Atari ST 'System on a chip' (SoC)

[carmel_andrews]

link only

 

 

dev-docs.atariforge.org/files/alltogether.pdf

 

 

Interesting

 

i am assuming/guesssing it's only the ST and not the mega or ste machines....perhaps that is to come

Edited July 10, 2012 by carmel_andrews

[+Gemintronic]

I don't think this is a product. It's partial code to program an FPGA board. Very, very far from what an average enthusiast can put together.

[Klapauzius]

I guess you all know about the Suska?

This is already complete and funtional.

 

http://experiment-s.de/en/

[carmel_andrews]

Perhaps suska is a project based on the above (since suska is an STE on a chip and the one i refer to i guess in just a plain ST on a chip)

 

Wasn't the ste shipped with shifter II and not just shifter

[ParanoidLittleMan]

I'm sure that this is just another abandoned project. Why ? I mailed author some 2 years ago.

[macgoo]

I get the impression that very few people still care about the ST the same way they do about other computers they owned in the 80s etc. I see little hardware projects (FPGA Arcade and Minimig Amiga based FPGA projects could very easily be adapted to host the ST emulation as the 68k is already done the hard work is finished) and never hear of much homebrew activity.

 

For someone who knows about programming FPGA cores this would be a good project. The shifter and YM chip etc would take much less time to do than the poor old Amiga Agnus/Daphne/Paula/Gary chips took to emulate in FPGA.

[dark willow]

I get the impression that very few people still care about the ST the same way they do about other computers they owned in the 80s etc. I see little hardware projects (FPGA Arcade and Minimig Amiga based FPGA projects could very easily be adapted to host the ST emulation as the 68k is already done the hard work is finished) and never hear of much homebrew activity.

 

For someone who knows about programming FPGA cores this would be a good project. The shifter and YM chip etc would take much less time to do than the poor old Amiga Agnus/Daphne/Paula/Gary chips took to emulate in FPGA.

 

I think the Firebee project says a lot about how people out there really are passionate about the platform. - http://acp.atari.org/

[ParanoidLittleMan]

I get the impression that very few people still care about the ST the same way they do about other computers they owned in the 80s etc. I see little hardware projects (FPGA Arcade and Minimig Amiga based FPGA projects could very easily be adapted to host the ST emulation as the 68k is already done the hard work is finished) and never hear of much homebrew activity.

For someone who knows about programming FPGA cores this would be a good project. The shifter and YM chip etc would take much less time to do than the poor old Amiga Agnus/Daphne/Paula/Gary chips took to emulate in FPGA.

I agree that new developments about Atari ST serie are not so numerous as by some other popular oldies (C-64, Spectrum, Amiga, and even Atari XL). What is the reason is the right question.

 

Is doing shifter, MMU, etc. emul. in FPGA really so easy ? Don't know, but as I know, there are some details still not 100% clarified.

 

Personally, I'm not for projects like Firebee, CT60 and similar. In any case, we get just something partially compatible, much faster than original machines, but still too slow in compare to modern HW, and all it at high price and additional complicated usage, limited SW, drivers, HW support, etc.

 

Oldie is oldie, some competing with modern computers is pretty bad idea. Pen drive on Atari ST ? Sounds good and cheap. But doing adapter is not easy. And why, when we can solve it simpler, faster (UltraSatan, CF/IDE adapters). And cards are maybe just little more expensive than Pen drives.

Multitasking on some ST(E) ? No thanks - it is not my production machine.

 

Even doing new SW, especially games for ST(E), Falcon is something what I don't think as much wise. Why to spend hunderts, thousands of hours developing for old platform, while there is already at least 5000 game (including PD, SW) ? I bet that nobody seen all them. Myself discover every week some nice old game, what I never heard about ...

