candle Posted May 12, 2013 Author Share Posted May 12, 2013 Ok folks Thanks to Allan and his schematics scans I was able to move this project a bit futher here you can find schematics for this board - at least their initial version as I wrote ealier - it will be as simple to install as original Incognito is - just remove Z103 and A105, plug Z103 emulation ribbon and Incognito-Lite board into memory slot I don't know if I should keep PBI bus and what to do with CF card, as once installed, it would be not accessible at all due to 400 case design I could move CF card adaptor into another location, ie on ribbon cable, but this might bring stability issues I would rather avoid, but considering all possibilities I could think of - this is the only sane thing to do as for PBI - you decide - any reasons you would like to have it? this is low end entry model of whole Atari 8bit series, having hard disk interface of Incognito board should be enough for almost everyone, and if not, why using 400 in first place? I can see this as nostalgic gaming machine, not something someone would like to do productivity stuff on it, so storage space for games - why not, but something more serious? This also questions need of SDX, but I might leave it just as it is just to keep rom versions between two Incognito flavours the same Let me know what you all think Sebastian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+tf_hh Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Hi Sebastian, my opinion... leave it all except the PBI connector. A SiDE is fine, if someone use a 2 GByte CF-Card, nearly all software can be put on it. And yes, the most reason to use a 400 is for gaming pure. No need to change the CF card often, new games can also be transferred by SIO. Just my 2 cents... Jurgen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candle Posted May 12, 2013 Author Share Posted May 12, 2013 currently there are no means of transferring any software to fat32 partition over sio reverting to atari dos partitions would be going back, and would undermine everything what was accomplished so far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Knight Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Removal of the Faraday cage is one option, but makes the unit lose its charm when the flap is opened. The switch needs to be hardwired on as well (which i have on the 800 so this bit not a problem to me). i dont fancy getting the jigsaw on the Aluminium just to get a slot, Perhaps a modded CF card reader in the cartridge gap and the commonly attached USB cable through to the underside is one option to consider? (a small hole perhaps for looking less drastic with the small usb style connector for interconnecting to the 400 upgrade PCB). Will push the in costs up, but without hacking the unit, (just a 8-10mm hole perhaps) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candle Posted May 12, 2013 Author Share Posted May 12, 2013 usb host... dream on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Knight Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 No - just the cable (acting like a ribbon cable would perhaps) - protocol can be what is best for the transferring provided the no. of cores was sufficient.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+tf_hh Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 currently there are no means of transferring any software to fat32 partition over sio reverting to atari dos partitions would be going back, and would undermine everything what was accomplished so far Sure, but I mean only copying via SIO (to prevent open the 400 for changing the contents of the CF card). I have a 16 MB ATR mounted in APE in SDX format and use it to swap easily short things via SIO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+tf_hh Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 usb host... dream on... Already there - the ABBUC USB cart. Should be no problem to expand the existing driver for file transmitting. This (good) project shows the typical problem (IMHO) in Atari 8-Bit series... a lot of good hardware developers, but only a few hardware programmers... most of the programmers want to make games, nor device drivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candle Posted May 12, 2013 Author Share Posted May 12, 2013 how many units were sold Jurgen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+tf_hh Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Sorry, didn´t know that. The carts were produced by Steven Tucker (AtariMax). I think, this is the "chicken-egg-problem" (I don´t know the exact english phrase, mean the old question: What was first? The chicken or the egg?). Nobody pays 40 USD for that device only to connect SOME old USB joysticks from only one or two software titles they recognized it. If you or somebody else is really interested in programming a device driver for this, I think it should be no problem to sent some developer packages. Contact me via email then. Jurgen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candle Posted May 12, 2013 Author Share Posted May 12, 2013 the problem with usb is that you either spend a year or few writing usb stack all by yourself, or, get something open sourced and spend with it half a year untill it kinda works but if you ask me if i would - i wouldn't - simply because i'm not a coder sure i can write a program, but i don't find it entertining - i just do what i must to get things done, as i know hardware is worth only as much as software that comes with it btw - i've read your mail, will reply in few days, need to catch up in many fields - replaying emails/pm is one of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venom4728a Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 What if we use SD card instead of CF. Then we could use this eBay Auction -- Item Number: 360642906172 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candle Posted May 12, 2013 Author Share Posted May 12, 2013 for $14? there are cheaper ways of doing this SD card is another way out, but implementing 4 bit SD card interface in current CPLD chip would be impossible, even 1 bit SPI interface is beyond it caps at current