Shannon Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 Maybe it was just the "wow" factor but when I first actually tried out some of Atari's titles like "MS Pacman" and "Galaga" on the 7800 some 5-7 years ago, and even "Dig Dug" many years before that (which had me hooked). But lately I've had the chance to try some of the other 7800 titles like Joust, donkey kong, and dk jr, etc. Is it just me or is the attention to detail in the 7800 titles lacking compared to their 8-bit home computer counterparts? Sure asteroids was pretty cool, but the scale is Donkey Kong (nevermind the crappy sound) is waaay of. It seems to be missing those tiny little details that came across much better on the home computer version. Dk Jr the levels dont even occur in the correct order. Joust was ok, but didn't seem to have that same "control" nor do I remember running into "higher level" baddies unless they hatched from an egg. They may have been better looking in some respects but the games just seemed to be lacking that "attention to detail" that made alot of the computer, and even 2600, titles that much more enjoyable. Is it just me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsiddall Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 I just got a copy of Mario Bros. for the XE computer line (cartridge format). The graphics on the 8-Bit computer version look much better than the 7800 - sounds/music as well, but that's a given since the 7800 lacks the POKEY sound chip. In fact, the 5200 version pales in comparision, too. This was not a port from one Atari platform to the other...although looking at the copyright dates, it appears the 5200 version was done in 1983 and the 7800 in 1988 as well as the XE 8-Bit computer. Plus I'm told that the XE version may not run on the older Atari computers (400/800)...haven't tried to verify this tho'. I'm assuming the cart is 64K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inky Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 I have to say, being a previous owner ofa 5200 Qix at one time, and now having the 8 bit Qix in my posession, the 5200 version is just better all around, sound and graphics wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+davidcalgary29 Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 The 8-bit computer line had a much, much longer development history than either the 7800 or the 5200. In my mind, late-era 7800 titles are superior to most 8-bit carts that were produced contemporaneously, but then, we don't have much with which we can compare between the two system. And many XE games that were produced in Europe in the '90s are, in my mind, equivalent (roughly) to a lot of the titles that were being produced for the STs and the Amiga. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 This will inflame all 5200 and 7800 owners, but I gotta say - the 8bit carts hands down are better than those for the atari consoles. Alright so 8bit Centipede is stinky, Qix is slow, they are just badly done Ok. But the vast majority of 8bit carts trample all over their games console bretherin. And if Atari had not been taken over I would imagine any good 5200 games (yes there are a few), like Space Dungeon and Gremlins would have been ported over... sTeVE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sauron Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 I'll definitely have to agree with that last statement. The 8bit carts just seemed superior to anything I've played on either the 5200 or 7800 (especially the 5200). Not to mention that there was a MUCH wider variety of games for the 8bit, especially considering that many of them came on floppies. If I had to choose one out of the three, I'd pick the 8bit without even giving the other two a second thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 Let's compare Asteroids with the 7800 version... Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sauron Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 You can compare Asteroids, or any of the other classic Atari arcade games on the 8bit with the 7800 all you want. All I know is that I can't play M.U.L.E., Alternate Reality, or Lode Runner on the 5200 or 7800, which in and of themselves are enough to seal the deal for me. We can also compare the size of the game libraries too, if you'd like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shannon Posted April 12, 2003 Author Share Posted April 12, 2003 Uh oh... I didn't mean for people to compare sizes.. uh I mean library sizes here. If anyone will notice I did say besides asteroids. I didn't even mention the 5200 because its hardware is based off of the 8-bit home computer. But the attention to the important minor game play detail, as well as proper scale, level order, the way the baddies act (look at the fire on the girder level in donkey kong), the 8-bit version were MUCH more faithful to the originals. Asteroids, Qix, Space Invaders, and Congo Bongo excluded. lol. But really. Overall on compareable games the attention to details makes all the difference. Dare I even say some of the 2600 games did a better job of capturing the "feel" of some arcade games. Stinkers exluded. I guess I'm just saying that