7800 emulater

[rushguy]

What is the best and easier 7800 emulater out there?

[Trebor]

Short Answer: Prosystem emulator for most users would be considered best and easiest.

 

Long Answer: MESS has better TIA and POKEY sound emulation. However, it contains slight graphical glitches in some games not present under the ProSystem emulator. MESS contains a slew if configuration options, including multiple input/controller sources and excellent graphic options to simulate a CRT display. On the other hand, for some it can be less than intuitive to both configure and use.

 

My personal perference is MESS, but to each their own.

 

You can download Prosystem (Latest public release v1.3e) here: http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/124215-prosystem-emulator-update/page__st__125?do=findComment&comment=1766481

 

Last MESS version(s) (Currently 0.142u2) can be downloaded here: http://messui.the-chronicles.org/

 

For MESS users, I recently put these files and this post together: http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/204247-new-generated-ntsc-color-palette-files/page__st__25?do=findComment&comment=2629240

[rushguy]

Thank You so much I got the ProSystem emulator working it runs well, a little slow but not that bad,.

[NIKON]

I use the MESS 1.43 version and will run almost all 7800 games flawlessly..only production game that it has issue with is Xenophobe...flickers constantly...but it wont run all the homebrew games.. only some and will not run .bin 7800 games.. you need the .a78 files..and no true two button support...but you can configure any controller..for example..supports two controller configuration at the same time...think Robotron 2084 with two controllers...AWESOME!!!!

 

I also use the Pro System 1.3..will run anything I throw at it..but different display modes run slow on full screen mode..kinda limited user configurability...no true two button support.

 

I also use the EMU7800 which runs just about anything I throw at it.. plus is supports true two button support...for example..Xevious has independent fire and bomb buttons...same for Desert Falcon and Dark Chambers.

Only drawback to the EMU 7800 is that it is not configure friendly..written in C and requires .NET framework for Windows. Not sure if there is a MAC version or not.

[The Usotsuki]

I mainly use ProSystem, but for Robotron I use MESS and have a different stick setup. (I have a dual-stick pad, perfect for Robotron.)

[kb9snl]

I like EMU7800 also. It is a bit tricky to get it to load lesser known or homebrew ROMs though, as it wants to only load known ROMs by design. I'm sure if I studied on it a bit more, that wouldn't be an issue.

[Trebor]

I use the MESS 1.43 version and will run almost all 7800 games flawlessly..only production game that it has issue with is Xenophobe...flickers constantly...but it wont run all the homebrew games.. only some and will not run .bin 7800 games.. you need the .a78 files..and no true two button support

 

Hi NIKON,

 

Just want to clarify a few things in the above quote:

Minor thing...MESS version you are referencing is 0.143. There is no version 1.43; the latest being 0.147u2 and soon to be released 0.147u3. I cannot confirm or some of the issues you sited with 0.143 - It is well over a year old and I am unable to test it at this time.

 

However, more recent version runs all homebrew games that would work on an actual Atari 7800 without issue. Just ensure the game has a correct signed header and it should run fine. That is why it requires *.a78 files and not *.bin files; *.bin files contain no header information.

 

There is no other difference between *.bin and *.a78 games, besides one (*.bin) lacking a header.

 

True two button support is present and works great. Again, cannot confirm or deny with the older release (Although I do not recall that being an issue for quite a number of years now), regardless you may want to check the configuration of your difficulty switches. You can check their position by pressing the 'TAB' key once a game is loaded, then use the arrow keys to scroll down to 'Dip Switches'. Press ‘ENTER’ to see their current position and use the left and right arrow keys to change them as desired.

 

A few two button games will behave as if a one button controller is hooked up dependent on your difficult switch configuration.

 

On the negative side, Xenophobe is unfortunately not the only “production game” with issues. Kung Fu Master has really bad graphical issues. One-On-One Basketball clock ticks down too fast to the point of being unplayable.

 

There are then just minor issues: Centipede (Green line runs across top of box to ends of display), Pole Position and Fatal Run have slight "grass area" color mismatch with a few scanlines by the horizon. Commando's title screen has some minor graphical glitch issues where you change and select the game settings. There may be a couple of more games with very slight graphical problems.

 

So regarding “production” games, the worse is Kung-Fu Master and One-On-One Basketball. Xenophobe is significant with problems and a few other production games have very minor issues.

 

If you are referring to the recent Donkey Kong XM (aka Pokey Sound) as some/a homebrew that will not run, it is only running under ProSystem emulator due to that emulator allowing typically illegal read/writes to the POKEY address that would not work on a standard Atari 7800 system. MESS is more accurate in this regard. Any other homebrew that has been released publicly should work fine as long as the header is signed properly in *.a78 format containing correct information.

 

As some last notes, the color palette in MESS 0.147u2 is much more accurate than any earlier versions, and what will soon be a 0.147u3 release corrects a 3 degree miscalculation that very slightly changes the palette once more for the best base color values possible. MESS has HLSL graphical enhancement that simulates a CRT beautifully with features such as a curved display screen and additional controls to the standard options, including saturation and individual RGB manipulations on various levels and degrees. There are also scanlines options, shadow mask options, and blur level effects with color offset features. Also, the TIA and POKEY sound is some of the best and most accurate emulated.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Trebor

[Bones Brigade]

prosystem, hands down.

