RXB Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Am I correct in assuming that if I put many ROM programs on a disk created by using Gazoo's HSGPL menu loader program I can avoid having to move ROM programs that I want to use to banks 0 and 1 by using CALL BANK(x) followed by CALL GRAM ? Along the same line would not RXB have to be installed on the first bank of the HSGPL card in order to use CALL GPOKE that is in some RXB statements? I have not yet used RXB 2012 to any large extent but would like to do so in the near future. Jacques RXB can exist in any page of GROM. I have tested it in the PGRAM in all the 4 PAGES that the PGRAM supplies. Of course it only has one set of ROMs so that is fixed in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Is there any documentation for the Geneve, such as a manual for MDOS? I'd set up a system from scratch instead of basically using someone else's set up. There is, somewhere, but as with most command shells, you'll make use of 20% of the commands for 80% of the time. That is, you'll get pretty far with DIR, CD, COPY, REN, DEL, MD, RD, FORMAT, TYPE. @Tim/other Geneve users: In regular intervals the idea recurs to my mind that we should set up a collection of DSK images with useful Geneve applications. We can upload that collection to WHTech and put some links on the Geneve home page. Maybe with some sections like "Editors", "Assemblers", "Graphics", "High-Level languages", "Word processors", "System tools" etc. The only problem is that there are some programs that were distributed commercially (like Fortran 9640), so maybe this can raise some issues when we offer it for download. I found some really interesting tools in the 9640 News collection, but which may only be found by chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertLM78 Posted July 8, 2014 Author Share Posted July 8, 2014 There is, somewhere, but as with most command shells, you'll make use of 20% of the commands for 80% of the time. That is, you'll get pretty far with DIR, CD, COPY, REN, DEL, MD, RD, FORMAT, TYPE. Of course, but I'd still like to have one . The only thing I found was a zip of fixed errata. What about an 'Advanced BASIC' book? One thing I noticed conspicuously absent from that is SIZE. It can be a PITA to find things on Whtech... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazoo Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 What is the GRAM address line? Bank >10 implies page 16. Some modules will not work on any PAGE but page 1. Page 16 replaces page 1 when it is activated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXB Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Page 16 replaces page 1 when it is activated. So is that like Classic99 when I load GRAM with the GPL@LOADER that loads GPL Compressed Object code from the Ryte Data GPL Assembler? The would be better then using the PGRAM in MESS as no switch to flip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Well, it's possible. And I've just recently proved my theory of Grom bank switching. So yes, it can be done, and with the ubergrom cart, no modified widget. One cart. Yeehaw! Gazoo I have a theoretical question, since a shite-ton of goodies can now be packed into one 'Uber Cartridge', would it now be possible to make a port of MDOS for the lowly 4A? Could you just imagine the new world of utility that would open up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+hloberg Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 I have a theoretical question, since a shite-ton of goodies can now be packed into one 'Uber Cartridge', would it now be possible to make a port of MDOS for the lowly 4A? Could you just imagine the new world of utility that would open up! isn't 4DOS fairly simular? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertLM78 Posted July 8, 2014 Author Share Posted July 8, 2014 isn't 4DOS fairly simular? They are fairly different actually. In the world of DOS, 4A DOS stands out as having some odd conventions. MDOS is much more 'standard' than 4A DOS. I guess I'm slow here because I'm not sure... are you talking about two VIRTUAL cart slots for MESS or two REAL carts for use on a real TI with a modified widget? If so, would a new modified design for a single cart make more sense, assuming you could address that much GROM, I don't know. If this is this just a MESS thing, I believe we are about to come to a fork in the road where some people will be playing with the TI-99/4A's and others a TI-99/Faux A. I understand the appeal for some when it comes to emulation and simulation, but for me personally, if the real TI cannot be made to do it, it's false and I'm not remotely interested... but that is just me. Some of us can't afford the cost of the toys available in MESS, and my real TI is acting odd lately. Obviously, if it can't be run on a real TI, I don't think any of us are interested . And that's what makes MESS so special: is its high accuracy of emulation. Everything I've coded in MESS also works on the R.I.™. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXB Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 I have a theoretical question, since a shite-ton of goodies can now be packed into one 'Uber Cartridge', would it now be possible to make a port of MDOS for the lowly 4A? Could you just imagine the new world of utility that would open up! A DOS environment is tricky on the TI as honestly you need tons of memory to do this. I would use the SAMS as that has the extra memory and Assembly speed. From GPL you have access but lose the speed. Also things like PATH just has no where you can save it without it molesting other software. So my solution would be GPL for easy access and easy use from multiple environments like BASIC or GPL or EA Cart. