:

For a musician I believe Chipper is the easiest and fastest way to get the work done.

I think so too if you don't wanna do stuff in code.

Not sure about the state of some of the other trackers though. I seem to remember there were promises that some other ones would be able to export for the Lynx or some such?

Edited January 13 by Turbo Laser Lynx

[miker]

Haha, really no magic, nor rocket science here.

 

Starting work with Chipper I've tuned two basic instruments (using Atari 8-bit music program Chaos Music Composer).

Feedback and Timer gauges are revelant below:

 

1) Pure sound:

 

2) Bass sound:

 

Other sound (ie. for percussion) may come from another Feedback settings.

 

All the rest of "magic" is to manipulate all the rest gauges (ie. Shifter, Behaviour and Volume) to make instruments sound different.

 

Regarding my workflow there isn't one recipe. Sometimes I start simply with Chipper, sometimes I use some RMT (Raster Musoc Tracker) tune (or at least its matrix) and sometimes the source comes from MOD file, so there isn't one way I work with Chipper.  

 

 

[miker]

Here's my very first tune in Chipper that got released (Lynx Quest title).

mystery6a.lcp

[gamercomposer]

On 1/13/2024 at 4:04 AM, Nop90 said:

I usually import a mod track in chipper than I define the instruments in a tricky way.

 

I found that the chipper tune sounds better if all the instruments are based on the same note, and I use C as a base. A mod file uses wav samples that not alway are tuned on a C tone, so I use a guitar tuner to get the tune of a  sample in the mod file, than I shift the notes of that instrument in chipper to adjust the tone. E.g. if I get that a sample has a D tune, I raise all the notes of that instrument in chipper of one tone (C->D, D->E, E->F#, and so on). 

 

Sometimes I also adjust the octave of the notes (+/- 1 octave) of one instrument if the notes are slightly out of tune with the other instruments, or if the instrument sound has dstorsion/noise.

 

I used this method in the first version of the Xump port starting from the original retroguru mods, with a nice results.

 

Than @miker made his magic remaking the tunes a lot better. 

Thank you for the reply @Nop90 this MOD import workflow makes sense to me.

Great tips about using the guitar tuner to get the wav sample to be in tune in the mod. I certainly experienced this when writing for the 2A03 chip but could not figure out a workaround. So, thank you.

 

Again deeply appreciated for you sharing your workflow with me.

[gamercomposer]

13 hours ago, miker said:

Haha, really no magic, nor rocket science here.

 

Starting work with Chipper I've tuned two basic instruments (using Atari 8-bit music program Chaos Music Composer).

Feedback and Timer gauges are revelant below:

 

1) Pure sound:

 

2) Bass sound:

 

Other sound (ie. for percussion) may come from another Feedback settings.

 

All the rest of "magic" is to manipulate all the rest gauges (ie. Shifter, Behaviour and Volume) to make instruments sound different.

 

Regarding my workflow there isn't one recipe. Sometimes I start simply with Chipper, sometimes I use some RMT (Raster Musoc Tracker) tune (or at least its matrix) and sometimes the source comes from MOD file, so there isn't one way I work with Chipper.  

 

 

@miker Thank you kindly the the response and for sharing screenshots too. I did get this far learned the Feedback an Timer functions but refreshers are always good 😄

Good to know there are multiple workflows to get something happening. Thank you as well for sharing the music files too. Time to make some "magic" 😁

Edited January 15 by gamercomposer

[sage]

On 1/13/2024 at 2:20 PM, gamercomposer said:

Sorry @sage the post was not intended to offend you.

It was not taken as offence. sorry if my message was to "aggressive".

 

concerning the tools i use nowadays. if there is interest i can release (new) versions on github.

[obschan]

1 hour ago, sage said:

concerning the tools i use nowadays. if there is interest i can release (new) versions on github.

Sage, we're always eager for new exciting tools! 😛