Ebay buyers and sellers who wont leave feedback

[oldjd]

1-picture,is worth 1000 words

[iesposta]

Great comic. I feel that way when I get no feedback after four purchases in a row.

 

I had one bad auction where I was sent NHL 95 and the auction listing was for NHL 94.

I really wanted NHL 94, and since it was only around $7 I was going to forget the whole thing and not leave negative feedback.

I was offered to return the item for refund minus a restocking fee, but again it was around $7.

So then I left my first negative feedback after being a member since 1998, and the seller's manager started to contact me and I still wanted to forget the whole thing and didn't reply.

Surprise, they refunded the entire purchase price and I left revised positive feedback!

[boxpressed]

I know that this topic has been thoroughly debated on AA, but I'll reiterate that the seller needs to give feedback once the buyer pays, especially if the buyer pays within a day. The buyer has fulfilled his or her side of the bargain. A seller wanting the buyer to give feedback first may be remembering a time when sellers were allowed to give negative feedback to buyers. Sellers withholding feedback was a kind of self protection, a game I call "feedback chicken": who will be positive first? Sellers being able to leave negative feedback for buyers hasn't been the case for years on eBay.

 

Some sellers who do not give feedback first say that positive feedback from buyers tells them that everything arrived okay. This seems disingenuous to me. Believe me, if an item is not as described, the buyer will let you know. And if the seller is so interested if everything arrived okay, why don't they always follow up with this question if the buyer leaves no feedback? For all of the transactions that I've left no feedback (because some part of the transaction was unsatisfactory), a seller has followed up this way about 5% of the time. If there is a follow-up, it is usually the seller semi-demanding that I leave feedback, even if the seller hasn't left any for me.

[+Gemintronic]

Feedback is not really feedback when it comes to eBay. If someone provides average service they shouldn't expect a comment whatsoever yet sellers demand feedback. Not because they really want feedback but because it means something else on eBay. It's a false measure of a seller as it's expected. No buyer can trust it as such.

[Rex Dart]

Ebay buyers and sellers who wont leave feedback

 

The buyer owes the seller nothing but timely payment. And if I'm the buyer & haven't left feedback, I'm likely trying to save the seller the boo-hoo & heartache of receiving a negative for an item not-as-described. I'd rather not do it, but if they're going to keep pestering me... Hell, one time I left feedback claiming that the seller had signed me up for a white power mailing list because they were an ass.

[the.golden.ax]

Ebay buyers and sellers who wont leave feedback

 

The buyer owes the seller nothing but timely payment. And if I'm the buyer & haven't left feedback, I'm likely trying to save the seller the boo-hoo & heartache of receiving a negative for an item not-as-described. I'd rather not do it, but if they're going to keep pestering me... Hell, one time I left feedback claiming that the seller had signed me up for a white power mailing list because they were an ass.

 

As a buyer I leave feedback when I have something nice to say.

 

Case and point. I bought some NES decks in a lot and they came unpadded and he overcharged on shipping. There were not THREE issues or more so I just kept it to myself and went on. A few days go by and he asks for a positive. Then a week, he asks again. After the third request I asked him to please stop asking. Then the reply... he said he wouldn't stop asking until I left him what I owed, a positive. He got a negative, and I blocked him. He messaged me directly with lots of repeated vulgarity and had to be blocked from my email and reported. A day later he bought my cheapest item using another account (but linked to the same paypal address). He waited three weeks and negged me yesterday. eBay removed it within an hour, but still... sellers need to know that not getting feedback may be a GOOD thing and just leave well enough alone.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. eBay and Amazon need to just post the number of completed transactions and show a percentage of UNRESOLVED claims or complaints for reported issues. People who are willing to fix issues should NEVER get dinged.

[akator]

Sorry, but I've got to play devil's advocate here.

 

WTF has happened to the world that we have to provide "positive feedback" for people doing what they are supposed to? Why should anyone get positive feedback for simply doing what is expected in a normal business transaction? I don't kiss anyone's ass when I go to the convenience store, grocery store, or anywhere else. Those people sell me something and their reward is my money.

 

It's one thing if someone provides a service above expectations (packing, shipping, communication), but getting a 5 star rating every time someone simply performs a basic retail function is BS. Sellers shouldn't get positive feedback for doing what they were paid to do.

