What's a good Atari 8-bit monitor to get?...

[Caterpiggle]

Is possible for someone who actually owned Prototype Atari XC1411 (Atari XE 8 bits monitor) ? Yes, I know it is only 1 exists. If anyone who knew who owns it , please be kind to send me a lovely photo at the back of this monitor and turn it on !

[+bob1200xl]

Pictures...

 

 

[Caterpiggle]

Bob ,

No, it is not Atari monitor. Your monitor is generic type.

[flashjazzcat]

Cool! Do you have any pictures of the MJ-22? I would really like to see it.

 

It's this ^

[richard_g]

My little 9" Sony PVM-9042QM has it all covered. PAL / SECAM / NTSC via s-Video and composite. Never fails.

 

Also looks better than any other CRT monitor in my opinion.

Edited November 25, 2012 by richard_g

[Phredreeke]

Commodore 1702 monitors also look fantastic, especially if your system supports S-Video (split Chroma and Luminance) with a monitor cable. I used one of these "back in the day", along with a Magnavox 80 column monitor once I got an XEP-80.

 

..Al

 

Don't forget though that if you use S-video you wont get artifact colors on games that use those.

[richard_g]

Don't forget though that if you use S-video you wont get artifact colors on games that use those.

 

That's odd - I tried my 800 NTSC machine with an s-video cable and did see the artefact colours using the Atarimania example:

 

GRAPHICS 8

COLOR 1

POKE 710,0

PLOT 60,60

PLOT 63,60

Got two different coloured pixels. Used this example to try out a new s-video cable I'd made.

 

Edit - Ah OK - as wood_jl posted below - the 800 is fine for this on s-video.

Edited November 25, 2012 by richard_g

[+wood_jl]

Don't forget though that if you use S-video you wont get artifact colors on games that use those.

 

This is true. I like the JVC TM-A13SU, too.

 

 

 

 

Thanks to AA user "Bryan" for pointing me to it, some time ago! You're a fella full of good advice!

 

 

The Commodore 1702 is made by JVC, so they both (obviously) share excellent JVC quality. However, the TM-A13SU has some advantages:

 

(1) Displays PAL, as well as NTSC. This might not matter to some, but I love having a Euro-Atari for those demos which require PAL. This makes it easy, for Yankees.

 

(2) Full digital controls, so there's no dirty/crackling thumbwheel controls. I have a 1702 (and other monitors with thumbwheels) and the thumbwheels work fine, with maybe just a little crackling on the volume control changes, so thumbwheels are fine, too, but the digital controls are just a hair better.

 

(3) This is subjective, but I think the TM-A13SU is better-looking (e.g. sleeker) and it looks slightly better with an Atari computer. I love the 1702, so don't hate me. This is small stuff, but just sayin' it's a good-looking monitor.

 

(4) I like the inputs on the BACK of the monitor, while the 1702 requires standard (composite) to be plugged into the front.

 

(5) It has a standard DIN-type S-video connector, rather than the 2 RCAs for chroma/luma. In the old days, this would not have been a benefit, but today, S-video cables for the Atari (not to mention everything else) are much more commonly available than the "split" cable for 1702 and older monitors.

For example:

 

Here's an S-video Atari cable on Ebay: eBay Auction -- Item Number: 230887077718

 

Here's another, on Ebay: eBay Auction -- Item Number: 230885861104

 

Here is the best Atari 8-bit monitor cable, ever, from 8-bit Classics.

 

The 8-bit Classics cable is BOTH standard composite video (yellow plug) and S-video. Combined with the JVC TM-A13SU - a monitor with and S-video and composite video connector on the back, and the A / B input switch on the front, you have the best of both worlds: S-video sharpness most of the time, and Composite artifacting only when you desire it, with no cable swapping!

The 8-bit Classics cable splits the Atari's mono audio onto 2 plugs, so if you were to use this cable with a stereo TV, you'd get sound out of both speakers without having to mess with an RCA Y-cable. On this monitor (which is MONO), you can route one audio plug to each input, so you get sound on both the A and B setting!

 

(click pics to enlarge)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As always, no S-video with 800XL/1200XL unless someone solders-in a connector for the Chroma (not hard, but must be done). 800 (ol' beige), 65XE, 130XE are good to go, from the factory.

