RobertLM78 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 the command line is one of the things that strongly keep me working with Linux and feel pity for all those Windows or other system users having to deal without. It's not a limitation, quite the contrary. In my eyes, at least. As a bit of a command line junky - I have to completely agree! It is not a limitation, it's liberation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 the command line is one of the things that strongly keep me working with Linux and feel pity for all those Windows or other system users having to deal without. Windows has a very powerful command line - cmd.exe can do a lot more than people expect on the surface (ie: it's not just command.com recompiled to 32-bit). When it's not enough, there's a secondary shell (powershell) pre-installed on all modern versions, and downloadable as far back as XP, which is frankly super impressive. Not sure what your pity is aimed at on that side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertLM78 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Windows has a very powerful command line - cmd.exe can do a lot more than people expect on the surface (ie: it's not just command.com recompiled to 32-bit). When it's not enough, there's a secondary shell (powershell) pre-installed on all modern versions, and downloadable as far back as XP, which is frankly super impressive. Not sure what your pity is aimed at on that side. Interesting. Does the powershell have a memory - like .bash_history in linux? One of my biggest complaints about the windows command line (when I was still using windows) is that it lacks this feature - which I think is a real time-saver. It also helps as a reminder if you forget a command. For example, the command to the windows version of Unix 'top' is long, complicated, and rather cumbersome: typeperf "\Processor(_Total)\% Processor Time" Now, there is no choice to but either memorize that all that jazz, or paste it into the command line, since you can't just press the up arrow to scroll back through the command history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) These "my OS is better than yours" discussions are a waste of bandwidth, but I'll note that "top" is an application, not part of the shell. If you want top on Windows, then port it, don't complain about the length of the command line needed to bring up similar built-in functionality. (Edit: Or use taskmgr.exe ) Bringing up the various parts of /proc in Linux is no less cumbersome. To my knowledge, there is no persistent command-line history in PowerShell or Cmd.exe. Again, if you want bash on Windows, well, it's already ported several times over. There's no need to complain about missing functionality. Edited October 31, 2013 by Tursi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertLM78 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) These "my OS is better than yours" discussions are a waste of bandwidth, but I'll note that "top" is an application, not part of the shell. If you want top on Windows, then port it, don't complain about the length of the command line needed to bring up similar built-in functionality. (Edit: Or use taskmgr.exe ) Bringing up the various parts of /proc in Linux is no less cumbersome. To my knowledge, there is no persistent command-line history in PowerShell or Cmd.exe. Again, if you want bash on Windows, well, it's already ported several times over. There's no need to complain about missing functionality. I wasn't trying to start an OS war - just asking about PowerShell while making a relevant observation . Too bad that there isn't a history for PowerShell - I think I might check it out though, if it's available for Windows 7 - I still have it on a partition . Edit: BTW - I like the idea of porting 'top' to Windows - I guess I should learn some C . Edited October 31, 2013 by RobertLM78 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) I tested it out of curiousity.. and it doesn't. While I appreciate the persistent history in bash, I don't count on it. It's normal for me to have multiple terminals open on a Linux station (or Windows box for that matter). Right now I count seven terminals open on my Linux machine. On my Windows machine, I usually have cmd and bash shells open (I have only used PowerShell for a few high-level scripts that needed access to the .NET stuff). So I can't count on the history being persistent in any particular one after I close out and restart. I'll still try, but if it's not there I have what I need. If I have a complex command that I need to remember - on either platform - I just make a batch file/shell script to do it. I do way too many operations for the bash history to contain them all conveniently, even if I use the search function. But saying that the way you have tuned your system doesn't work out-of-the-box on the other system is pointless - you can tune them both to your liking. Saying that the other system doesn't even have features (which it does) and saying you pity those users, that's just condescending, which was where I came in. My point is, the differences between the platforms are pretty blurred these days, we can all stop taunting each other about them and move on to more socially pressing problems, like Coke versus Pepsi and Kirk versus Picard. Edited October 31, 2013 by Tursi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertLM78 