This is probably a dumb question...

[Ska_music_fan83]

I'm just curious, I've never owned or even played a game on the Atari 5200 (none of my friends had one growing up). And I know that the Atari 7800 is graphically at the same level as the NES and Sega Master System which are 8-bit.

 

So my question is, why is the Atari 5200 referred to as 8-bit? Is it actually the same graphics as Atari 7800? And if it is, why would Atari bother making another system that isn't anymore advanced than the previous one? (I know Atari made some dumb decisions back in the 80s but still...)

 

So yeah probably a dumb question... but just figured I'd ask anyway...

[8th lutz]

Atari 5200 is referred to 8 bit probably because of the computer line the Atari 5200 was based off on. Atari had a computer line that was labeled 8 bit computer line.

 

While the Atari 5200 and Atari 7800 are 8 bit and use the 6502 processor, the Atari 7800 is the better system for graphics. The nature of the 7800's graphics actually is better than the 5200 because of the amount of sprites as an example.

 

I actually didn't think Bentley Bear can pulled of on the Atari 5200 as well as the 7800 matter of fact because of how advance the 7800 is compared to the 5200. Bentley Bear: Crystal is an Atari 7800 game that shows what the 7800 can do from a graphical standpoint without the 7800 Expansion module.

 

Here is a link to Bentley Bear's graphics: http://www.atariage....00#entry2685250

Edited February 16, 2013 by 8th lutz

[8th lutz]

Bentley Bear: Crystal Quest actually doesn't depend on the Atari 7800 Expansion Module outside of sound. Bentley Bear can't use the ram of the Atari 7800 Expansion Module matter of fact. While PacManPlus called it a xm game, Bentley Bear doesn't use all of the Atari 7800 Expansion Module features. That means from a graphical standpoint, Bentley Bear depends on the Atari 7800 without the expansion module with it being a bank switching game.

 

Proof: http://www.atariage....50#entry2689442

Edited February 16, 2013 by 8th lutz

[+Allan]

The 5200 and 7800 use the same processor, the 6502. It's the graphics chips that make the difference. The 5200 uses Antic and the GTIA( same thing in the 400/800/XLs/XEs.) The 7800 uses the Maria chip, which was developed a number of years later.

 

Allan

[desiv]

This is probably a dumb question...

Then you've come to the right place!!

 

So my question is, why is the Atari 5200 referred to as 8-bit?

I believe that's more to do with the CPU used. All of those systems used 8-bit CPUs back then. (Well, that's a lie.. There were some early slow 16-bit ones.. Intellivision I think?)

It's more a marketing thing really.

Is it actually the same graphics as Atari 7800?

Well, that was just answered. Different graphics chips...

And if it is, why would Atari bother making another system that isn't anymore advanced than the previous one? (I know Atari made some dumb decisions back in the 80s but still...)

Mostly because the 5200 wasn't selling as well as they hoped.

 

Also, companies know that you have to upgrade your hardware. There are several different graphic generational jumps all in the 8-bit era.

 

desiv

Edited February 16, 2013 by desiv

[8th lutz]

 

 

I believe that's more to do with the CPU used. All of those systems used 8-bit CPUs back then. (Well, that's a lie.. There were some early slow 16-bit ones.. Intellivision I think?)

It's more a marketing thing really.

 

 

You are correct that Intellivision uses a early 16 bit cpu.

[DracIsBack]

I'm just curious, I've never owned or even played a game on the Atari 5200 (none of my friends had one growing up). And I know that the Atari 7800 is graphically at the same level as the NES and Sega Master System which are 8-bit.

 

So my question is, why is the Atari 5200 referred to as 8-bit? Is it actually the same graphics as Atari 7800? And if it is, why would Atari bother making another system that isn't anymore advanced than the previous one? (I know Atari made some dumb decisions back in the 80s but still...)

 

So yeah probably a dumb question... but just figured I'd ask anyway...

 

Not a dumb question. This has confused people for years, especially since Sega made a big deal out of being 16-bit over 8-bit. Search on youtube and you can find people calling the 2600 a 4 bit system, which is incorrect. The Intellivision is actually a 16-bit system (!). It's an easy explanation for people to say "X is more powerful than Y" and to think about processors and 'bitness".

 

All of Atari's systems prior to Jaguar are '8-bit'. This includes the 2600, the 5200, the 7800 and the Lynx. They all have a variant of the 6502 processor as their primary processor. The 2600's is a slightly slower 6507 and the Lynx's is a much faster 6502 processor that is sped up. The NES also uses a 6502 processor with a built in sound chip and the SMS uses a competitor 8bit chip - the Z80.

 

Where all of these systems are different is actually in their graphics hardware.

 

- The 2600's TIA (cica 1977) , for example, has almost no memory and draws everything on the screen live. This results in the simplistic graphics.

 

- The 5200's GTIA (circa 1981) is the same as is used in the Atari 8-bit computers. It has more colours and is capable of more sophisticated graphics and graphical tricks, but it has some limits in terms of resolution, sprites and the number of colours that can be easily utilized.

 

- The 7800's MARIA (circa 1983) is a totally different animal ... it's really adept at moving objects around and doing display tricks, but many have considered that to be quite difficult to use effectively. It was actually inspired by arcade games of the time. The 7800 is weird in that it technically has 'two graphics chips'. When it turns on, it's in 2600 mode and graphics and sound are made by the older TIA. If the game is validated as a 7800 title, MARIA turns on and does the graphics, leaving TIA to do sound only.

 

- The NES PPU (circa 1983) has bright colours and is adept at tile based side scrollers, but falls apart when you start to get into graphics tricks or a lot of moving objects.

 

-My understanding is that the SMS (circa 1985) is similar, but with more colours to draw from. If I remember right, the TMS9918 VDC is more like a successor to the Colecovision.

 

- The Lynx's MIKEY (circa 1988) is much more advanced hardware (often called 16-bit) and has a broader palette of colours and cool hardware tricks like hardware assisted scaling.

 

In the end though, all of them are 8bit systems.

Edited February 16, 2013 by DracIsBack

[Ska_music_fan83]

WOW! Well thank you all so much for your comments. Those were very helpful and informative!

 

I've never known much about video game hardware, I've always just played games on them. hehe

 

And yes 8th lutz, I've been following the Bentley Bear game thread, that looks like a really impressive game for the 7800!! Reminds me a lot of Adventure Island for the NES which was a game I used to love when I was little.

[Jinks]

Heres a dumber question. Can the 7800 some how use both maria and tia for graphic at the same time? Or would this be senseless as it would use up 6502 cpu time??

[DracIsBack]

Reminds me a lot of Adventure Island for the NES which was a game I used to love when I was little.

 

Check out the history of the game!

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/190094-wonderboy-on-the-7800/

[Ska_music_fan83]

Check out the history of the game!

 

http://www.atariage....oy-on-the-7800/

 

Ah! Very cool... makes sense why it looks so similar now haha. Thanks DracIsBack.