icemanxp300 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 I think most people believe that if you backdoor a seller, that it is fair game to backdoor you. I mean you don't let someone rob a convenient store and not give a description of the suspect, right? You backdoor the thief. Dude what? How is it possible to backdoor a seller? You mean if someone was selling something for a higher price then someone told the buyer to buy it from another seller for a lower price. I guess that would be backdooring a seller. Anyhow, back to the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icemanxp300 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) The true def. of being backdoored is say you won an auction for $50 and the auction was a hell of a deal via misrepresented auction or a low bin where someone didn't know what they were selling. Then someone emails seller and offers more, seller then cancels transaction and sells to higher buyer. Is it fair that because seller didn't do the research that you shouldn't get what you paid for? Same scenario here seller had an item for sale. Was offered an amount for said items and before seller sent, seller was contacted by an outside party and forfeited on the transaction. It's bad on the part of the seller and the person who interrupted the sale. Edited August 30, 2012 by icemanxp300 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Winning an auction with a final bid or a BIN, is very different. And in that case I would agree, this happened to me many times. You just don't want to get it, because it was probably you, who tried to pull a fast one on this seller. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against side-deals, but when you do, you have to live with the possibility of getting busted. That's all. Too bad this box is so squished, I bet it will still go for quite a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grig Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Hmmm ... I've read and reread and reread the thread so I hope I understand correctly. It is very interesting. Lots of good points here. My question is: WHY did kennybrooks email the seller to tell them about the game? He doesn't say it in his post, just that he emailed the seller to tell them about their 'gem' and that it was worth a decent amount and the seller relisted the game by itself. Makes me wonder why (I actually am curious why - not a rhetorical question). Kind of wondering if it was for his benefit or someone else's, or possibly a nefarious reason. I'm more in agreement with iceman and marillion. You can end an ebay listing for any one of four reasons that ebay allows. One of them is "The item is no longer for sale" I think. Anyway, isn't that up to the seller to interpret that? Isn't that the seller's prerogative? Ebay does not send follow up questions when you end your listing early to see if you have adhered to what they think guidelines should be, even if you have to cancel some bids to end the item early (I've had to do that once or twice in my 13 years of selling on ebay due to an item breaking or being totally destroyed by the dog). If I were the seller and I agreed to end the listing early for a side deal I would honor that, no matter what. More money is not worth it if it means that I do not make my word my bond. As a seller I have never side dealt on ebay and always say 'no' when I am asked - but when I am a buyer and something ends early without my ability to purchase the item I am not angered or disappointed or frustrated to the point that I email the seller to tell them what their item is really worth. Apparently some people do but that's not for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icemanxp300 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Winning an auction with a final bid or a BIN, is very different. And in that case I would agree, this happened to me many times. You just don't want to get it, because it was probably you, who tried to pull a fast one on this seller. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against side-deals, but when you do, you have to live with the possibility of getting busted. That's all. Too bad this box is so squished, I bet it will still go for quite a bit. First off it wasn't me. I don't scour ebay like that and look for deals that way. Thats not too say I wouldn't. I most certainly would if I stumbled across an item and was able to get a sweet deal on it. Secondly I understand the situation is a bit different BUT the principles are the same. You may not agree thats fine. Like jtoubeaux has mentioned above once a seller makes a deal they shouldn't back out of it. I did have my questions regarding why kenny emailed him as well, I just didn't say anything. I will say it is my assumption (I could be wrong) that he was probably trying to backdoor the potential (side deal) buyer on cannon man alone and seller finally researched what he/she had and then declined to make either trade and then listed the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Some people do it, because they need the item as well and want a fair chance at winning it, in an auction. Maybe that is why he did it? I know for damn sure, that if I saw a side deal of a CIB Spike's Peak fast enough, I would contact the seller and show him a link to my wanted thread. To each his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icemanxp300 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I understand what you are saying now CPUWIZ (sometimes things take awhile for me to fully grasp what people are talking about) and in this scenario it kinda makes sense, since the seller ended item early and it had no bids. In that sense may the best side deal win. So I guess I will change my opinion on this a bit. However if seller had already agreed to a side deal beforehand, then I wouldn't approve. It's a gray area and you can't know what the seller has already agreed to so I guess go at it. If it was a completed listing that someone won via a BIN or what not. I would not be ok w/someone contacting seller and interfering w/the transaction at all, regardless if they sold an air raid for $10 or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 If you go look, you can see, there are 4 people who want this (not including the sniper crowd). Now they have the chance to hit each other over the head with money, he who wants it most, wins and the seller is happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grig Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Thanks to both CPU & Iceman for great input. Like I said - good points all around. I'm always eager to find out other opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schizophretard Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 My backdoor is an exit only. Then explain why your avatar is inhaling a cigar through it's backdoor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schizophretard Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 LOL dude what does it matter? What does that have to do with anything? This is about a guy backdooring a