Options for flash drive. HD

[gozar]

Well then the carts are best suited for read only program/game loads?

 

So maybe this will help me understand better. Lets say i want to boot to basic, and save files/load files from the SD/CF media. What special needs to be done without modifying the machine? And how much memory is available to user at this point?

 

Same thing, but with cart like Action or Mac65 loaded from disk? Memory constraints?

 

Im thinking IDE+ 2 is my best best bet his point.

 

My configuration is the MyIDE+Flash cart with a Transcend 128MB and the OSS carts in Flash (Basic XL, XE, Action, Mac65). I start it up, select what cart I want to use, and it boots up. As a beginner, this works well for me and is a lot faster than anything SIO based. I'm assuming the new MyIDE II + CF works in about the same way.

[+Ripdubski]

Indeed which is why im asking so many "dumb" questions.

 

I wont be using TurboBasic. Im thinking about this from my sons point of view. I imagine he switches on the machine. Boots to basic, likely internal basic for simplicity. Learns, plays, loads his work, saves his work. Minor interactions with dos. Powers off. Maybe he powers it up, goes into a menu, selects a game, and plays a bit, then powers off. He will be 7 soon. He might not be interested in the games since he plays xbox now.

 

Ill be doing most of my stuff, games, programming, etc via emulator on my Mac. I do want to be able to run some of that on the actual hardware at some point but not on a regular basis. At least thats how i see it, maybe it will change a bit if the solution works well.

 

So now im thing MyIDE][ for him and a 130XE, and IDE+2 for me using an 800XL or another 130XE. Or SIDE... Decisions....

[Marius]

Indeed which is why im asking so many "dumb" questions.

 

I wont be using TurboBasic. Im thinking about this from my sons point of view. I imagine he switches on the machine. Boots to basic, likely internal basic for simplicity. Learns, plays, loads his work, saves his work. Minor interactions with dos. Powers off. Maybe he powers it up, goes into a menu, selects a game, and plays a bit, then powers off. He will be 7 soon. He might not be interested in the games since he plays xbox now.

 

Ill be doing most of my stuff, games, programming, etc via emulator on my Mac. I do want to be able to run some of that on the actual hardware at some point but not on a regular basis. At least thats how i see it, maybe it will change a bit if the solution works well.

 

So now im thing MyIDE][ for him and a 130XE, and IDE+2 for me using an 800XL or another 130XE. Or SIDE... Decisions....

 

What you want for your son with Basic, is indeed very possible, and really easy to accomplish with myide ][.

 

Once you setup the right partitions (for him) it can be (for him) this easy:

 

1. Insert MyIDE ][ cart

2. Power On Atari

3. Hit Enter

4. Hit Enter (or B for Basic)

 

And there is Dos or Basic.

[+Ripdubski]

My configuration is the MyIDE+Flash cart with a Transcend 128MB and the OSS carts in Flash (Basic XL, XE, Action, Mac65). I start it up, select what cart I want to use, and it boots up. As a beginner, this works well for me and is a lot faster than anything SIO based. I'm assuming the new MyIDE II + CF works in about the same way.

Thats along the lines of what I want to do as well. How would you load the carts into MyIDE flash, assuming they would go into the extea memory in the cart?

[Marius]

You can load the carts with the FAT32 loader, or you can put them in the flash-part of the cart. You can re-flash the cart even by using the FAT32 loader, but beware: if you don't have the option of re-flashing the cart if something goes wrong (you need something to boot ATR files, I don't know you have that already... a sio2pc, or a stand-alone device?)

 

And yes: you can combine a cart WITH the myide-bios. So loading AtariArtist.rom or AssemblerEditor.rom can be combined with booting a partition with a dos (so you can save/load your stuff).

 

I did a conversion of Mac/65 for MyIDE ][ ... it works 100%, but in the Debugging Tool (DDT) there is some disturbance on the screen when you scroll up and down. This is because the original cart was tight-programmed, and I needed one or two extra cycles to do some stack-operations. This leads to some sync-issues on the screen in the DDT, but it doesn't influence right operation of the DDT in Mac/65.

