easy to use software for PCB layout and manufacturing

[+grips03]

easy to use software for PCB layout and manufacturing?

 

any for Mac OSX or is Windows a better option?

 

thanks

[jaybird3rd]

You may already be familiar with it, but I'd highly recommend Eagle. It's very easy to use, and it's available for Mac, Windows, and Linux.

[Game-Tech.US]

I too use Eagle. It wasn't super hard to learn, but there's some things I don't like about too.

Creating parts that weren't in the library was hard to learn and I usually have to relearn it every other time I need to do it.

I tried KiCAD and Altium when I first started to learn to use such software, but since I was such a newb then I won't comment.

Dave at the eevblog did a first timer

of DIPTrace and I thought it looked really nice and plan to try it out some day.

He also has an 8 video

of pcb design, fab, assembly stuff.

Not sure which one has the best support, but I recently had problems with Eagle and the only place I got any response was the eevblog forum, the 'official' eagle forum yielded ZERO responses. The eevblog forum has sections for most all the popular wares and even general sections where ppl can ask about anything about pcbs from software to fabs to assembly service, but its still pretty sparse on info.

If you're in the US I suggest OSHPark for doing prototype boards, $5 per sq in, but you get 3 copies of the board. Used to be the Dorkbot pcb group buy service, but the new page is called osh (open source hardware?) and it super easy to submit a board.

Edited September 3, 2012 by akaviolence

[+grips03]

thanks for the info. I downloaded eagle, but could not figure it out. Perhaps time to read the manual or watch a tutorial video.

[Van]

Yea, Eagle is the best bet just because it seems like everyone uses it. The size limit is a little constraining, but I guess if I really need to build a large PCB I could upgrade.Just rather spent money on hardware, not softs.

I've used FreePCB, but there was no Sch capture, just PCB routing (it was a WIP several years ago). you can import net lists So if you do your Sch in Eagle and import the net to FreePCB you could avoid the limits; but what a painl!

[+grips03]

I'm getting better at Eagle now. OSHPark seems like the way to go to. for three 3x3 inch boards its ~$50, $25 less than pad2pad for the same thing. How many boards are needed to get prices down?

 

Also do guys use the auto-router? So far seems like it causes as many issues as it fixes.

[Game-Tech.US]

I used the auto router a lot in the beginning, but almost never use it now, it really does create more issues that it should!

I think there is an online one that is supposed to be really good, but i've not really made any boards that were so large I couldn't tackle it manually, so i've never tried it and can't remember what it's called...

[+grips03]

I ordered my board today from OSHPark. I had some issues with:

 

1) Adding the silkscreen, Silkscreen is not a layer in Eagle light. I wanted to add rev # and design by.

 

2) Remove the values and symbols for component, like a diode or cap. I figure D1 or C2 should be enough.

 

Also how long do they take to ship once its ordered?

 

thanks

Edited March 4, 2013 by grips03

[Game-Tech.US]

There are several layers that are silkscreen, 20-28, stuff like t & b-names as well as t & b-values.

Be sure to check that the layers you want to get added to the Gerbs are checked when you do the CAM.

My first order was missing all component values and diode cathode band markers because tvalues and other layers were not checked.

It seems to take right at 3 weeks for proto orders to arrive after they've been sent to the fab, medium run stuff can take a bit longer since they are not sent it as often.

[honestbob]

Hi All

 

I got into PCB design a couple of years back when building a multicart for the Sega SC-3000. I have designed and produced 4 or 5 PCBs now, all for games carts for the SC-3000. So we are talking fairly small PCBs (say approx 3" x 4"), with DIP / through hole components. So not a lot of experience, but I think enough to give some useful advice to someone new to PCB design.

 

I have used two PCB packages - ExpressPCB and Eagle.