 

Buyer's are expected to pay immediately when completing any transaction in the real world. If they need a few days, they are expected to use a credit card. A buyer shouldn't be given positive feedback because they pay immediately after winning/BIN an eBay purchase, that should be a 100% requirement like it is everywhere else on the planet. Proof that eBay is fundamentally flawed and needs serious fixing.

[boxpressed]

Sorry, but I've got to play devil's advocate here.

 

WTF has happened to the world that we have to provide "positive feedback" for people doing what they are supposed to? Why should anyone get positive feedback for simply doing what is expected in a normal business transaction? I don't kiss anyone's ass when I go to the convenience store, grocery store, or anywhere else. Those people sell me something and their reward is my money.

 

It's one thing if someone provides a service above expectations (packing, shipping, communication), but getting a 5 star rating every time someone simply performs a basic retail function is BS. Sellers shouldn't get positive feedback for doing what they were paid to do.

 

Buyer's are expected to pay immediately when completing any transaction in the real world. If they need a few days, they are expected to use a credit card. A buyer shouldn't be given positive feedback because they pay immediately after winning/BIN an eBay purchase, that should be a 100% requirement like it is everywhere else on the planet. Proof that eBay is fundamentally flawed and needs serious fixing.

 

The issue is that eBay, for the most part, is not "real world" retail. It's always been a virtual marketplace that's different from other virtual marketplaces like Amazon (Amazon third-party sellers have their own feedback system). What's different is that there are thousands of different vendors, so it can't operate as if it were a real world marketplace or even a single-retailer virtual marketplace. It needs a different set of rules, and the feedback system, flawed as it is, is part of that. With Facebook "Likes" for retailers being like positive feedback, I would say that the rest of the retail world is actually becoming more like eBay.

[+thegoldenband]

WTF has happened to the world that we have to provide "positive feedback" for people doing what they are supposed to? Why should anyone get positive feedback for simply doing what is expected in a normal business transaction? I don't kiss anyone's ass when I go to the convenience store, grocery store, or anywhere else.

 

The feedback system isn't meant to be about "kissing anyone's ass", but about giving information to other buyers/sellers that this person is trustworthy and reliable -- since unlike real life, we have no social context from which to get that information. In the case of feedback given to a buyer, I suppose it means that they're not a complete pain in the ass or a scammer who tries to claim an item wasn't delivered.

 

I'll admit that the system is flawed, including the ridiculous "A++++++ GOOD EBAYER" grade inflation crap, and the star system that dings anyone if they get less than 5 stars. That said, if a seller does a particularly great job packing or is otherwise a pleasure to deal with, I'll happily say so in their comments (and would hope that's not construed as ass-kissing).

 

I've actually never negged anyone; I've only had two situations where I was tempted, and both were resolved with refunds. (There was a third, but despite terrible packaging the items were undamaged -- actually in great shape, surprisingly.) Then again I don't buy much on Ebay, and if I started doing a lot of it I'm sure the law of averages would catch up with me.

[OldSchoolRetroGamer]

The feedback system isn't meant to be about "kissing anyone's ass", but about giving information to other buyers/sellers that this person is trustworthy and reliable -- since unlike real life, we have no social context from which to get that information. In the case of feedback given to a buyer, I suppose it means that they're not a complete pain in the ass or a scammer who tries to claim an item wasn't delivered.

 

 

 

Pretty much what I was going to say, though good or positive feedback obviously benefits a seller when I leave positive feedback my ONLY reason for doing so is letting other potential buyers know that if they decide to purchase from this person they will not be disappointed. OF COURSE if I feel the person went about and beyond (super fast shipping, great price, awesome packaging, great communication etc) I will expand on that but yeah even if the transaction goes exactly as I hoped and expect I will immediately leave positive feedback, again, for other buyers. I myself only buy from those with a proven selling history that has had not only several transactions but at least say 98% positive feedback to match and I appreciate that other buyers have "bothered" to leave the feedback that gave the seller those ratings I look for.

Edited July 30, 2012 by OldSchoolRetroGamer

[bojay1997]

Personally, I take the position of many others in this thread in that I leave feedback only if someone does something really well (excellent packing, item even better than pictured or described, etc...). On the other hand, if someone does something really terrible (mostly shipping soft items in bubble pouches but still charging 3-5X actual postage), I leave negative feedback. I just don't have the time and interest to leave feedback for average transactions where everything goes ok, but nothing extraordinary has happened. Frankly, I find most feedback useless as I have dealt with some absolutely horrible sellers who have had perfect feedback and ratings. People aren't willing to be honest, so I am only willing to provide warnings or praise that I think would actually help others buyers.