[Albert]

The JVC TM-A13SU does look rather nice, I may need to pick up a few of those. I like that it has all the inputs on the back, and the PAL support is very nice as well. I can play PAL games on the 1702 (you can adjust them so they won't roll), but the colors aren't obviously right. I generally haven't had problems with the analog controls on the 1702, but I do have a monitor or two that has a noisy volume pot. I also have several 1702 monitors that need cap kits installed (have kits for three of them, just need to get that done).

 

For my needs, nearly all of the consoles I have that have been modified for S-Video output have RCA jacks for the chroma and luminance, and some also have an s-video jack, so they are already "hardwired" for the 1702, although I do have some cables I can use to convert the two RCA cables into an S-Video cable (need to find more of these, sa well as the opposite). I'll have to disagree with you about which is better looking.

 

The 1702 is what I used with my Atari 8-bits "back in the day", so I'm a bit biased towards those.

 

..Al

[fandenivoldsk]

Pictures...

 

 

 

Thanks!

[+bob1200xl]

You can use the COMPOSITE plug on an 800XL or 1200XL as the CHROMA input to s-video. Of course, you need RCA jacks like you find on a 1702 or MJ-22 in order to use this. Or, what I did was to build a little box that had RCA jack inputs and s-video outputs.

 

Bob

[Caterpiggle]

Bob,

Sigh.. I already know about this info above. All I want to see the image of the real Atari XC1411 Prototype XE Monitor style. I see there are only 1 in CES during 1980's when Atari Company was alive.

 

I believe you already know who I am.

[ataridave]

The XEs are functionally identical to the XLs. As regards durability: I've done lots of work on both XEs and XLs, and I personally haven't found the XEs to be less robust than XLs. You'll hear conflicting views there, though. I personally find the XEs to be the most stable and predictable. One advantage of the XL is that - for the most part - the chips are socketed.

 

What does it mean that the chips are socketed?

[atarian63]

Amiga 2002 is also a nice choice. Like that Amdek someone else mentioned and of course 1702,Albert has a zillion of them!

Edited December 10, 2012 by atarian63

[atarian63]

This is true. I like the JVC TM-A13SU, too.

 

 

 

 

Thanks to AA user "Bryan" for pointing me to it, some time ago! You're a fella full of good advice!

 

 

The Commodore 1702 is made by JVC, so they both (obviously) share excellent JVC quality. However, the TM-A13SU has some advantages:

 

(1) Displays PAL, as well as NTSC. This might not matter to some, but I love having a Euro-Atari for those demos which require PAL. This makes it easy, for Yankees.

 

(2) Full digital controls, so there's no dirty/crackling thumbwheel controls. I have a 1702 (and other monitors with thumbwheels) and the thumbwheels work fine, with maybe just a little crackling on the volume control changes, so thumbwheels are fine, too, but the digital controls are just a hair better.

 

(3) This is subjective, but I think the TM-A13SU is better-looking (e.g. sleeker) and it looks slightly better with an Atari computer. I love the 1702, so don't hate me. This is small stuff, but just sayin' it's a good-looking monitor.

 

(4) I like the inputs on the BACK of the monitor, while the 1702 requires standard (composite) to be plugged into the front.

 

(5) It has a standard DIN-type S-video connector, rather than the 2 RCAs for chroma/luma. In the old days, this would not have been a benefit, but today, S-video cables for the Atari (not to mention everything else) are much more commonly available than the "split" cable for 1702 and older monitors.

For example:

 

Here's an S-video Atari cable on Ebay: eBay Auction -- Item Number: 230887077718

 

Here's another, on Ebay: eBay Auction -- Item Number: 230885861104

 

Here is the best Atari 8-bit monitor cable, ever, from 8-bit Classics.

 

The 8-bit Classics cable is BOTH standard composite video (yellow plug) and S-video. Combined with the JVC TM-A13SU - a monitor with and S-video and composite video connector on the back, and the A / B input switch on the front, you have the best of both worlds: S-video sharpness most of the time, and Composite artifacting only when you desire it, with no cable swapping!

