JohnnyRockets Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I have the following: Atari 2600 & Atari 7800. Question: Will the Harmony cartridge work in the Atari 7800? Observation from reading the AA forums: I get the feeling the 7800 is harder to program for then the 2600 (correct?), but the payoff would be better grapics (correct?)... Is this correct? Or better stated, what are your thoughts on this? Thanks! JR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Question: Will the Harmony cartridge work in the Atari 7800? Yes. Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyRockets Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share Posted May 14, 2012 Man, it is insane how fast forum members respond! Thanks Mitch! This forum is the most active (regardless of subject) of any forum I have ever seen! JR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Observation from reading the AA forums: I get the feeling the 7800 is harder to program for then the 2600 (correct?), but the payoff would be better grapics (correct?)... Is this correct? Or better stated, what are your thoughts on this? Its not clear from your post if you want to use your Harmony to run 7800 specific games. If that's your intention that won't work because the Harmony is for running 2600 games on either a 2600 or a 7800. To develop on a 7800 you'll either need a CC2 (rare and pricey nowadays) or program your own EPROMs or use a Dev. OS and a home made RAM cart or wait for H2 to become available. The H2 is Harmony's big brother that can run 2600 and 7800 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyRockets Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share Posted May 14, 2012 GroovyBee, Okay, let me make sure I get this.... I can use the Harmony to run 2600 games on the 7800, but there will be no real difference in resolution, quality, etc? Harmony2 for the 7800 is in the works? Any ETA? Dev. OS? Hmmm what would that be? RAM cart I understand... Would you say one is harder to program than the other in your opinion? Thanks! JR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I can use the Harmony to run 2600 games on the 7800, but there will be no real difference in resolution, quality, etc? Correct! The 7800 BIOS will detect a 2600 cart and put the unit into 2600 mode so you can play the game. 2600 games can/do look a little more washed out than they would be on a real 2600 but that is down to the electronics. Harmony2 for the 7800 is in the works? Any ETA? No ETA at the moment. The best thing to do is keep an eye on the "H2" thread in the 7800 forum for more information on its release status. Dev. OS? Hmmm what would that be? RAM cart I understand... You need to replace the 7800 BIOS on the motherboard with a new OS that downloads game ROM images via the joystick port. The games need a RAM cart (a modified existing game cart PCB) in the slot to have data copied into for execution. Would you say one is harder to program than the other in your opinion? You have the choice of programming in batari Basic or 6502 assembler on the 2600. On the 7800 you are stuck with 6502 assembler (at the moment). The 2600 needs a cycle accurate display kernel to get things done in your game's playfield. The MARIA video chip in the 7800 does more work for you in generating the display which means you don't need a tight kernel to get things done but you have to use more CPU cycles in data preparation for it. Out of the two the 2600 is the hardest to get a game done for because of the way it works. In either case you'll need to think about how to make the best use of the resources available to get your game looking and playing how you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyRockets Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share Posted May 14, 2012 You need to replace the 7800 BIOS on the motherboard with a new OS that downloads game ROM images via the joystick port. The games need a RAM cart (a modified existing game cart PCB) in the slot to have data copied into for execution. JR: Interesting! I'll have to look this one up as to how to do it. Out of the two the 2600 is the hardest to get a game done for because of the way it works. In either case you'll need to think about how to make the best use of the resources available to get your game looking and playing how you want. JR: Why do you think that the bulk of people (at least is seems that way, could be wrong) program for the 2600 if it is harder to do? Interesting. Thanks! JR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 JR: Interesting! I'll have to look this one up as to how to do it. The best place to start is Eckhard Stolberg's site :- http://home.arcor.de/estolberg/tools/index.html JR: Why do you think that the bulk of people (at least is seems that way, could be wrong) program for the 2600 if it is harder to do? Interesting. There are far more people into the 2600 scene compared to the 7800 scene. Plus the difficulty is a good personal challenge too. If you are going to spend 100s of hours tweaking and refining both code and your game play you might as well find it interesting and challenging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyRockets Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share Posted May 14, 2012 Wow, thanks GroovyBee, you help has been great! JR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Wow, thanks GroovyBee, you help has been great! No worries. Have fun! That's what developing for retro systems is all about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyRockets Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share Posted May 14, 2012 GB, Which one do you develop for? JR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Which one do you develop for? 7800 and Intellivision at the moment. There are a few other machines I'd like to do something for at some point too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyRockets Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share Posted May 14, 2012 GB, Do you have anything finished, or just WIP? Don't mean to offend if you have developed a ton, I'm kind of new the forums. JR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Why do you think that the bulk of people (at least is seems that way, could be wrong) program for the 2600 if it is harder to do? Interesting. One reason could be that the Atari 2600 is more beloved since it was the first major console that a lot of people had. Atari 2600 graphics and sound effects can also seem to be more amazing and magical than what the Atari 7800 usually offers. I wanted to make my own Atari 2600 games since 1982, and thanks to batari Basic and Visual batari Basic, I have a chance to do that. I'm not interested in a difficult personal challenge, I just want to make games for my favorite console. The easier it becomes to do that, the happier I am. Various AtariAge users seem to find ways to make batari Basic easier to use and more fun to use almost every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyRockets Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share Posted May 14, 2012 RT, Thanks for that good point! I've been reading up on BB a bit and it really looks great. It's time for me to "dive in" to programming and after weighing all the options, I'll probably pick an entry point with my 2600/Harmony/Visual bB combo. Then I can branch out to a deeper understanding of ASM and other consoles. At least that is my thought at the moment. Thanks! JR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Do you have anything finished, or just WIP? Don't mean to offend if you have developed a ton, I'm kind of new the forums. Two completed games and several WIPs on the go. Have a look at my AA profile for game development threads. You might also be interested in PacManPlus's games so check out his development threads too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 It's time for me to "dive in" to programming and after weighing all the options, I'll probably pick an entry point with my 2600/Harmony/Visual bB combo. Then I can branch out to a deeper understanding of ASM and other consoles. At least that is my thought at the moment. You might want to get your ideas down on paper first to make sure that the 2600 can handle what you want to do. Programming on resource constrained systems is a bit of an art form in itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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