[akator]

WTF has happened to the world that we have to provide "positive feedback" for people doing what they are supposed to? Why should anyone get positive feedback for simply doing what is expected in a normal business transaction? I don't kiss anyone's ass when I go to the convenience store, grocery store, or anywhere else.

 

The feedback system isn't meant to be about "kissing anyone's ass", but about giving information to other buyers/sellers that this person is trustworthy and reliable -- since unlike real life, we have no social context from which to get that information. In the case of feedback given to a buyer, I suppose it means that they're not a complete pain in the ass or a scammer who tries to claim an item wasn't delivered.

 

Yes... we know what the feedback system was supposed to accomplish, but it hasn't.

 

An automatic system (as Ax already hinted) that processes the % of successful sales (meaning no complaints) would be much better at accomplishing the goal of providing buyers info about trustworthy sellers.

[boxpressed]

An automatic system (as Ax already hinted) that processes the % of successful sales (meaning no complaints) would be much better at accomplishing the goal of providing buyers info about trustworthy sellers.

 

eBay has a policy like this already, but it is hidden from buyers. Only the seller and eBay know about it. It affects Top Rated Sellers only. TRS can have only so many cases opened against them in a given period. The number is actually very low, something like 3 (depending on volume). If the number of cases opened exceeds that number, the seller loses TRS status. That means the seller loses postage discounts and a 20% discount off Final Value Fees. This will hurt big sellers.

 

I recently bought something off eBay from a high-volume seller, and I received a different item. I told them that I wanted the item I paid for. They said that they could not do that, giving some excuse about not being able to reopen a closed order. I told them that I was going to open a case. I received an immediate refund, and the seller said that I could keep the wrongly-sent item. (I would have much rather received the original item and will probably throw away the wrongly-sent item.)

 

I think eBay is implementing changes for the fall that will make it more difficult for buyers to open cases. I wrote an article about TRS status for my blog, linked in my signature.

Edited July 30, 2012 by boxpressed

[+thegoldenband]

Yes... we know what the feedback system was supposed to accomplish, but it hasn't.

 

An automatic system (as Ax already hinted) that processes the % of successful sales (meaning no complaints) would be much better at accomplishing the goal of providing buyers info about trustworthy sellers.

 

Eh, maybe. But I prefer having qualitative information (written comments) alongside quantitative information. There's a lot to be read between the lines of what people say. Sometimes negative feedback can actually be encouraging, typically because the buyer is being a schmuck and the selller is handling it in a reasonable/sane way.

 

Either way, there's a world of difference between saying that the feedback system isn't working well (which is certainly a defensible position), vs. what you said in your second paragraph which seemed to suggest that it was part and parcel of everything that's wrong with the world. I think it's a perfectly reasonable system (at least in theory), since it essentially does what people do anyway: if I like a restaurant, I tell my friends about it; if a small-town store has a customer who's been loyal for 20 years and always pays his bills on time, then the store owner might vouch for him to a mutual acquaintance. It's not so different from the feedback threads we have here on Atariage, no?

[the.golden.ax]

Yes... we know what the feedback system was supposed to accomplish, but it hasn't.

 

An automatic system (as Ax already hinted) that processes the % of successful sales (meaning no complaints) would be much better at accomplishing the goal of providing buyers info about trustworthy sellers.

 

Eh, maybe. But I prefer having qualitative information (written comments) alongside quantitative information. There's a lot to be read between the lines of what people say. Sometimes negative feedback can actually be encouraging, typically because the buyer is being a schmuck and the selller is handling it in a reasonable/sane way.

 

Either way, there's a world of difference between saying that the feedback system isn't working well (which is certainly a defensible position), vs. what you said in your second paragraph which seemed to suggest that it was part and parcel of everything that's wrong with the world. I think it's a perfectly reasonable system (at least in theory), since it essentially does what people do anyway: if I like a restaurant, I tell my friends about it; if a small-town store has a customer who's been loyal for 20 years and always pays his bills on time, then the store owner might vouch for him to a mutual acquaintance. It's not so different from the feedback threads we have here on Atariage, no?