[+wood_jl]

I get the impression that very few people still care about the ST the same way they do about other computers they owned in the 80s etc

 

Judging by this, and other comments you've made, I get the impression that you were not an Atari computer user in the 80s, if you were around then and old enough. Although I can't remember what the other thread was, I believe it was in reference to 8-bit Atari (DK thread comes to mind).

 

That's all well and fine, but you should reserve such judgment (i.e. "very few") for instances in which you know what you're talking about. While there's not a whole lot of ST-related activity on AtariAge, clearly, if there were very few enthusiasts, sites like http://www.atari-forum.com/ wouldn't be as busy as it is, and sites like http://www.atarimania.com/atari-st-tt-falcon.html wouldn't have recently added ST support, which they have. Say "not as many" if you want, but "very few" - respective of what I have just linked to - clearly demonstrates the inaccuracy of your "impression." I do believe these resources (and many others) are utilized by more than a very few, whether to your liking or not.

[macgoo]

No I did indeed own an ST in 1985 and still own an ST, Mega and other bits and bobs.

 

My point is one of fact, compared to hardware projects for other platforms, and also home brew game development, I see a lot less activity on forums worldwide. I'm not talking about how many people talk about the machine I am talking about how many people do things in the real world for the machine (new hardware projects for classic machines, new software on a major scale etc)

 

Are people still making accelerators for the ST? Are people making things to interface an ST keyboard to a USB socket to build a Mini ITX PC inside an ST/Mega case easily and use the same keyboard and floppy drive with PC emulator to run apps? How many games are currently in development for the ST? How many groups still write demos every year without fail on the machine? Anyone working on drop in replacement ST motherboards with 16mhz 68k CPUs and USB ports and built in IDE adaptors etc etc? The answer is not encouraging to these questions. Nothing to do with what I think of the machine personally, I can't magic this enthusiasm up for stuff like this out of thin air. People either do this for the machine or they do not.

 

It is pure fact, the numbers don't lie, and whilst the ST didn't sell that differently to the XL/XE/800/400 computers it receives a far less passionate dedication in any visible form around the world.

 

So yes, relatively speaking, very few people are doing things for the ST now, didn't say people don't still talk about it or post messages relating to the machine on here and Atari-Forum etc.

[+poobah]

To see, one has only to look.

[+wood_jl]

My point is one of fact, compared to hardware projects for other platforms, and also home brew game development, I see a lot less activity on forums worldwide. I'm not talking about how many people talk about the machine I am talking about how many people do things in the real world for the machine (new hardware projects for classic machines, new software on a major scale etc)

 

Your point is one of opinion, not fact. Here's your original point - the one that I take issue with, once again:

 

I get the impression that very few people still care about the ST the same way they do about other computers they owned in the 80s etc.

 

That's your opinion - that "very few" people still care about the ST the same way they do about other computers they owned in the 80s. In order for it to be fact (rather than opinion), you'd have to conduct a scientific survey and produce some numbers. Good luck with that. I submit that more than a "very few" care. Whether or not there are a ton of new developments for the ST is a separate issue. I haven't created jack shit for the ST, and I care, as do lots of other people. Don't attempt to speak as to the magnitude of whether or not the rest of the world "cares," as you have no information to such. Perhaps a shitload of people care, but fewer hardware hackers and developers care. That's fine - it's a retro machine and it doesn't need many new developments to function as such, as is the case with any retro machine.

 

Are people still making accelerators for the ST? Are people making things to interface an ST keyboard to a USB socket to build a Mini ITX PC inside an ST/Mega case easily and use the same keyboard and floppy drive with PC emulator to run apps? How many games are currently in development for the ST? How many groups still write demos every year without fail on the machine? Anyone working on drop in replacement ST motherboards with 16mhz 68k CPUs and USB ports and built in IDE adaptors etc etc? The answer is not encouraging to these questions. Nothing to do with what I think of the machine personally, I can't magic this enthusiasm up for stuff like this out of thin air. People either do this for the machine or they do not.