[NIKON]

Hi NIKON,

 

Just want to clarify a few things in the above quote:

Minor thing...MESS version you are referencing is 0.143. There is no version 1.43; the latest being 0.147u2 and soon to be released 0.147u3. I cannot confirm or some of the issues you sited with 0.143 - It is well over a year old and I am unable to test it at this time.

 

However, more recent version runs all homebrew games that would work on an actual Atari 7800 without issue. Just ensure the game has a correct signed header and it should run fine. That is why it requires *.a78 files and not *.bin files; *.bin files contain no header information.

 

There is no other difference between *.bin and *.a78 games, besides one (*.bin) lacking a header.

 

True two button support is present and works great. Again, cannot confirm or deny with the older release (Although I do not recall that being an issue for quite a number of years now), regardless you may want to check the configuration of your difficulty switches. You can check their position by pressing the 'TAB' key once a game is loaded, then use the arrow keys to scroll down to 'Dip Switches'. Press ‘ENTER’ to see their current position and use the left and right arrow keys to change them as desired.

 

A few two button games will behave as if a one button controller is hooked up dependent on your difficult switch configuration.

 

On the negative side, Xenophobe is unfortunately not the only “production game” with issues. Kung Fu Master has really bad graphical issues. One-On-One Basketball clock ticks down too fast to the point of being unplayable.

 

There are then just minor issues: Centipede (Green line runs across top of box to ends of display), Pole Position and Fatal Run have slight "grass area" color mismatch with a few scanlines by the horizon. Commando's title screen has some minor graphical glitch issues where you change and select the game settings. There may be a couple of more games with very slight graphical problems.

 

So regarding “production” games, the worse is Kung-Fu Master and One-On-One Basketball. Xenophobe is significant with problems and a few other production games have very minor issues.

 

If you are referring to the recent Donkey Kong XM (aka Pokey Sound) as some/a homebrew that will not run, it is only running under ProSystem emulator due to that emulator allowing typically illegal read/writes to the POKEY address that would not work on a standard Atari 7800 system. MESS is more accurate in this regard. Any other homebrew that has been released publicly should work fine as long as the header is signed properly in *.a78 format containing correct information.

 

As some last notes, the color palette in MESS 0.147u2 is much more accurate than any earlier versions, and what will soon be a 0.147u3 release corrects a 3 degree miscalculation that very slightly changes the palette once more for the best base color values possible. MESS has HLSL graphical enhancement that simulates a CRT beautifully with features such as a curved display screen and additional controls to the standard options, including saturation and individual RGB manipulations on various levels and degrees. There are also scanlines options, shadow mask options, and blur level effects with color offset features. Also, the TIA and POKEY sound is some of the best and most accurate emulated.

 

Mess version...it was a typo that I did not catch..

I know about the HLSL feature and I play around with it from time to time. But it seems to slow down the speed of the game slightly when engaged.

I will have to check out .147 version.

[ChuckH]

Trebor,

What you say about MESS is true. I can run most games fine except some of the newer homebrews and the ones that you mentioned. I am running .141 version. Planet Smashers is another game with graphic issues on the bottom when selecting the difficulty. One reason that I like MESS is that you can use the mouse on games like Centipede. I wish that I could use the mouse on Crazy Bricks but the game hangs on startup. Maybe it will run on later versions. I wish that you could use the mouse in ProSystem but it seems to be joystick or keyboard only.

I like ProSystem best, I guess, as it seems to run most anything. It will run Scramble, the new Donkey Kong, and others that MESS won't. I should get the newer version of MESS maybe.

Chuck

[Trebor]

I know about the HLSL feature and I play around with it from time to time. But it seems to slow down the speed of the game slightly when engaged.

 

The HLSL feature is purely graphic card dependent. It does require a (relatively) newer graphics card (Last ~3-5 years), and "onboard video" probably won't cut it onless you have something really decent on the motherboard.

[Trebor]

I wish that I could use the mouse on Crazy Bricks but the game hangs on startup. Maybe it will run on later versions. I wish that you could use the mouse in ProSystem but it seems to be joystick or keyboard only.

I like ProSystem best, I guess, as it seems to run most anything. It will run Scramble, the new Donkey Kong, and others that MESS won't. I should get the newer version of MESS maybe.

Chuck

 

If Crazy Brix hangs on start-up you may have an older copy or one that is not properly signed (Bad header signature). Ditto with Scramble. Or you may have the difficulty switches locked in the freeze/pause position (Play it safe and make sure both are set to "A" and not "B" per the instructions in my earlier post). Crazy Brix and Scramble run and play great under MESS.

 

People don't typically run into difficultly switch issues with ProSystem because they are not properly emulated. Instead of a toggle to either A or B - it is a switch (key) that needs to be held down.