 

Nothing wrong with personalized feedback comments. You see those kinds of "what customers are saying" quotes on websites and magazine ads. Testimonials have been a advertising staple for years. In the interest of online feedback in general though, beyond what people want to say, there should be a clearly visible number of transactions versus problems. Buyers don't know if someone is willing to resolve issues. They may assume no one would help them and let an issue go, or just leave a negative (it happens). They may assume someone is a casual seller or a larger seller. For example, I buy way more than I sell on eBay. Really I have a "buyers" account and happen to sell my extras a bit. People see 4000+ feedback and think I'm a big time seller... in fact these days I can give very personalized service. If you have a problem you are going to get a real person logically communicating back. If you need it by a certain date, packed a certain way, I could do that. Someone else with 4000+ may not have the time because they just flood eBay with drop shipped items and are too busy.

[akator]

Either way, there's a world of difference between saying that the feedback system isn't working well (which is certainly a defensible position), vs. what you said in your second paragraph which seemed to suggest that it was part and parcel of everything that's wrong with the world. I think it's a perfectly reasonable system (at least in theory), since it essentially does what people do anyway: if I like a restaurant, I tell my friends about it; if a small-town store has a customer who's been loyal for 20 years and always pays his bills on time, then the store owner might vouch for him to a mutual acquaintance. It's not so different from the feedback threads we have here on Atariage, no?

 

Remember, I also clearly pointed out that I was playing devil's advocate, meaning I was taking an extreme stance for the point of debate.

 

That said, comparing the Atari Age system to eBay or Amazon is a strange point to make. The Atari Age system is in place because this is a forum based online system and not directly setup for the specific intent of sales. Obviously, the user feedback threads on Atari Age are mostly effective, informing a non-sales-based community using a non-sales-based interface, and in this case nothing needs to be changed.

 

In contrast, eBay is specifically setup for sales. They charge fees, both coming and going. They make billions of dollars a year. They should be able to create a more effective system than the current feedback model.

 

I don't think anyone suggested the problem was people being able to leave positive and negative public feedback, but that is currently the only method of ranking when there are much more reliable and effective methods available to determine seller performance. Every week I receive pandering emails from sellers on both Amazon and eBay soliciting positive feedback, something that I shouldn't be required to do to "help our business grow." Positive feedback should be earned and not assumed, and most of the sellers emailing me were average at best. But... because the feedback system is broken, I receive these junk emails...

[+thegoldenband]

I understand where you're coming from, and certainly agree that it's tacky (at best) for sellers to send emails demanding positive feedback. It's possible that there are "much more reliable and effective methods available to determine seller performance", and I'd be interested in seeing them in practice, though I suspect any system can be gamed.

 

OTOH, I think the idea that "positive feedback should be earned and not assumed" is highly dependent on the context in which it's operating. Obviously that's the case on AA and similar forums -- and contrariwise, I hate it when a Verizon rep asks me "Have I provided outstanding service?" and tries to forcefully elicit effusive praise. But for better or worse, Ebay's design clearly intends for all buyers to leave positive feedback for an acceptable transaction (didn't they push harder for this in the past?).

 

So talking about real-world conceptions of how positive feedback "should" operate is misplaced, IMHO: it's the system that Ebay has set up, so it's what we have to work with. And if there's something distasteful about it, I don't think it comes from the "Everybody gets an A!" mentality so much as the corporate tendency to make all evaluations quantitative, and to treat anything short of 100% perfection as grounds for penalty/punishment. If everything's a number, then the only question is how to game the system to get your numbers to be as good as possible, while doing so as cheaply as possible.

[labrat]

Personally, I was turned off to the idea of leaving feedback after seeing one too many posts in these forums from stalkers using them to keep track of who bought what, when, and for how much.

 

I'm not an overly paranoid person, and I know that this info is probably not very secure even in the absence of feedback. I just find it creepy. Really Creepy.

[jetset]

I do mostly buying, and if a seller does the right thing and leaves me feedback once they've gotten my money then they get feedback from me. If they insist on me giving *them* feedback first, they can scratch themselves where the sun don't shine. The "want to make sure you are happy with the item" bs is, well..bs. If the seller is concerned whether or not I got the item and am happy, all it takes is about twelve seconds to drop an email "Hi, just checking in to see if the item arrived safely and you are happy with it".