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+hloberg Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 A DOS environment is tricky on the TI as honestly you need tons of memory to do this. If it's a true command line DOS memory shouldn't be an issue as only the modules needed would be loaded. All be permanent would be a command shell. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 If it's a true command line DOS memory shouldn't be an issue as only the modules needed would be loaded. All be permanent would be a command shell. I agree, back "in the day" there were some computers out there with limited memory that had a decent and robust operating systems. One that comes to mind is the TRS-80 Model III, it even had more than one DOS to choose from like TRS-DOS, DOS PLUS, NEWDOS 80, etc. If I remember correctly, the original MS-DOS was a redesign/port of the earlier CP/M. If something like this was made, it'll would be better, because in cartridge form you'll not have to wait for modules to load off of diskette, which will speed things up. And now with more people getting HD's, HDX's and other things it would sure make life easier. IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+hloberg Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I agree, back "in the day" there were some computers out there with limited memory that had a decent and robust operating systems. One that comes to mind is the TRS-80 Model III, it even had more than one DOS to choose from like TRS-DOS, DOS PLUS, NEWDOS 80, etc. If I remember correctly, the original MS-DOS was a redesign/port of the earlier CP/M. If something like this was made, it'll would be better, because in cartridge form you'll not have to wait for modules to load off of diskette, which will speed things up. And now with more people getting HD's, HDX's and other things it would sure make life easier. IMHO. i wonder if funnelweb could be modified to run via a command line? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willsy Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 It's next on my list of ti projects! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 It's next on my list of ti projects! Cool! May I make a request for a possible feature? Since the equivalent of a 'config.sys' type of file cannot reside in the cart (no two peoples setup are the same), it will have to reside on the users storage device, so having an option (like in 4A DOS) to toggle between 40/80 column mode would be real nice, especially since so many of us now have F18A's. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+InsaneMultitasker Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I have a theoretical question, since a shite-ton of goodies can now be packed into one 'Uber Cartridge', would it now be possible to make a port of MDOS for the lowly 4A? Could you just imagine the new world of utility that would open up! MDOS (The Geneve Operating System) is a full-blown OS that would not be easily ported to a 9900 without making quite a few system modifications and allowances for the different processor (9995 versus 9901) and memory management differences. A major difference in architecture is the Geneve's visible RAM space is 64k (8 x 8K chunks) that can be paged in and out, which is used quite extensively in the OS and native MDOS programs. The Geneve can emulate the TI and runs nearly all programs properly, except for programs coded to directly scan the keyboard (i.e., many terminal emulators). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertLM78 Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 There is, somewhere, but as with most command shells, you'll make use of 20% of the commands for 80% of the time. That is, you'll get pretty far with DIR, CD, COPY, REN, DEL, MD, RD, FORMAT, TYPE. @Tim/other Geneve users: In regular intervals the idea recurs to my mind that we should set up a collection of DSK images with useful Geneve applications. We can upload that collection to WHTech and put some links on the Geneve home page. Maybe with some sections like "Editors", "Assemblers", "Graphics", "High-Level languages", "Word processors", "System tools" etc. The only problem is that there are some programs that were distributed commercially (like Fortran 9640), so maybe this can raise some issues when we offer it for download. I found some really interesting tools in the 9640 News collection, but which may only be found by chance. Whtech is a mess, but the Geneve section seems like it could really use some sprucing up. I did find the Geneve manual, which I'm assuming is the 'complete' MDOS manual as well. The Myarc BASIC manual is another story - there is probably 50% of the manual in one- to two-page (vaguely named) pdfs - not really the way I'd prefer to have to use a manual . Back on topic though: I tried the 'Navarone' method of picking a port, and 4a_dos showed up, so it looks like ROM-only carts have to have the port explicitly stated with the multi-port. (Although Willsy looks like he's about to make 4a_dos obsolete ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I believe that with the availability of the Geneve via MESS, many more people could be tempted to give it a try. There's still