 

Again, Donkey Kong Pokey/XM works due to an emulation flaw within ProSystem. It is allowing POKEY read/writes in places the actual hardware does not. MESS emulates the hardware POKEY read/writes more accurately and that is why Donkey Kong with POKEY Sounds/XM does not work. In ProSystem's defense however, there is a newer version which I believe emulates the XM and will be made public with the XM developer's kit after the XM is released (Per the last comments I've read on this topic).

 

If you know of any homebrew that does not work under MESS besides the updated Donkey Kong (due to the aforementioned reason), please let me know. Every homebrew I have runs fine with no issues and I know there are bad ROM dumps out there with incorrect signed headers. Also people may not be aware of the difficulty switch effects to some of the games that don't seem to work properly. They are working as programmed.

 

Screenshots for both Crazy Brix and Scramble running under MESS are below. I have also attached the working/good ROMs for them.

 

Crazy Brix (SP).zipScramble (SP).zip

 

[ChuckH]

Trebor,

Thanks for the reply. Well, you were right. I did not have the difficulty switches on to A. Both Scramble and Crazy Brix now work and they both work with the mouse so that it very nice. Games that still do not work in MESS (I think) are:

1. Bentley Bear(WIP) - the Bear sprite doesn't show up properly.

2. Pac-Jason - new Holloween themed PM clone.- doesn't boot up

If I come across something else I'll let you know.

Chuck

[NIKON]

The HLSL feature is purely graphic card dependent. It does require a (relatively) newer graphics card (Last ~3-5 years), and "onboard video" probably won't cut it onless you have something really decent on the motherboard.

 

I have an ATI Radeon 4350HD 512MB PCiE card..running into a Dell 2700 wide screen monitor.

[Trebor]

Trebor,

Thanks for the reply. Well, you were right. I did not have the difficulty switches on to A. Both Scramble and Crazy Brix now work and they both work with the mouse so that it very nice. Games that still do not work in MESS (I think) are:

1. Bentley Bear(WIP) - the Bear sprite doesn't show up properly.

2. Pac-Jason - new Holloween themed PM clone.- doesn't boot up

If I come across something else I'll let you know.

Chuck

 

Bentley Bear - You're using an older/outdated dump of the game. I actually reported that issue to Bob which was 2 or 3 revisions prior to the latest one available - It was a bug in the game that was fixed. The latest dump includes some TIA sound effects and a short melody when you complete a level. It is attached to this thread.

 

Pac-Jason - I reported this to the thread that the ROM was released in...The header is wrong on the *.a78 file - The bad dump of Scramble had the same problem. I have not had a chance to look at or try signing the *.bin file.

 

Bentley Bear - Crystal Quest (SP).zip

 

For the record, if you run a ROM/*.a78 file under MESS and it is cycle/looping at the BIOS screen it will usually mean the header is incorrect on the file.

 

It may be a moot point since Bob is taking a break from development, but part of the 'difficulty' issues people state they experienced with the game, specifically with this latest dump, I'm curious if it is due to playing it under the ProSystem emulator.

 

If you try this dump under the ProSystem emulator it relies on the difficulty switch settings in determining whether you have a two button or one button controller. The default under ProSystem has the game locked with one button controller (Pressing up makes Bentley Jump), but as a bug with the emulator setting, Bentley does not run at all.

 

Again as mentioned earlier, there are issues with the way ProSystem handles the difficulty A/B switch settings. To make the game work properly (Bentley is able to run), you have to set it to two button mode. Unfortunately with the ProSystem emulator it requires you to hold down the F5 or/and F6 key before the start of each level. If you only do it for the first level, once you begin the next level, the game is back to a one button controller and Bentley does not run again.

 

MESS does not have this issue, and emulates the difficulty switch A/B properly.

[Trebor]

I have an ATI Radeon 4350HD 512MB PCiE card..running into a Dell 2700 wide screen monitor.

 

The ATi Radeon 4xxxHD series is based on the R700 GPU released in June 2008. It is almost 4.5 years old, but it does make the recommended requirements for HLSL effects.

 

You may be interested in this from the HLSL FAQ here: http://www.mameworld...=&Number=255593

 

"Your performance is greatly enhanced by using graphics cards which contain more GPU memory and bandwidth. In cases for bare minimum usage (Geforce 6,7 Series, ATI Radeon R520/X1300–X1950, Intel GMA X3000 G965), you should expect that full screen HLSL shading effect will not be possible without severe frame-skipping. You can, however, run in a smaller window to allow many games to run at 100% with HLSL effects. Only by testing your particular setup can you find the optimum relation of size and performance.

 

If you want better performance for full-screen display and you aren't already using it, use the -switchres toggle which lowers your actual screen resolution resulting in less work that your card needs to do. For some, it makes a huge difference."

Edited November 15, 2012 by Trebor

[ChuckH]

Trebor,

Thanks for the Bentley Bear rom. It works fine in MESS.

Chuck

[Trebor]

Pac-Jason - I reported this to the thread that the ROM was released in...The header is wrong on the *.a78 file - The bad dump of Scramble had the same problem. I have not had a chance to look at or try signing the *.bin file.

 

Updated/better header and works perfectly under MESS here: http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/204780-happy-halloween/?do=findComment&comment=2641983