 

The feature where you can let the MyIDE act like a cartridge, is rather cool. It's one of the better feature of this little thingy.

 

So summary:

1. You have a ROM on your PC/Mac... like AssemblerEditor.rom

2. You put this on the FAT32 partition of your MyIDE CF cart

3. You put the CF card back in the MyIDE and you switch on the atari

4. You first load the MyBIOS Soft OS from the Card

5. You 'reboot' the Atari with the right keycombination

6. You chose FAT32 loader

7. You load your AssemblerEditor.Rom with that FAT32 loader

8. The Atari now boots the MyIDE partition, and when that is the right one (I mean with a DOS), you can use the Assembler Editor like you booted a floppydisk and you had the Assembler Editor cart inside the atari.

 

 

If you need any help, feel free to ask, or PM if you like. You could always use the AtariMax forum too.

Edited January 21, 2014 by ProWizard

[+Ripdubski]

Great great info! Thank you! So if i wanted to preserve the ATR loading, then dont load the carts into flash - if I read that right? I dont have any device at the moment so recovery is nil. In the latter i can just boot and run the car from disk?

[Marius]

I am afraid I did not fully understand those questions. I am not native English speaker. Could you ask it in a different way?

[+Ripdubski]

if i want to preserve the ability to load ATR then i dont load the carts (action/mac) into flash - correct?

 

I dont have any SIO or other high capacity devices at the moment, so recovering the flash with the ability to load ATR is ni if I understood correctly. In this case i can just boot and run the cart from disk?

[+Ripdubski]

One last question. Can Side run ROMs?

[Marius]

Ah due to the AtariAge crash from yesterday my response was gone. And that is a pity because it was a very long reply.

 

I think you should study the features of the MyIDE cart. It is better than all what I write.

 

And I also mentioned a warning about IDE+ ... it works on all XL/XE models, but..... on 800XL you need a very small easy-to-do 1-wire mod inside (or outside) to get 5V to power the IDE+ interface. You can get that from Joystick port if you want.

[+Ripdubski]

I finally ordered an Atarimax MyIDE ][. If it doesn't work out like I want, I'll try the SIDE2. If that doesn't work I'll probably go to SIO2SD (or maybe IDE+2). Thanks for all your inputs.

[Marius]

If you need help, feel free to ask. It's sometimes hard when you start this for the first time, but with a little help you will be up and running ASAP ...

 

One more question:

Do you have a disk drive and floppy disks with software?

[+Ripdubski]

Yes. I have a 1050, several DOS's and a few disk games. Years ago, I should have kept the Rana and Indus drives I had. Hindsight...

[Marius]

Ok great! Well if you need any help with the MyIDE ][ … feel free to ask. I have been using it some more the last few days, on a stock atari, and I still think it is a nice gadget.

 

The MyBIOS SOFT-OS feature is not so compatible indeed (you don't need that to have fun with the interface), but on the other side: It's an extra feature, which makes it versatile.

 

In fact you can compare MyBIOS Soft-OS with the compatibility of an Atari 800 with OS B with 48K. Can you have fun with a stock atari 800? Definitely!

 

I was doing some coding on Synassembler, using the MyIDE ][ and that worked very good. I used XDOS, but it works well with MyDOS too.

 

I am expecting my SIDE2 + Ultimate1MB combo soon, and of course that will bring a lot of great features to my Atari. But as said before: on stock Atari… MyIDE ][ is a cool choice.

 

I think it would be a good idea to make a comparison chart of the features MyIDE, IDE+, SIDE, Blackbox, Mio, Sio2SD etc. give. That makes it easier to chose which interface is your best choice.

[+Ripdubski]

I think it would be a good idea to make a comparison chart of the features MyIDE, IDE+, SIDE, Blackbox, Mio, Sio2SD etc. give. That makes it easier to chose which interface is your best choice.

I sort of made one. I'll try to complete it and post it. Maybe someone will find it usefull.

[+Ripdubski]

Here is what I started. The IDE+2 is not completed as I ruled it out early. It also doesn't cover all the flash carts available as I was mainly interested in those that can read/write to CF/SD/HD. If someone wants to add to what is missing, or correct anything I may have wrong, or add other interfaces, please let me know.