so much potential in this machine. Still, as I said, we need some guidance for beginners, and I'll start to set up compilations of useful programs to be downloaded from WHTech. We can still take down those programs when the authors do not agree. Tim, maybe you could also check your software collection for some useful tools. I'll upload them to WHTech. Fin..a...al - oh...hoooooh ... (Sorry, must have been a flashback from yesterday's football world-cup semi-final) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertLM78 Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 The Geneve is an amazing machine - playing with one on MESS again makes me want a real one . I agree though, some guidance for beginners would be highly useful (along with some complete manuals ). (Myarc BASIC's available memory makes a project of mine 1000 times easier - so I will write a version for MXB (Myarc) and one for RXB, once I figure out how to place and grab strings to and from AMS). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXB Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 MDOS (The Geneve Operating System) is a full-blown OS that would not be easily ported to a 9900 without making quite a few system modifications and allowances for the different processor (9995 versus 9901) and memory management differences. A major difference in architecture is the Geneve's visible RAM space is 64k (8 x 8K chunks) that can be paged in and out, which is used quite extensively in the OS and native MDOS programs. The Geneve can emulate the TI and runs nearly all programs properly, except for programs coded to directly scan the keyboard (i.e., many terminal emulators). What ever happened to the this: http://nouspikel.group.shef.ac.uk/ti99/hams.htm Upto 16 megabytes of memory Accepts SRAM and EEPROM chips Maps memory at >4000-5FFF: Can have DSRs Maps at >6000-7FFF (cartridge space) Maps at >0000-1FFF: can override console ROMs Maps at >8000-8300: can override console RAM Everything the TI is missing is there. More RAM, maps anywhere we need RAM including ROM 0, CART, DSR and Scratch Pad!!!! Run this from MESS or Classic99 or on a Real TI and then you can have a TI that combined with EVPC would give the Amiga a run for the money. Best of all we would finally have a decent DOS and OS as banking the ROM 0 with DSR space and Scratch pad would really speed stuff up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Run this from MESS or Classic99 or on a Real TI and then you can have a TI that combined with EVPC would give the Amiga a run for the money. Well ... not really ... still two different leagues. The 68000 processor already had an address space of 32 bit, and even with the TMS99000 we'd be stuck with our 16 bits. Add as much memory as you want, we know it well from the Geneve - your processes only see 64K. There is of course a way, using bank switching, but this is not transparent, so you always have to split your buffers in some way to fit into the pages. The instruction set architecture just does not allow for more. On PCs, until only few years ago, the logical address space (4 GiB) was much larger than the physical memory. When this grew to today's size, 64 bit systems became useful. The Geneve and the TI-99/8 have much more physical memory than they can access, and so none of them, including 99000, can really provide something like reasonable memory management. The best thing to do with that memory is either multitasking with several processes (each getting 64 K) or exploiting the memory as separate pages, like memory files, or known from DOS ages, like EMS. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ksarul Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Rich, I may actually do a small run of the Nouspikel HAMS board just to see how it works, but that won't happen until sometime this fall. . . 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertLM78 Posted July 13, 2014 Author Share Posted July 13, 2014 (edited) This isn't exactly about the the multi port, but rather the GRAMKracker. I'm having trouble with it on MESS- I've tried: ./mess64 ti99_4ev -peb:slot3 speech -peb:slot4 samsmem -peb:slot5 pcode -peb:slot6 tirs232 -peb:slot8 hfdc -flop1 ~/mess/disks/BOOT.dsk -hard1 ~/mess/TI-HD.hd -gromport gkracker -cart1 ~/mess/ti_carts/rxb_2012.rpk This returns the error: gkracker.bin NOT FOUND (tried in ti99_4ev ti99_4a ti99_gkracker)FATALERROR: Required files are missing, the system cannot be run. but the ti99_gkracker.zip has the gkracker.bin in it... so is it a bad file perhaps? The date of the .bin file is Dec. 1996. I went ahead and attached the zip, too. ti99_gkracker.zip Edited July 13, 2014 by RobertLM78 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXB Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Not sure I have almost given up on MESS again. Spend all day for 2 weeks and it crashes then spend the next few days on it again. Do not want to complain to much, but the set up and menu for the TI MESS is really old and refuses to work correctly on Windows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Hi Robert, try to unpack the zip file and re-pack with zip. Worked for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertLM78 Posted July 13, 2014 Author Share Posted July 13, 2014 Hi Robert, try to unpack the zip file and re-pack with zip. Worked for me. Absolutely perfect advice - thank you Michael! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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