 

You can make up a whole bunch of shit that they don't make - the sky's the limit, so go ahead and free-associate!!! It neither does - nor does not - mean whether or not anybody cares. The Firebee has already been mentioned, and you obviously ignored it in that list of shit above - why?

 

It is pure fact, the numbers don't lie, and whilst the ST didn't sell that differently to the XL/XE/800/400 computers it receives a far less passionate dedication in any visible form around the world.

 

Pure fact, my ass. You need to learn that your opinion does not translate to fact. Numbers? Let's see these fucking numbers, since you brought it up and spout like you have them. HA HA. They don't make a Firebee equivalent for the 400/800/XL/XE (or any of that shit in your list above) so to use your convoluted leaps of illogic, one could erroneously conclude that nobody gives a fuck about them, either, but we all know that people do.

 

So yes, relatively speaking, very few people are doing things for the ST now, didn't say people don't still talk about it or post messages relating to the machine on here and Atari-Forum etc.

 

Now the argument has changed to "very few people are doing things for the ST now." Again - Firebee - but that's not the original argument that "very few care." It's that opinion of yours that you laughably try to peddle as "fact" that I take issue with, and it's just plain fucking wrong.

 

I don't know what your intent is here, so I don't necessarily refer to you when I say that this isn't the first time a newbie comes in here - the Atari ST sub-forum of an Atari forum - and attempt to start a highly-opinionated shitstorm. I'm not sure what issues these people have that possesses them to do that, but I can certainly think of more productive use of one's time. Yeah, if one is hell-bent on starting a shitstorm, they'll probably encounter some resistance. Likewise, one will probably encounter some resistance in a Ford forum if went there to shit-talk Fords, a Chevy forum to shit-talk Chevys, an Amiga forum to shit-talk Amigas, and a Kirby vacuum cleaner forum to shit-talk Kirby vacuum cleaners. Is there nothing better to do? Why not go to an Amiga forum and shit-talk the ST there, where you'll probably find more people who agree. It's just smarter. If I've mistaken you intentions, I apologize. However, your opinion is still merely that, and you have no numbers, although you blow off like you do. I'd like to see them.

Edited July 14, 2012 by wood_jl

[+poobah]

Say guy who dropped into the Amy thread and derailed it with "The MT-32 is shit".

Atariksi 2.0????

[sh3-rg]

home brew game development

 

It's weird when I see people refer to making games on computers as 'homebrew' - it's just making games for your computer. Homebrew is a term best used to describe making games for machines like consoles that weren't designed to be tinkered with in that way (ie no keyboard/storage/etc.).

 

There's still people making games for the ST. Look at Coopy/paradize's stuff, they're still at it. Saboteur III was released this year by some other Frenchies. I don't keep up to date like I used to, but I know that's not it, that there are other prods in the pipeline (such as our own!).

 

So yes, relatively speaking, very few people are doing things for the ST now

 

Yes, relatively speaking there's less happening compared to other systems, but the ST wasn't as popular as some other machines back then so that's hardly an earth-shattering revelation. Doesn't mean there's *nothing* going on or that there is any reason for concern or debate - far from it. It still has an active following.

 

Maybe you just don't know where to look? Maybe a lot of ST fans prefer to do stuff for their Falcons/CT6x machines, with all their recent add-ons, as that's all fairly new and exciting. Maybe ST coders like to keep their stuff under their hats until it's ready (as we always used to do with Reservoir Gods games).

[Christos]

Actually homebrew should only be used for beers etc...

[OBO]

To get back on track with this topic..

So... if this project is completed, we could possibly end up having something really close to what the "Minimig" is for the Amiga, right ?

 

I had the opportunity to test one at last AC2012, and it was nice...( however I had issue playing some games because, well, each time I touch an Amiga, it crashes... more surely, I probably had misconfigured something playing with the settings)

 

So having a tiny small cute highly portable ST computer would be nice

(Side note, have you heard about the project to create an atari ST(E) core for the MCC ? )