 

I started with ExpressPCB

 

http://www.expresspcb.com/

 

I looked at a lot of free packages, and ExpressPCB is by far the easiest software I found to get into and learn how to build a PCB. The interfaces for most PCB design software are confusing. Some of that is due to complexity / lots of features, but I think a lot of it is down to poor interface design. ExpressPCB works a lot more like you expect a consumer level drawing program to work. They have some good hints and tips on their website about how to design a simple PCB in terms of the basic spacing and layout. And it is easy to build your own custom components (which you have to do, as the component library is relatively small so you are bound to need something that isn't in there).

 

http://www.expresspcb.com/ExpressPCBHtm/Tips.htm

 

Basically it was simple enough for me to build my first multicart board and get it manufactured, which was important. Gerber files are a scary sounding thing for a newbie. With ExpressPCB you don't have to worry about generating gerber files correctly because you can't. And that is the catch, of course. This is a proprietary solution. The ExpressPCB software is designed so that you can automatically submit your designs to ExpressPCB. They will give you an instant online quote, and you can choose a prototype service (no soldermask / silkscreen), or a full production board solution up to 4 layers.

 

http://www.expresspcb.com/ExpressPCBHtm/Specs.htm

 

Shipping is pretty expensive if you live outside the US, and the prices are expensive compared to a Chinese manufacturer. But if you are looking for a convenient way to easily knock up prototypes and live in the US, then

 

There is another option too. You can submit your ExpressPCB designs to Futurlec and they will produce it at a much more reasonable cost.

 

http://www.futurlec.com/PCBService.shtml

 

Futurlec did two runs of the multicart for me, and they did a nice job. I think they are in Thailand though, and I had to chase them a bit around finalizing both orders. It really seemed to depend on which person I dealt with on each shift as to how good the communication was. Some had excellent written English, and others less so. Futurlec send you a pdf proof of your design and the hole sizes / drill positions etc. for you to approve before commencing production. It took about 6 weeks both times from placing the order until the PCBs arrived.

 

So I can recommend ExpressPCB and their prototype service for newbies who just want to try a bit of PCB design and prototyping without having to learn about generating gerber files, and for those for who the convenience of the instant ordering and shipping and fast turnaround outweighs the higher cost and lack of alternative manufacturers. And provided you are willing to chase them a bit, I can also recommend Futurlec for use with ExpressPCB.

 

Note - I *believe* that ExpressPCB will convert your design to gerber files for a fee if you contact them directly. I have read that on several forums, although I haven't tried that myself. So that would provide you with an option to shift from prototype design to mass production.

 

 

 

Since then, I've moved on to Eagle.

 

http://www.cadsoftusa.com/eagle-pcb-design-software/?language=en

 

Eagle is pretty much the standard go-to tool for 'free' PCB design. Note that it isn't actually free for commercial use. Read all the licensing pages to see what you can and can't legally do with it. But in general there is a 'free' version that lets you do something like a 10cm by 10cm PCB with up to two layers, which is enough for a lot of hobby uses. There is also a reasonably priced student version that gives you a bigger build area.

 

Eagle is widely used, very flexible, has an auto-router, and lets you generate proper Gerber files so you can choose any PCB manufacturer you like. It comes with a large library set of components and it is common for third parties to publish their own Eagle component libraries (like Sparkfun).

 

However, it has a steep initial learning curve, and a user interface design sent straight from the bowels of Hell, although that seems standard for most PCB CAD packages It is worth investing the time to learn it, but you will probably bang your head on the wall a number of times. The parts libraries are hard to figure out at first, and a lot of even the standard components don't line up correctly on the snap grids, so you will curse and swear and eventually modify your own components that fit the way you design PCBs. But in general you can find a pre-built component for just about anything, or at least something that provides a good start point to modify.

 

YouTube is your friend for learning to use Eagle. The very first thing you should do is to watch something like this EagleCAD tutorial series by rpcelectronics. Here is lesson 1 (I think this is the series I watched).