potential sale. Whether the sale is on ebays rightful terms has nothing to do with it. The guy killed a potential "good deal" for someone, thats what the discussion is about now. Man you guys love to take topics and sway them to compeltely different topics. He backdoored. It is frowned upon by many "not just me". Whether he was backdooring a sale that wasn't in ebays terms means nothing. The buyer as well as the seller were making a transaction that was interrupted and as a result the buyer no longer got the deal he was otherwise going to get. When marillion decided not to play fair by not following eBay's rightful terms he killed a potential good deal for roadrunner and everyone else that found the CIB Cannon Man. roadrunner was playing by the rules. He could have placed a bid to make it more complicated for marillion and other side dealers but the bid might draw more attention to the auction. I have used the same strategy. Sometimes it works and sometimes a side dealer plays unfair. roadrunner and everyone else got screwed out of a potential good deal for doing what? Playing by the rules. marillion tried to get a good deal by doing what? Not playing by the rules. What did kennybrooks do? He set things right by undoing what marillion shouldn't have done. I don't see how that is poor in character. When I saw your poor in character post I thought maybe you quoted the wrong person because it is the complete opposite of what I was thinking. When people don't play by the rules it forces us who do play by the rules to choose between getting screwed or also not playing by the rules. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schizophretard Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 once a seller makes a deal they shouldn't back out of it. What about the deal the seller and the side dealer has with eBay? Would they be showing poor character by backing out of that deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari_Bill Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 LOL dude what does it matter? What does that have to do with anything? This is about a guy backdooring a potential sale. Whether the sale is on ebays rightful terms has nothing to do with it. The guy killed a potential "good deal" for someone, thats what the discussion is about now. Man you guys love to take topics and sway them to compeltely different topics. He backdoored. It is frowned upon by many "not just me". Whether he was backdooring a sale that wasn't in ebays terms means nothing. The buyer as well as the seller were making a transaction that was interrupted and as a result the buyer no longer got the deal he was otherwise going to get. When marillion decided not to play fair by not following eBay's rightful terms he killed a potential good deal for roadrunner and everyone else that found the CIB Cannon Man. roadrunner was playing by the rules. He could have placed a bid to make it more complicated for marillion and other side dealers but the bid might draw more attention to the auction. I have used the same strategy. Sometimes it works and sometimes a side dealer plays unfair. roadrunner and everyone else got screwed out of a potential good deal for doing what? Playing by the rules. marillion tried to get a good deal by doing what? Not playing by the rules. What did kennybrooks do? He set things right by undoing what marillion shouldn't have done. I don't see how that is poor in character. When I saw your poor in character post I thought maybe you quoted the wrong person because it is the complete opposite of what I was thinking. When people don't play by the rules it forces us who do play by the rules to choose between getting screwed or also not playing by the rules. A big like on this post! I don't agree with a lot of the rules ebay has in place, but they are the rules and can't stand when people think they can ignore them for their own gain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icemanxp300 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 First off until you see the email kenny sent, you have no idea what his intentions were. Secondly prove that "whomever" you say marillion, I'll take your word for it I guess. Prove they were trying to conduct an outside sale of ebay. Now to answer a previous question which directly relates to this topic. I just called ebay and asked "If you have a an auction style listing and are contacted by a member asking if you will sell the current auction at a Higher BIN price is it within ebays terms to end that listing early while you consider relisting at the higher BIN? I ask this because under policy is says you are only allowed to end a listing and sell at Current price." She replied: "Yes that is allowed the reason you ended the listing would be because there is an error in the listing price, you can relist at the correct price you wish to sell item at." Therfore unless we see emails we don't know what was being said. Playing this guessing game is not going to get us anywhere. Therefore it is quite possible the side deal was working it's way through a legitimate ebay sale abiding by all rules set forth by ebay. AssUMe they are trying to conduct an illegal sale is why this thread is 2 pages in now repeating itself over and over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schizophretard Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 First off until you see the email kenny sent, you have no idea what his intentions were. Secondly prove that "whomever" you say marillion, I'll take your word for it I guess. Prove they were trying to conduct an outside sale of ebay. Now to answer a previous question which directly relates to this topic. I just called ebay and asked "If you have a an auction style listing and are contacted by a member asking if you will sell the current auction at a Higher BIN price is it within ebays terms to end that listing early while you consider relisting at the higher BIN? I ask this because under policy is says you are only allowed to end a listing and sell at Current price." She replied: "Yes that is allowed the reason you ended the listing would be because there is an error in the listing price, you can relist at the correct price you wish to sell item at." Therfore unless we see emails we don't know what was being said. Playing this guessing game is not going to get us anywhere. Therefore it is quite possible the side deal was working it's way through a legitimate ebay sale abiding by all rules set forth by ebay. AssUMe they are trying to conduct an illegal sale is why this thread is 2 pages in now repeating itself over and over. If I have to look at kennybrooks's personal email to know his true intentions then you have to do the same to know it was an act of poor character. I can just go by his post. In his post he said it was because he thought it was a side deal and then marillion confirmed it by admitting it was a side deal. Call her back and ask her specifically where this is in the policies and how an error in the listing price can be defined as not being the same price as a future side dealer's offer instead of accidentally typing $9.99 when you meant to type $99.99. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icemanxp300 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I understand what you are saying now CPUWIZ (sometimes things take awhile for me to fully grasp what people are talking about) and in this scenario it kinda makes sense, since the seller ended item early and it had no bids. In that sense may the best side deal win. So I guess I will change my opinion on this a bit. However if seller had already agreed to a side deal beforehand, then I wouldn't approve. It's a gray area and you can't know what the seller has already agreed to so I guess go at it. If it was a completed listing that someone won via a BIN or what not. I would not be ok w/someone contacting seller and interfering w/the transaction at all, regardless if they sold an air raid for $10 or not. Wow man. AGREEEEEEEED. Yes I know I would have to look at his personal email. I have already stated above I have changed my opinion on this topic slighty. What more do you want????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
videopac Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Why someone not interested in the item (to buy) would contact a seller just to inform that the item is rare or whatever... that I can't understand. If the item is mislisted and you find it and you are interested in it I would assume that you would bid in the auction. If you are not interested in bidding then why not just let it be? I once found a mislisted Apple I (yes!) in a lot with used PC parts, clearly the seller had no idea what he was selling and the description was vague. I kept a low profile and waited to attack with a nice bid at the end of the auction BUT someone, who was not interested in bidding, contacted the seller and told him that he probably had an Apple I. Well, the guy added info to his auction and more people found the auction. It ended up at $2500 and I had only $800 to bid. I like to think that if the seller hadn't been contacted I would have had a chance to win it. In another auction the seller had a picture up with a lot of interesting stuff, Atari 2600 items, but no real good description. The seller had just a few (or zero, can't remember) feedbacks and that seemed to scare bidders off. I won the lot and was very happy. The seller was going to check shipping and then never got back. I contacted him several times without success. I am quite sure that he was contacted by someone who bought the stuff at a higer price. IF that was what happened then the guy contacting the seller really is a lowlife So, what I am trying to say is that I really don't get why people contact a seller just to mess things up for the bidder. It is beyond me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marillion Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Why someone not interested in the item (to buy) would contact a seller just to inform that the item is rare or whatever... that I can't understand. If the item is mislisted and you find it and you are interested in it I would assume that you would bid in the auction. If you are not interested in bidding then why not just let it be? This was the point I was trying to make about roadrunner...this is all he seems to want to do is call attention to rarities within auction lots. I happen to think that's crap. Everyone wants to get a great deal on things. Why spoil it just for the sake of spoiling it? Peace, Chip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schizophretard Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Why someone not interested in the item (to buy) would contact a seller just to inform that the item is rare or whatever... that I can't understand. If the item is mislisted and you find it and you are interested in it I would assume that you would bid in the auction. If you are not interested in bidding then why not just let it be? This was the point I was trying to make about roadrunner...this is all he seems to want to do is call attention to rarities within auction lots. I happen to think that's crap. Everyone wants to get a great deal on things. Why spoil it just for the sake of spoiling it? Peace, Chip In this case, he was just spoiling a side deal though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schizophretard Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Why someone not interested in the item (to buy) would contact a seller just to inform that the item is rare or whatever... that I can't understand. If the item is mislisted and you find it and you are interested in it I would assume that you would bid in the auction. If you are not interested in bidding then why not just let it be? There have been times that I have contacted a seller but not with the intent to mess things up for bidders but with the intent to help the seller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
videopac Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 There have been times that I have contacted a seller but not with the intent to mess things up for bidders but with the intent to help the seller. Well, that is what happens... the bidder loses out but the seller get someone else to do his homework... why is it that you feel that the seller is the one to help? I get it that the intent is well meant but, really, why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxpressed Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 There's a lot of nonsense on eBay started by seemingly pathological collectors. I see a lot of potentially rare items that have an opening price of, say $20, and a BIN of $25. Someone will bid $20. Dollars to donuts that some collector just wants to find out how much his or her copy of the same thing is worth and messes up a low BIN for another collector in need. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marillion Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 In this case, he was just spoiling a side deal though. ...but why spoil anything at all? Why come in here and announce every rarity hidden in every lot that comes up on eBay? I had the largest Super Powers collection in the world a few years ago because I did whatever I could do get pieces that came up for sale. If the sellers wanted to sell to me outright, they did. It doesn't make any sense to spoil other people's collecting for no reason at all. Peace, Chip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 ...but why spoil anything at all? My possible explanation was not good enough for you, or do you selectively read stuff in threads (like many people do)? What if I wanted that Cannon Man, had it on my watch list, for a snipe, only to have the listing ended early and me losing the chance to even make a move on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marillion Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 If you really wanted it, why not contact the seller with an offer to end the auction as soon as you saw the auction? Peace, Chip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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