 

Link to spreadsheet at Google Drive:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApPxZOV3-QLndDdoZzZXN3JQb1ZXWEtoVFpORFVuZEE&usp=sharing

[flashjazzcat]

Here is what I started. The IDE+2 is not completed as I ruled it out early. It also doesn't cover all the flash carts available as I was mainly interested in those that can read/write to CF/SD/HD. If someone wants to add to what is missing, or correct anything I may have wrong, or add other interfaces, please let me know.

 

Link to spreadsheet at Google Drive:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApPxZOV3-QLndDdoZzZXN3JQb1ZXWEtoVFpORFVuZEE&usp=sharing

 

Couple of observations on the SIDE 2 column:

• ATR Multidisk should be "w/U1MB" and might point out that disk swaps are accomplished using a button on the cart, and are not in any way dependent on hotkeys or the IRQs being left intact on the A8
• ROM loading is (AFAIK) possible in some cases using the SIDE loader
• SIDE2 has 512KB of flash ROM, not 256 (half SDX, half loader/user alterable)
• SRAM: N

MyIDE 2 can be reflashed with a 512KB SDX ROM image which includes the MyIDE 2 driver, which provides full after-market APT support (including hot-swapping cards). However, if we're talking about out-of-the-box, then that's probably by the by.

Edited February 2, 2014 by flashjazzcat

[candle]

can't edit

as Jon said, plus for ide+ atr multidisk should be yes, for rev D boards and above (if there will be any)

rom size for ide+ is 15536kbyes

 

rom loading - as jon said - some will load - the issue here is, that if cartridge tryes to check if it's run from ROM instead of RAM doing accidential writes to its own image - it will hang, if not, it will work flawlessly (plus, you're limited to 8k ROM images)

 

this was not my point of intrests when i was designing side/side2 carts as in my belive, most if not all of these rom images were converted to xex files long time ago...

[drac030]

IDE+ data:

 

* ATR Multidisk: Y (for all revisions, rev. D allows ATR swap/rotation)

* ROM Load: N (is such an option useful at all?)

* XEX Load: Y

* Flash: 512k SDX ROM, 512k User ROM, 96k System ROM

* RAM: 32k

* APT Format: Y

[+Ripdubski]

Updated

 

BTW i think im going to order a Side as well for kicks. Then i can use one and my son can use the other, and ill probably use the Side.

Edited February 2, 2014 by Ripdubski

[+Ripdubski]

Got my CF cards (4GB) today. Hopoefully this weekend Ill get some time to play with them.

[Marius]

IDE+ data:

 

* ROM Load: N (is such an option useful at all?)

 

Yes that is rather useful.

 

1) You can run ROM games that do require more memory as .XEX version (like Barnyard Blaster, Commando) when this option is there.

 

2) You can enjoy the benefits of a rom version in stead of a file/disk version. I think of using an Assembler like Synassembler.

 

Ofcourse you could plug in the real rom, but if you don't have that rom, or when you want to have as much on your HD, this is a useful feature, at least for me.

(Which means: I use it a lot)

 

But don't get me wrong. IDE+ is my favorite interface from the entire list. The only two things that I would love to see is a partition-selector "on the fly" like MyIDE and the Blackbox have. I know you have your doubts about a screen coming up when you press the button. And the ability of using a FAT32 partition for .XEX and .ATR files.

[Marius]

I also can not edit the file. I would like to add info for BlackBox.

[flashjazzcat]

Yes that is rather useful.

It might be useful on the IDE Plus, but I agree with Candle that it's a low-priority feature, especially when you're using the SIDE loader with Ultimate 1MB. With such a configuration, any 8K ROMs which don't work well as XEXs, you can flash to the game slots anyway, so they work like real carts. And you can finally do this in about 1-2 minutes using new tools; almost as quickly as you can load an XEX, in fact.

 

But don't get me wrong. IDE+ is my favorite interface from the entire list. The only two things that I would love to see is a partition-selector "on the fly" like MyIDE and the Blackbox have. I know you have your doubts about a screen coming up when you press the button. And the ability of using a FAT32 partition for .XEX and .ATR files.

