Not to sound like a weenie

[Cousin Vinnie]

I'm having a hard time getting the excellent Frenzy game to look halfway decent on my big screen. Certain robots in Frenzy- like yellow, lite blue in green are fine. The robots that are red and dark blue are almost impossible to make out- and their bullets are like real bullets................... invisible (WHICH SUCKS).

 

This isn't rare. Some of Bob's games... like Failsafe and Space Duel are real hard to see on my TV set. Other first run games like Tower Toppler and Midnight Mutants look like flaming fee fee too.

 

Any tips? Or do I need to invest 9 dollars in a Goodwill Tube TV?

 

CV

[rockman_x_2002]

I've always had issues with classic consoles and modern HDTV sets. The Atari 2600 and 7800 do seem to fare better than most on my set, though, with only the Commodore 64 beating it out in terms of video quality (using S-Video with the C64, though). The worst looking system for me is the NES, of course, and everything else seems to fall somewhere in between it and the 7800 in terms of video and color quality.

 

A good old-fashioned CRT is just hard to beat for these old machines, seems like.

 

For added fun: If you have an N64 laying about the house and have never tried it on an HDTV, go ahead and give it a shot. It'll make your eyeballs cry blood.

[Cousin Vinnie]

 

For added fun: If you have an N64 laying about the house and have never tried it on an HDTV, go ahead and give it a shot. It'll make your eyeballs cry blood.

 

LOL

 

 

I remember they played a commercial at the movies for Donkey Kong 64 on the big screen years and years ago. It looked like utter hell. Literally - like cow hell. I was just telling a guy tonight that games before the PSX and N64 still look good- and after that generation looks good. But that first 3D generation of consoles struggled.

Edited November 12, 2013 by Cousin Vinnie

[Albert]

I've found that RF tuners in modern televisions are rather poor. It seems to be hit and miss whether or not a modern set will even display the picture generated by a 2600. You'll get the best results with a 2600 or 7800 that has been modified with composite or (even better) S-Video output.

 

..Al

[Trebor]

Vinnie,

RF and even composite and S-Video mod Atari systems will be off to some degree on a modern flat panel display. Some you may obtain a decent (Maybe even a great picture) but the color palette will be different.

For space consideration and overall picture excellence, I recommend a Commodore 1702 monitor and having your system mod. The CRT composite picture quality will be very good to excellent. Another option is Best Electronics which provides a system that has a good to very good composite CRT image.

If space is not an issue, I also highly recommend the Panasonic CT27DXX line from the late 90's and early 2000's. Of course the always popular and beautiful Sony Trinitron's are solid gold as well.

Those games were meant to be seen on a CRT, and are adversely affected by a modern flat panel displays which (at the very least) mishandles and manipulates the color palette of all Atari consoles: Atari 2600, 5200, & 7800.

[YANDMAN]

I hate the way classic machines look on modern tv's, I have a garage full of crt's they are disappearing at an alarming rate i suggest you get one and maybe a couple, My 7800 looks absolutely terrible on my lcd, i would go so far to say unplayable

[Cousin Vinnie]

On my TV most of the first run games look pretty good~ I could live with it. It's just a few of my favorite games from Bob look like the azz... and Ken's B*nq. Thanks for the info fellas.

[desiv]

I have a garage full of crt's they are disappearing at an alarming rate ..

I'd suggest you invest in a better lock for that garage.. Maybe a video surveillance system??

 

Seriously tho, the LCD in my living room does a pretty poor job with the older systems with composite.

The 3DO looked pretty good with s-video, but that's a generation or so newer than some of my systems..

 

I'm using my 1701 now for some of those and it looks much better, if smaller..

(And the lightgun works again...)

 

I check TVs at goodwill from time to time, but the only ones I've seen with s-video are HUGE..

I'm hoping for something in the 19" range with s-video.. Otherwise I'll stick with my 1701 or 1084s...

 

desiv

[HammR25]

They'll really look awful if 4K becomes the standard.

[Albert]

They'll really look awful if 4K becomes the standard.

 

When, not if, although I think it will take a while.

 

..Al

[PacManPlus]

I always try to get as close to the arcade colors when doing a port of something.

 

However, I'm starting to wonder if GCC/Atari chose certain colors instead of others because of this issue. One perfect example of what I mean is Ms. Pac-Man. GCC was the one who hacked/created Ms. Pac-Man in the first place (as Crazy Otto), so they would know the correct colors. Yet they purposely chose 'hot pink' for Blinky instead of red, and the off-color for the first maze. This may be why?

[Gabriel]

I've had similar experiences with Frenzy on two separate CRT televisions. The dark blue robots are almost invisible. I've taken to calling them the "Shadowlords."

[Trebor]

I always try to get as close to the arcade colors when doing a port of something.

 

However, I'm starting to wonder if GCC/Atari chose certain colors instead of others because of this issue. One perfect example of what I mean is Ms. Pac-Man. GCC was the one who hacked/created Ms. Pac-Man in the first place (as Crazy Otto), so they would know the correct colors. Yet they purposely chose 'hot pink' for Blinky instead of red, and the off-color for the first maze. This may be why?

My theory on why GCC chose their colors is due to how the console pot adjustment may have been set. It is super sensitive with just the slightest adjustment causing a significant change. They may have had a system with the pot set slightly different when finalizing choices.

 

Here's the illustration:

 

The middle row capture (MSPAC0) is how Ms. Pac-Man appears with a properly color calibrated NTSC CRT TV and a NTSC Atari 7800 system with the pot properly adjusted.

 

The captures on top (MSPAC-9, MSPAC-6, MSPAC-3) are what may be seen on a NTSC 7800 console that either:

 

A. Is being shown on a modern flat panel display

Or/and

B. Has the console pot adjusted so that there is more blue to red / less blue to green.

 

The row of captures below the middle (MSPAC3, MSPAC6, MSPAC9), you'll notice it produces colors looking more 'pleasing' and Arcade-like. It is the result of the pot being adjusted so there is less blue to red, but more blue to green.

 

MSPAC9, looks *very* similar to what was captured and stored on Moby Games back in 2003: http://www.mobygames.com/game/atari-7800/ms-pac-man

 

MSPAC3-MSPAC6 closely follows the colors for Ms. Pac-Man on the 5200:

 

 

I believe this is what factored into GCC choices - an "off" pot adjustment on the console utilized when colors were chosen - but having the reason from the horse's mouth would be best.

 

P.S. Speaking of which...Thank you Cousin Vinnie for the thread, as it made me re-listen to the MP3 interviews here: http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/consoles/7800/7800-20th/

Scroll to the bottom of the page.

 

It has the "horse's mouth" speaking on the GCC and what went down with the 7800 and the whole company business - both GCC and Atari's from their perspective. It is fantastic and very insightful. It is an hour very well spent.

 

Much appreciation and thanks to Curt Vendel (as usual) for posting it and sharing generously that historical information and account.