The 8-bit Classics cable splits the Atari's mono audio onto 2 plugs, so if you were to use this cable with a stereo TV, you'd get sound out of both speakers without having to mess with an RCA Y-cable. On this monitor (which is MONO), you can route one audio plug to each input, so you get sound on both the A and B setting!

 

(click pics to enlarge)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As always, no S-video with 800XL/1200XL unless someone solders-in a connector for the Chroma (not hard, but must be done). 800 (ol' beige), 65XE, 130XE are good to go, from the factory.

Looks like a studio or development monitor. Nice! I have a Sony Dev monitor I got from their movie production studio a few years ago when they got rid of most CRT's.

[flashjazzcat]

What does it mean that the chips are socketed?

 

Just that they're pushed into sockets on the board, rather than the chip legs all being soldered directly to it. Hence they can be removed easily. De-soldering ICs from the motherboard is a fraught and dangerous business unless you're pretty confident with an iron.

[Bryan]

Looks like a studio or development monitor. Nice! I have a Sony Dev monitor I got from their movie production studio a few years ago when they got rid of most CRT's.

 

It's a professional/commercial display, but it's a P-22 tube, not a SMPTE-C one like most of the metal-encased ones. This is a good thing in my opinion, because SMPTE-C phosphors tend to look washed out and dim even though they produce a more accurate color spectrum. The TM-A13SU looks like what you would get from a typical composite computer monitor but with a very good picture.

 

I also have a JVC SMPTE-C monitor and I don't really like it for computer use.

 

http://forums.creativecow.net/archivepost/65/200642

[ataridave]

IMO, it would have been awesome if Atari had made something like the Commodore SX-64, with a built-in monitor! That's definitely a retro computer that I'd like to get!

[+orpheuswaking]

http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=958

 

good luck hunting down the single prototype that is said to exist

[Magic Knight]

http://www.old-compu....asp?st=1&c=958

 

good luck hunting down the single prototype that is said to exist

 

Given the equipment available such as a XEGS keyboard, XF551, pc case and small monitor, i can see how this can be a project waiting to be built!.

 

Im possibly doing a A400 version of this if i accumulate some bits and piece over the next year - Given the color scheme - i think it will look retro-steampunk at the end of the day.

[bbking67]

The other option is to use a video upscaler. I use a DVDO iScan with good results on a modern LCD panel. It works with composite or S-Video (would need the chroma mod on 800XL). I have a Commodore 1701 and the 1084, and they are both excellent, but it's nice to use an LCD. The biggest issue with using the LCD is that many "flaws" in the signal are visible which are softened by the CRT... I like the converted LCD output, but I can understand why some folks would not like it. There is also the fact that the scanlines are not emulated, making the image look a little washed out and pasty--some purists buy scanline generators (this is going too far for me). I also use an RCA XL100 TV that I use with RF based systems (I have not added composite to my 2600 or ColecoVision) and I also like the way it looks with the Atari.

 

I also have some monochrome displays. These are very sharp with an Atari 8 and work well with the XEP80 output. I have an Apple II era screen (green phosphorous) and an Amber NEC (with audio!) that I use for this.

 

Going back to the upscalers... they are not all the same! I have bought 4 or 5 different ones over the years, and many of the units either produce terrible quality output or will not correctly interpret the Atari signal. These can also get quite expensive, though there are professional quality units sold off on eBay for very little money, especially if you are willing to scrounge around for a compatible power supply or do minor repairs.

 

Here is a good post with details about the iScan unit from when I got mine (based on advice from AtariAge users): http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/197554-suitable-tvsmonitors-for-65xe/

Edited December 11, 2012 by bbking67

[Hatta]

Upscalers also potentially introduce lag. Video processing circuitry inside LCDs has the same possibility. This won't be noticed by most people but top tier twitch gamers might be affected. I stick to analog monitors so I know I'm getting the fastest possible response. There's no number crunching going on in an analog CRT, it's all just physics.

[fernando marrin]

is really a 1084 much better than a good 14' "modern" crt tv ?

[mimo]

is really a 1084 much better than a good 14' "modern" crt tv ?

Yes

[Bryan]

Every time I go to the thrift store I see tons of nice CRT TVs with S-Video for $25. If you get one of the better brands it would probably work pretty well.