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) I tested it out of curiousity.. and it doesn't. While I appreciate the persistent history in bash, I don't count on it. It's normal for me to have multiple terminals open on a Linux station (or Windows box for that matter). Right now I could seven terminals open on my Linux machine. On my Windows machine, I usually have cmd and bash shells open (I have only used PowerShell for a few high-level scripts that needed access to the .NET stuff). So I can't count on the history being persistent in any particular one after I close out and restart. I'll still try, but if it's not there I have what I need. If I have a complex command that I need to remember - on either platform - I just make a batch file/shell script to do it. I do way too many operations for the bash history to contain them all conveniently, even if I use the search function. But saying that the way you have tuned your system doesn't work out-of-the-box on the other system is pointless - you can tune them both to your liking. Saying that the other system doesn't even have features (which it does) and saying you pity those users, that's just condescending, which was where I came in. My point is, the differences between the platforms are pretty blurred these days, we can all stop taunting each other about them and move on to more socially pressing problems, like Coke versus Pepsi and Kirk versus Picard. LOL - great stuff Tursi . I will point out though, that I never said anything about pitying other users - that was Michael that said that . (Although I notice that I had left that part of his comment in my quote, I was really agreeing with the fact that using the command line is not a limitation - and of course that applies to all platforms ) Edit: How does one do the equivalent of a bash script in Windows? (I admittedly have never done it before on Windows). Oh yeah - I think Piccard is the better capitan - but that's just my opinion - LOL Edited October 31, 2013 by RobertLM78 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Sisko rules. SCNR. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I will point out though, that I never said anything about pitying other users - that was Michael that said that . And I was just reacting to Rich's rant on command line usage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertLM78 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 And I was just reacting to Rich's rant on command line usage. I know - but I felt like I was taking undeserved heat for that part of the comment . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I will point out though, that I never said anything about pitying other users - that was Michael that said that . (Although I notice that I had left that part of his comment in my quote, I was really agreeing with the fact that using the command line is not a limitation - and of course that applies to all platforms ) Yeah, that was why I said that was where I came in. I didn't intent to attribute that quote to you -- in fact it was my preference not to name names anyway. Edit: How does one do the equivalent of a bash script in Windows? (I admittedly have never done it before on Windows). Create a text file with the extension .bat for command.com compatible scripts, or .cmd for cmd.exe compatible scripts (which has more functionality). Oh yeah - I think Piccard is the better capitan - but that's just my opinion - LOL I used to say Kirk by far.... but I have to admit that Picard eventually won me over. Hmm.. damn, no debate there! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Sisko rules. SCNR. Ahhh, here's the debate, I knew SOMEONE would have to bring in Sisko... Actually I don't have enough ammunition to fight that battle, but I did know it! No worries over all! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertLM78 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) Create a text file with the extension .bat for command.com compatible scripts, or .cmd for cmd.exe compatible scripts (which has more functionality). Cool - I will have to play around with that - and that command will make an excellent starter . I used to say Kirk by far.... but I have to admit that Picard eventually won me over. Hmm.. damn, no debate there! Both Kirk and Picard have their strengths, but Picard is always cool and collected . Edit: Sorry about the temporary derailment OX. Normal service can now resume . Edited October 31, 2013 by RobertLM78 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXB Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 These "my OS is better than yours" discussions are a waste of bandwidth, but I'll note that "top" is an application, not part of the shell. If you want top on Windows, then port it, don't complain about the length of the command line needed to bring up similar built-in functionality. (Edit: Or use taskmgr.exe ) Bringing up the various parts of /proc in Linux is no less cumbersome. To my knowledge, there is no persistent command-line history in PowerShell or Cmd.exe. Again, if you want bash on Windows, well, it's already ported several times over. There's no need to complain about missing functionality. This is not a bash but let us be honest Unix was invented in the 1960's and Microsoft copied it in the 1975 as the standard was the Unix shell command line. Unix is used for