when I was tinkering with the 7800 only titles I was really dissapointed with some of the arcade cross overs. It just came across as sloppy programming to me, either that or rushed delivery, or poor play testing. Not all of them granted, just certain ones that I felt the home computer version was superior, despite the less colors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceCold Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 Maybe I'll get an SIO2PC cable and see if you guys are right about the 8 bit computer thing. I have to admit though, often I'd much rather play the 5200 version of a game instead of the 7800 version. My 7800 is mostly just used for 2600 games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 I've noticed the version quality tends to run as follows: 400/800/XL < 5200 < XEGS The 7800 is all over the map. Joust, Robotron, Asteroids, Xevious, Pole Position, Ballblazer, and Food Fight are hands-down the best 8-bit versions of these games Atari ever released. But then efforts like Centipede, Crossbow, Mario Bros, Karateka, and Choplifter are painfully inferior to the 5200 and XEGS versions. I guess it just goes to show that with a POKEY onboard and only top-quality developers like GCC and U.S. Gold, the 7800 could have stomped all over the NES. Oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 I too, would have to agree that overall, the 8-bit is superior in quality of the games. But, the 7800 does have several that I think are undeniably better than the 8-bit graphically, like mentioned before; Asteroids, Joust, Ms. pacman, Robotron, DigDug and some others, the sound is inferior to the 8-bit's Pokey (execept with BallBlazer which is DEFINATELY the best on the 7800, in every way),but then there are those cool games that just aren't on the 8-bit like Commando, Ikari Warriors and TowerToppler, that are very good on the 7800 and better than any computer version I've seen, both 8-bit (c64) and 16-bit (ST). As far as I'm concerned, the sound isn't that important to me on these old 8-bit machines, even most 16-bit computers sound sucked compared to more modern systems, even if they were in stereo. It's nice to have the marginally better sound, but the graphics are more important to me in the classic systems (which is why I rarely play 2600 games except for the occasional Solaris, the graphics have just grown too primitive for me; this is not the case with the 800/5200/7800 though). but then, I'm lucky I guess, because I own all of them from; 2600, 5200, 7800 and 8-bits (and 16-bit ST for that matter) so I get the best of everything! But like Sauron mentioned, the 8-bit rules because of games like Alternate Reality, M.U.L.E, Ultima series and those Lucas games not found on the 5200/7800; Eidelon&Koronis rift. I also prefer the disk versions of 8-bit Ballblazer and Rescue on fractalus because of the little extras like the intros while the games are loading (if you don't have the priated versions or pre-release versions that lack these intros, or XEGS carts that also lack them), even 7800 Ballblazer, though better in every way, doesn't have the cool intro of the hovercraft flying by and the pilots stopping&waving, etc...too cool! (and while the game loads!). Bottom line, get an 8-bit and SIO2PC if you can, but get all the consoles too, if you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 I hafta say comparing Asteroids on the 8bit and Deluxe Asteroids on the 7800 is pretty unfair - they are 5 years apart. The 8bit could do an awesome revised Asteroids (just look at ZOne Ranfger)... I agree that Joust looked better on 7800, but the 8bit version played so well, as did Ms Pacman, I broke sticks on 8bit Ms Pacman, I love that game!!!! I also prefer the Lucas games on 8bit, the 7800 version of BB has worse audio than the 8bit version, despite having chunky Rotofoils. Plus the cart version of ROF and BB on 8buit DO have those awesome intro sequences - just like the disc versions!!!! sTeVE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 I hafta say comparing Asteroids on the 8bit and Deluxe Asteroids on the 7800 is pretty unfair - they are 5 years apart. The 8bit could do an awesome revised Asteroids (just look at ZOne Ranfger)... Yes, but Asteroids was a first generation title for both systems, unlike a lot of the other titles mentioned. Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sauron Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 8bit Asteroids and the 7800's Asteroids Deluxe are two different games. Comparing them is hardly fair. Even though both were first generation titles, just keep in mind that 8bit Asteroids STILL predates Asteroids Deluxe by quite a bit. And I still haven't heard anyone tell me how I can play M.U.L.E. on a 7800. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mos6507 Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 The 7800 can put up more colors at 320x200 than the 8-bit does, but most games never used that mode so based on resolution alone you won't see much of a difference between the 7800 and 8-bit. The 7800 can animate more sprites, though, which is why it can do things like Robotron which are really hard to do on the Atari8. On the other hand, the 7800 has a serious RAM deficiency. It can't even hold enough RAM for a full screen framebuffer. Some games added RAM on the cart but even then it was much less than even an Atari 400. Having extra RAM really adds a lot to what you can do with a game, not to mention disk-based games and a keyboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shannon Posted April 14, 2003 Author Share Posted April 14, 2003 I was thinking more along the lines of authenticity to original arcade game play, as opposed necessarily to better graphics, or more color, or more sprites, or better sound. Although this has turned into an interesting conversation. I'll have to play the 7800 version of Ms. Pacman again.. for some reason it just rubbed off on me the wrong way. Not sure why, so I'll have to try again so I'll remember. lol. I'll have to try robotron too, just for comparison. If I remember correctly the home computer version looked like it used character graphics right? But I was thinking of the feel as well... something that shouldn't be tooo limited by hardware capabilities or memory. For example, not to be picking on donkey kong, but it's the one I remember the best for some reason. Mario's jump was way too long for the scale being used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shannon Posted April 14, 2003 Author Share Posted April 14, 2003 OK I changed my mind on Ms Pacman. Just tried again, and it was fine, although it gets a little hectic in the 3rd maze. Robotron was decent but it's hard to play when you have to be moving in order to fire. I'm assuming this is easier with two sticks... Hmmmmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 The 800 version of Donkey Kong is the best amongst all coversions back in the day - the jumping gravity is very good as are the graphics and levels (Ok, we're missing the top level on the first screen!) But it looks and sounds great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 the 7800 versions are brilliant imho compared to 8bit versions. centipede galaga (ok...unfair...) joust mario bros. dk jr. pole position asteroids etc... as they might have lower resolution but from gfx point of view they are far more colorful (thanks to the different color tabs... ) hve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avram Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Can someone point me to the technical specs of the 7800? And why did Atari skim on the soundchip? Cost cutting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Hve, I think the 5200 centipede plays way better that the 7800 version... As pole position II was on 7800 not pole position, I'll skip that one, Galaga too - no fair comparison:) I totally disagree on DKjnr and Mario Brothers - the 800XL DKjnr cart is a GREAT conversion, slightly chunky movement but simply plays and looks great!!! XEGS Mario Brothers nukes 7800 MB totally too - no comparison!!! I'm still unconvinced anything significant on 7800 is better than 8bit... sTeVE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 steve, just matter of taste imho... i played atari joust to death, but love the 7800 version, too... and the 5200 centipede version is awesome compared to the cart.... BUT the 7800 is far better... soory... it's more colorful... and i love colors...i give a damned shit to resolution if the colors are ok... re: mario bros... the 8bit version is crap... the sound is crap because of damned pokey initialisation (like moon patrol...) but could be because of the cracked version and/or PAL... or i mixed it up with the GBA version.... re: poleposition....i ment mainly the cars...compare the damned playermissle vehicles of the 8bit version (little bit better than the 2600 but ways... i guess the VIC20 version has better looking formula 1 cars... ) and look to the 7800 ones... and it's fast... ok... the resolution is lower but... re: dkjr.... more colors, smoother movement of the crocodiles... (i guess 8bit is done in charmode...) hve ps. you know why i like the 7800 centipede more? because of the nice title screen and the moving worm around the chars of "centipede"... nicely done... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Kay Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Interesting topic... I have always been ticked by the lack of colors on 8-bit games, but I really think this is an apples and oranges topic, considering the lifespan of both systems, the comparative age of the hardware, and amount of developers working on both systems. However, I would venture a guess that if the same amount of developers worked for the same amount of time with the 7800, it would kill the 8-bits. As it stands the 8-bit has a lotta lotta better titles than the 7800, but there are a few shining stars in the 7800 library. Good grief... come to think of it, Solaris tops a lot of 8 bit and 7800 titles, so it really comes down to development. Cheers! Joey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 re: mario bros... the 8bit version is crap... WHICH 8-bit version? There's the adequate 5200 version, and the fantastic XEGS version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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