DracIsBack Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Anyone know if the source code for the 7800 version of Karateka has ever been located? With all the excitement lately over fixing games like Donkey Kong and Kung Fu Master, this would be a cool one to update. Although I wonder if this is a game that makes more sense to just start from scratch with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinMos3 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 With my limited understanding, it seems like a good candidate for an update. All the mechanics are there... it's just completely chopped short -- no running to the next enemy, barely a half-dozen enemies anyway, no rooms toward the end, no closing gate or even a gate, hardly a boss fight, and no running to the lady. Would it really have taken that much extra space to keep these elements? I wonder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 This game is really hard/dumb on the 7800.. With better controls that did not have a severe lag it would be much better... Why so the lag anyways? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 This game is really hard/dumb on the 7800.. With better controls that did not have a severe lag it would be much better... Why so the lag anyways? I never understood it either. As a kid, the sales guy told me it lagged because it was a "super cart" and took more time to access the extra memory. :-) He was silly. The XE one was so much better, IMO ... but I think Atari simply got the Broaderbund source code and popped it on a cart. With the 7800, I think the Tramiels paid low $$$ for a quick port. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8th lutz Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I never understood it either. As a kid, the sales guy told me it lagged because it was a "super cart" and took more time to access the extra memory. :-) He was silly. The XE one was so much better, IMO ... but I think Atari simply got the Broaderbund source code and popped it on a cart. With the 7800, I think the Tramiels paid low $$$ for a quick port. True enough, but the people who did the 7800 of Karateka also did Hat Trick and Choplifter for the Atari 7800. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I've wanted to reverse engineer Karateka too but the Apple version, for diff. reasons. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felyx Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 True that Karateka of Jordan Mechner is a kind of state of the art of what can be done with only 6 colors. Wings of Fury which was released something like 5 years after Karateka has in comparison nice graphisms but very poor sounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7800 Emucoder Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 True enough, but the people who did the 7800 of Karateka also did Hat Trick and Choplifter for the Atari 7800. So they made 3 awful ports. What I normally do is play Karateka on the PSP version of Prosystem, turn the FPS limit off, and it runs at around 72FPS, which is actually perfect, and the lag is non-existent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip_Cannon Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I can't remember where I saw this.. I think it was here on AA.. but wasn't one of the original programmer of all those games a member here and posted a couple of times? I think he said that it was programmed in Forth language? And that it wasn't machine code? Something like that? Ring a bell anybody? Anyway, Karateka on the 7800 sucks... I remember my brother and I were so excited when we picked it up... We had played it on a friends Apple and were wondering why so much was missing... I'd say it would need to be from the ground up conversion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8th lutz Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I can't remember where I saw this.. I think it was here on AA.. but wasn't one of the original programmer of all those games a member here and posted a couple of times? I think he said that it was programmed in Forth language? And that it wasn't machine code? Something like that? Ring a bell anybody? Anyway, Karateka on the 7800 sucks... I remember my brother and I were so excited when we picked it up... We had played it on a friends Apple and were wondering why so much was missing... I'd say it would need to be from the ground up conversion... Yes, that rings a bell and I remembered the programmer posting here a couple times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 (edited) So they made 3 awful ports. I've mellowed on this through the years ... life in software development. It could be awful developers or inexperienced developers, but it also could be partly the constraints. If the Tramiels said, "we want this done in four weeks and in a 48K cart", they may have cut a lot of corners to make it happen. Betchya someone like Bob or Mark could come up with a version that's more like the Apple II release if so inclined. Edited January 25, 2013 by DracIsBack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 I can't remember where I saw this.. I think it was here on AA.. but wasn't one of the original programmer of all those games a member here and posted a couple of times? Found the thread http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/36432-i-officially-like-karateka/page__st__25 I was a bit hostile at the time. Remembering back, I was having to deal with a developer at work who just wasn't very good. He was working on a critical feature what he delivered was just garbage. He blamed everything but himself - the poor minimum system requirements, the awful tools, the terrible code he'd inherited, how the ask was impossible etc etc etc. I remember a few days later, his boss had one of the superstar developers look at the same thing and it was up and running as expected (better actually) quite quickly. memories ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7800 Emucoder Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I've mellowed on this through the years ... life in software development. It could be awful developers or inexperienced developers, but it also could be partly the constraints. If the Tramiels said, "we want this done in four weeks and in a 48K cart", they may have cut a lot of corners to make it happen. Betchya someone like Bob or Mark could come up with a