servers for a good reason it is more robust and less prone to memory leaks or viruses. I use both but I know Unix is more professional than Microsoft for many reason, most of which have to do with number of processors, memory size and type/number of devices. As for Linux that is just a gimped version of Unix that originally could be used on a Desktop as Unix at the time would never fit. Linux was created in 1991 by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OX. Posted November 4, 2013 Author Share Posted November 4, 2013 (edited) Cool - I will have to play around with that - and that command will make an excellent starter . Both Kirk and Picard have their strengths, but Picard is always cool and collected . Edit: Sorry about the temporary derailment OX. Normal service can now resume . Ha ha, no problem - just don't mention Deep throat 9 Edited November 4, 2013 by OX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 This is not a bash but let us be honest Unix was invented in the 1960's and Microsoft copied it in the 1975 as the standard was the Unix shell command line. Well, they didn't really. Microsoft didn't write MS-DOS, they bought it (86-DOS, 1981), and they also bought Xenix (AT&T Unix, ported by SCO, 1980), so they can't really be accused of copying anything. It's just the usual misinformation these threads generate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OX. Posted November 4, 2013 Author Share Posted November 4, 2013 Still after the SAMS rom for MESS - anyone found it yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+acadiel Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 In Windows you can also create such a command line and store it in a batch file. Or you can install the QMC2 frontend, create a configuration with the appropriate cards plugged in and start the emulation from there. OX., I have another question: I noticed that Gamebase relies on the old BIN format for cartridges in MESS. This format was dropped quite some time ago in favor of the RPK format because the RPKs are much easier to handle (and I could throw out hundreds of lines that were merely there to support both formats). Could you include the RPKs in Gamebase so that people are able to update their MESS version without losing Gamebase support? It should not be too hard to achieve because all RPKs are available at Whtech and it would only mean to reference a single new file instead of the bin files. Along the same lines, do you know if MESS can support the new HFE floppy format the HxC emulator and others are using? http://hxc2001.com/download/floppy_drive_emulator/SDCard_HxC_Floppy_Emulator_HFE_file_format.pdf Thanks, MZ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmusr Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Still after the SAMS rom for MESS - anyone found it yet? I think it's here: ftp://ftp.whtech.com/emulators/mess/roms/ti99_complete.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 @OX.: There is no SAMS ROM in MESS. If there is a real ROM, I have not hooked it into the implementation. If the SAMS card indeed has a ROM I would certainly be happy to get a copy and to include it in MESS! @RasmusM: I do not know whether the MAME core supports the HFE format. If it does I'd still have to enable that format in my parts because at this time I'm only checking for sector dumps and track dumps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OX. Posted November 4, 2013 Author Share Posted November 4, 2013 How is sams implemented in Classic99? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertLM78 Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 I too would like to see SAMS support in MESS (just throwing out my 2 cents ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmusr Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 You can use this option in MESS: -peb:slot3 samsmem I haven't tested that it's actually working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 How is sams implemented in Classic99? C++. If there is any kind of ROM with the AMS or SAMS card, it is neither referenced in the documentation nor required by any of the software I have tested against. Why do you believe there is one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXB Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Well, they didn't really. Microsoft didn't write MS-DOS, they bought it (86-DOS, 1981), and they also bought Xenix (AT&T Unix, ported by SCO, 1980), so they can't really be accused of copying anything. It's just the usual misinformation these threads generate. Actually that is not true. Bill Gates sold IBM an OS that did not exist and they did not have. Paul Allen had a buddy that created a copy of CP/M called Down & Dirty DOS, hence the name DOS. (Previously DOS was IBM Mainframe only, but CP/M and IBM were in a scrap over costs and freeware as CP/M could not be charged for thus how Gates entered the picture.) So Gates and Allen changed the commands to include things like the \ and / as there was a conflict and copy right issues. Lucky for them the author died (Gary Kidall) and the wife did not sue but took a buy off. She could have owned MS today LOL. All of this is in the Paul Allen book on his life and Microsoft. He is much more honest then Gates would every be about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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