XEX and ATR selectors are cool, but I start to wonder about the usefulness of partition selectors. The imminent massive SIDE/Ultimate/Incognito APT update implements dynamic partition mounting in the most discreet (though capable) way possible. I rather get the feeling the whole issue of partition selection will become deprecated when the 32MB partition size limit is lifted in SpartaDOS X.

 

Of course, MyDOS will never be able to access partitions of more than 16MB in size, so perhaps dynamic partition mounting remains useful there. My stance is that fifteen partitions should be enough, but with MyDOS and others there exists the additional limitation of only eight drive IDs. So: partition mounting exists for those who wish to use it (in all but the SDX soft-drivers, from where the feature has been summarily dropped).

Edited February 4, 2014 by flashjazzcat

[Marius]

It might be useful on the IDE Plus, but I agree with Candle that it's a low-priority feature, especially when you're using the SIDE loader with Ultimate 1MB. With such a configuration, any 8K ROMs which don't work well as XEXs, you can flash to the game slots anyway, so they work like real carts. And you can finally do this in about 1-2 minutes using new tools; almost as quickly as you can load an XEX, in fact.

 

 

XEX and ATR selectors are cool, but I start to wonder about the usefulness of partition selectors. The imminent massive SIDE/Ultimate/Incognito APT update implements dynamic partition mounting in the most discreet (though capable) way possible. I rather get the feeling the whole issue of partition selection will become deprecated when the 32MB partition size limit is lifted in SpartaDOS X.

 

Of course, MyDOS will never be able to access partitions of more than 16MB in size, so perhaps dynamic partition mounting remains useful there. My stance is that fifteen partitions should be enough, but with MyDOS and others there exists the additional limitation of only eight drive IDs. So: partition mounting exists for those who wish to use it (in all but the SDX soft-drivers, from where the feature has been summarily dropped).

 

Where I wrote 'partition selector' I also meant ATR selector.

 

I am one of these people who want to work with his setup, like he did when he used floppy disks. So imagine: I'm using my Syncalc spreadsheet. Then I am doing my administration (which I really am doing on a8) and then I realize: oh darn... I need that floppy disk of 2012... well the only system yet that let me do this is the Blackbox and on a certain level also MyIDE. (I have a few administration disks as a partition on MyIDE).

 

Other example: I'm using my Atari Touchtablet on a regular base with AtariArtist. And always... that particular ATR with images is NOT the one I mounted. In those cases I would love to be able to press the button (like on blackbox or MyIDE the keycombi) and a screen would come up and let me select the disk I need.

 

When I'm coding I always use a new floppy or partition for every new project. I don't want the risk of doing something wrong and losing an entire partition. From time to time I just need a routine or a music-file... and you guess it right: it is not on the partition/atr I just mounted; so now I have to reboot the system, mount the right atr's or copy the desired files etc.

 

So that's why I need that feature, and I guess it would be awesome if it was there. I do not see a lot of problems with a config screen coming up after pressing an IRQ button. It works perfect on MyIDE and Blackbox and Freezer 2011.

 

So for me it is not necessarily needed to swap partitions all the time: I could use ATR's as partitions too... but a ways of mounting ATR's to the right Dx: on the fly would be a huge improvement. I think the power of APE/Aspeqt/Sio2PC and comparable devices is that you can swap/mount/detach atr's while the atari is running. I think the strength of the blackbox (and on a certain level MyBIOS) is that you can do that also -menu based-.

 

I can imagine that when you work on a different way with your atari, you do not need all this. But I seriously think that my way of using the atari is really convenient (and in some cases, like with the Syncalc spreadsheet even needed to work this way), so I hope it will be made one day.

 

Edit:

Other features that would be cool in that menu-environment:

 

* the ability of creating a new (empty) atr

* the ability of (un)protect an image

 

I guess everyone can imagine why those features would be handy indeed.

 

Anyway: the way IDE+ works now is great, and it's already powerful enough yes. But I see certainly a few points of improvements, which I would love to have. I would even pay for those updates, if there is only a small base of interest by other people in these features.

Edited February 4, 2014 by ProWizard