version that's more like the Apple II release if so inclined. I'm mostly referring to Choplifter, actually. It's playable, but compared to the wonderful SMS version which came out before it, it is terrible. Big, dumb looking ugly sprites. very little detail. One level. Boooo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 I'm mostly referring to Choplifter, actually. It's playable, but compared to the wonderful SMS version which came out before it, it is terrible. Big, dumb looking ugly sprites. very little detail. One level. Boooo! Yeah - they really expanded the game, if I remember right. I think the 7800 is based on the Apple 2 version and the SMS was much expanded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic Pac Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 All I could ever say to anyone who ever gets around to fixing Karateka 7800. Do something with those horrible controls, next to Fight Night it's the absolutely the worst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 How about a Prince of Persia port from the Apple II version that's posted on the net? That's a project I would consider working on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 How about a Prince of Persia port from the Apple II version that's posted on the net? That's a project I would consider working on. Yeah do it!!! At least it would not suck!! Sorry karateka fans but after playing it on the 7800 there is NO redemption!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 First would be to get it to build an Apple //e version, before porting it over to the 7800...lol. But that would be awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoon Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 I'm mostly referring to Choplifter, actually. It's playable, but compared to the wonderful SMS version which came out before it, it is terrible. Big, dumb looking ugly sprites. very little detail. One level. Boooo! I was more disappointed with Choplifter for the 7800 than Karateka. My best friend had a Sega, and after playing his version of Choplitfer I saved my allowance until I had enough to get it on the 7800. Man, that was a dark day. At least with Karateka, I ended up putting a lot of play time into it. Even with all of its faults and shortcomings, it's not really that bad of a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic Pac Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 I totally agree I have played Choplifter on both the 7800 and SMS. Lets just say the SMS version is a million times better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted January 27, 2013 Author Share Posted January 27, 2013 wasn't the 7800 based on the original computer game, while the SMS one was based on the later arcade version? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinMos3 Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 It's funny hearing different people's opinions. I never had a problem with Choplifter, Hat Trick, or Karateka. I always thought the graphics in Choplifter looked good because I only had the Apple II version to compare. Later, I saw the 5200 version and the 7800 version still looks great. I do have Choplifter on the SMS, but I never compared them because it's so different from the computer versions, I think of that in a completely different category (same with Montezuma's revenge). I've always thought Hat Trick was fun. Still do. I only recently realized how limited Karateka was. I had only played the Apple II version when I got the 7800 one and that was a few years later. By that time, my memory of the Apple II was not as fresh and while I knew there were things missing, the comparison wasn't as stark. I still think the controls are okay. I remembered the Apple II being slow also, but judging by these posts, I guess the 7800 version is slower. ...And yet... I've never forgiven Rampage. I know it's a good game, but I've never forgiven the shortcomings in graphics or that there's no end to the game (like in the Lynx version). For me, my impressions seem to be based on when I got a game. Rampage was the last commercial game I acquired (around 1995) and by that time, I already had the C64 and Lynx versions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benighted Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Luckily I owned the XEGS and had that version of the game. I liked it very much and played the hell out of it. The excitement and thrill of entering the palace and then the dungeon was without comparison. The controls are kind of sluggish and I had to develop a certain technique to be able to stop running in time before I was struck down by an opponent. The delayed response times also had me using a couple of tricks on how to evade enemy blows. Of course I was kicked in the face by the princess the first time I defeated the emperor :-) As I understand the XEGS cartridge version is a direct copy of the disk version for the XE computers, as opposed to the 7800 which was a different conversion? Today I also own a 7800 of course, but I haven't bought Karateka yet due to numerous warnings. Choplifter actually find quite good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakasama Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 ...And yet... I've never forgiven Rampage. I know it's a good game, but I've never forgiven the shortcomings in graphics or that there's no end to the game (like in the Lynx version). For me, my impressions seem to be based on when I got a game. Rampage was the last commercial game I acquired (around 1995) and by that time, I already had the C64 and Lynx versions. According to the posters on the Lynx board, there is an end to the Lynx version of Rampage. Still, doesn't change the fact the 7800 version of Rampage doesn't have an end. It could stand to look a little better tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinMos3 Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 According to the posters on the Lynx board, there is an end to the Lynx version of Rampage. Yeah, that's what I was saying. The 7800 version doesn't have an ending like in the Lynx version. I can see how that wording could be taken the other way though. I've seen the Lynx ending before by skipping levels. It's been many many years, so I don't remember what it looks like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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