Generally, sellers tend to do the right thing and not play games since ebay fixed the feedback system so sellers can't use the feedback as hostage anymore. The ones that don't and can't be bothered to give what essentially boils down to a simple "thank you" do not get my business again.

The few times I sell anymore I leave feedback the minute I get paid. It's just common courtesy, and if they're going to try and pull some scam, having not left feedback will not stop that. Pretty stupid to think otherwise.

[the.golden.ax]

I do mostly buying, and if a seller does the right thing and leaves me feedback once they've gotten my money then they get feedback from me. If they insist on me giving *them* feedback first, they can scratch themselves where the sun don't shine. The "want to make sure you are happy with the item" bs is, well..bs. If the seller is concerned whether or not I got the item and am happy, all it takes is about twelve seconds to drop an email "Hi, just checking in to see if the item arrived safely and you are happy with it".

Generally, sellers tend to do the right thing and not play games since ebay fixed the feedback system so sellers can't use the feedback as hostage anymore. The ones that don't and can't be bothered to give what essentially boils down to a simple "thank you" do not get my business again.

The few times I sell anymore I leave feedback the minute I get paid. It's just common courtesy, and if they're going to try and pull some scam, having not left feedback will not stop that. Pretty stupid to think otherwise.

 

Not so much these days, but when I did sell allot I used an automated bot to do instant positive for those that left me one. I've been out of touch on the automated stuff for a few years but I'm sure they have them now for just leaving them for all sales since the negs are gone.

[boxpressed]

Personally, I was turned off to the idea of leaving feedback after seeing one too many posts in these forums from stalkers using them to keep track of who bought what, when, and for how much.

 

I'm not an overly paranoid person, and I know that this info is probably not very secure even in the absence of feedback. I just find it creepy. Really Creepy.

 

Yep, if the seller leaves you feedback, your purchase history is like an open book for the public to see--at least for 90 days. It wouldn't surprise me if eBay feedback mining were part of Divorce Law 101. I'm a little surprised that eBay hasn't been hit by a privacy lawsuit, but I imagine that's one of the rights you waive when you join.

[the.golden.ax]

Personally, I was turned off to the idea of leaving feedback after seeing one too many posts in these forums from stalkers using them to keep track of who bought what, when, and for how much.

 

I'm not an overly paranoid person, and I know that this info is probably not very secure even in the absence of feedback. I just find it creepy. Really Creepy.

 

Yep, if the seller leaves you feedback, your purchase history is like an open book for the public to see--at least for 90 days. It wouldn't surprise me if eBay feedback mining were part of Divorce Law 101. I'm a little surprised that eBay hasn't been hit by a privacy lawsuit, but I imagine that's one of the rights you waive when you join.

 

IIRC in Germany they already blocked it due to privacy.

[nopaybob]

Personally, I was turned off to the idea of leaving feedback after seeing one too many posts in these forums from stalkers using them to keep track of who bought what, when, and for how much.

 

I'm not an overly paranoid person, and I know that this info is probably not very secure even in the absence of feedback. I just find it creepy. Really Creepy.

 

What I find creepy here on AA is that my profile has 1,814 views , imho feedback on epay is worthless and I never use it to sway whether I buy or not as long as I'm buyer protected idgaf, i'm covered!

[+frankodragon]

I just leave a simple "Thank you" when I get the items from eBay. Usually nothing more. I had one guy send me an e-mail pestering me to leave feedback- so I left one to satisfy that big baby. Next time I'll just play like the mail went to the "spam" folder. Just curious if there are any sellers that demand you leave feedback just as you paid for the item?

[Mxyzptlk]

Personally, I was turned off to the idea of leaving feedback after seeing one too many posts in these forums from stalkers using them to keep track of who bought what, when, and for how much.

 

I'm not an overly paranoid person, and I know that this info is probably not very secure even in the absence of feedback. I just find it creepy. Really Creepy.

 

What I find creepy here on AA is that my profile has 1,814 views , imho feedback on epay is worthless and I never use it to sway whether I buy or not as long as I'm buyer protected idgaf, i'm covered!

I don't think that means your profile has been looked at by members that many times, I think it is how many times you came on the site or looked @ your own profile. I might be wrong, but the people that visit your profile are listed on the right of your profile and I know for a fact that I have not had 4000 plus different looks on my profile. It even shows when mods. look @ your profile. So don't be creeped out.