 

 

Once you have got your head around the Eagle interface and built a PCB design, you will want to get into the black arts of Gerber generation. This is where you come to the next bit of the learning curve with Eagle. The Eagle back end runs little programming scripts which are gibberish to mere mortals, but can make Eagle do strange and wonderful things. So you find a how-to page like the following that has the necessary scripts and instructions for you:

 

http://hackaday.com/2009/01/15/how-to-prepare-your-eagle-designs-for-manufacture/

 

(scroll down this one looking for gerber)

http://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/109

 

And of course you can do neat things like convert bitmaps to put graphics on the silkscreen layer in Eagle

 

http://www.instructables.com/id/Adding-Custom-Graphics-to-EAGLE-PCB-Layouts/

 

And once you have generated your gerber files, you will need a gerber viewer like gerbv to inspect them for obvious errors.

 

http://gerbv.geda-project.org/

 

 

I hope all that is useful to someone out there looking to try a little hobby PCB design

 

Cheers

[+grips03]

great info

 

another place I've heard to try is batchpcb.com

 

The issue I had with the first run board I made is via under components, silkscreen not being what I exactly wanted. I printed the board anyway to check my circuit, but once the circuit checks out I plan to fix the PCB size, silkscreen layer, vias and whatever else I find. The reason I ended up with Eagle was due to the library of parts built in. Sometimes I wish they just listed component as sizes vs. the actual part. Eagle's native OSX support is nice too.

[honestbob]

another place I've heard to try is batchpcb.com

 

The place I've used for my last three boards is PCB Wing.

 

http://www.pcbwing.com

 

They have a prototype service where you get 4 PCBs for $50USD including free shipping worldwide.

 

The best thing about these guys is that they have an awesome online quoting and ordering system, so you can see exactly what the board manufacturing cost will be, and you can even include a pile of different options in the quote like different PCB colour, copper thickness, number of layers, double sided soldermask, surface finish type, gold fingers, beveled edges etc. in case you want to dream about making a cooler looking board

 

eg. say your PCB is around 73mm x 94mm. So go to

 

http://www.pcbwing.com/Order.php

 

Then ask for 50 boards with 2 copper layers, standard HAL Pb/Sn finish, 10 day build time, and a quote pops out for $55.21 tooling, $95.73 board cost = $150.94 (or $123.33 for a re-order).

 

If you want to change that to a Red soldermask PCB instead of Green then you can see the cost is now $180. Lots of fun In the end I stuck with the standard green soldermask, no gold fingers, and no beveled edges, but it was great to know what the cost would have been if I'd wanted those options.

 

You won't know shipping costs until you go to the next stage of the order process, but from memory it was something like $40USD to Fedex 100 games cart PCBs to New Zealand, and a similar amount for 50 multicart PCBs.

 

If you want to order, you just hit the Place Order button at the end of the quote. You then upload your gerbers in a zip file. Their system extracts the files from a zip, and gives you a screen which allows you to confirm which gerber file relates to which layer for manufacturing (ie. top copper, bottom copper, top solder mask, bottom solder mask, drill file, top silk screen, bottom silk screen, and any others you want to use).

 

They then run DRC checks on your gerbers, and if that is successful the design is passed to production.

 

I've been very impressed with them so far.

 

 

The issue I had with the first run board I made is via under components, silkscreen not being what I exactly wanted. I printed the board anyway to check my circuit, but once the circuit checks out I plan to fix the PCB size, silkscreen layer, vias and whatever else I find. The reason I ended up with Eagle was due to the library of parts built in. Sometimes I wish they just listed component as sizes vs. the actual part. Eagle's native OSX support is nice too.

 

Did your DRC checks in Eagle not pick up the via under component? It should have if it didn't clear the component pads sufficiently. I agree that printing the circuit board is a good idea as well as using the DRC and ERC checks. Figuring out the labelling on the Eagle component libraries sometimes requires the use of a Ouija board, I think

[Osgeld]

if your not in a rush ...

 

Itead studio

http://imall.iteadstudio.com/open-pcb/pcb-prototyping.html

 

10, 10x10 cm for less than 30 bucks

 

for the prices and quantities listed by my co-forumer above you can get 3 day turns in your hand by the end of the week from almost any proto house