stage besides, Jon and I would have tremendous amount of work to redo in terms of software/drivers to get SD cards working and SDHC cards would be out of our reach, well.. at least from Jon's point of view Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+rdemming Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 What if we use SD card instead of CF. Then we could use this eBay Auction -- Item Number: 360642906172 SD card is another way out, but implementing 4 bit SD card interface in current CPLD chip would be impossible, even 1 bit SPI interface is beyond it caps at current stage besides, Jon and I would have tremendous amount of work to redo in terms of software/drivers to get SD cards working and SDHC cards would be out of our reach, well.. at least from Jon's point of view What about combining the SD extension cable with an "IDE to SD" adaptor. Then the Incognito board only needs an IDE connector instead of CF-connector but no other changes. Or you could stick the FC1306T chip on the Incognito board directly eliminating the need for a separate IDE2SD adaptor board. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormbringer Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 has anyone tried what I was suggesting in the past? CF to SD converter and then a SD wireless card. http://us.toshiba.com/computers/storage/flash/wifi-memory-cards/PFW008U-1ABW/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimo Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 Removal of the Faraday cage is one option, but makes the unit lose its charm when the flap is opened Not possible if you want the flap to be hinged and actually fixed on to the 400. A built in card reader so a USB cable could be plugged in just to transfer software from pc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimo Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 has anyone tried what I was suggesting in the past? CF to SD converter and then a SD wireless card. http://us.toshiba.com/computers/storage/flash/wifi-memory-cards/PFW008U-1ABW/ At $80 I think I will pass thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormbringer Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 At $80 I think I will pass thanks Thats the makers website, I just posted that for the specs. try a google search and you'll find it for half of whats on the site.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 has anyone tried what I was suggesting in the past? CF to SD converter and then a SD wireless card. http://us.toshiba.co...s/PFW008U-1ABW/ PQI makes one that's a little different, it's a microSD to SD card adapter with the wireless built into the adapter. PQI AirCard: http://www.pqigroup....=138&prodid=426 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sup8pdct Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 i will precomit to one. due to our trip, iwont be able to pay for it till next year james Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+rdemming Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 PQI makes one that's a little different, it's a microSD to SD card adapter with the wireless built into the adapter. PQI AirCard: http://www.pqigroup....=138&prodid=426 Those Wifi cards are indeed interesting if it is difficult to exchange SD-cards. The PQI wireless adaptor for micro SD cards seems a more sensible choice than the SD card with build-in Wifi adaptor. But in the PQI manual I don't see if it is possible to transfer non-picture/video/audio files. According to the manual the browser/mobile software only supports picture/video/audio files thus this will exclude our beloved .xex and .atr files Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Knight Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 Not possible if you want the flap to be hinged and actually fixed on to the 400. Oops forgot the hinge - velcro????....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormbringer Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 Suppo Those Wifi cards are indeed interesting if it is difficult to exchange SD-cards. The PQI wireless adaptor for micro SD cards seems a more sensible choice than the SD card with build-in Wifi adaptor. But in the PQI manual I don't see if it is possible to transfer non-picture/video/audio files. According to the manual the browser/mobile software only supports picture/video/audio files thus this will exclude our beloved .xex and .atr files Robert The Toshiba FlashAir supposidly does all file types and push/pull, thats why I didnt include the Eye-Fi since it seems to be limited by media type files. Didnt know PQI had their own. I like the microsd adapter idea, however. Wish we could find a CF-microsd with the wireless in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApolloBoy Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Removal of the Faraday cage is one option, but makes the unit lose its charm when the flap is opened. Isn't the shielding in the 400 structurally integral to the system? I know it's like that on the six-switch 2600 and the 800, if you remove the shielding the board(s) just flop around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Willy Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 for $14? there are cheaper ways of doing this SD card is another way out, but implementing 4 bit SD card interface in current CPLD chip would be impossible, even 1 bit SPI interface is beyond it caps at current stage besides, Jon and I would have tremendous amount of work to redo in terms of software/drivers to get SD cards working and SDHC cards would be out of our reach, well.. at least from Jon's point of view Once you have SD working, SDHC/SDXC is a gimme - you make a tiny change in the init code, then when you read sectors, don't change the sector number into a byte offset - leave it as a sector number. Done. That's all it takes as I found when adding SDHC/XC support to the Myth menus (flash carts for the MD, N64, SNES, and SMS). You can do the four bit SDIO with just the CPU and some GPIO lines, but it's slow. It's FAST SDIO that's tough to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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