Jinroh Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 (edited) Yeah man I'll have to run I through my utility at some point. Wouldn't look as pretty as some of those great tech demos but it usually leaves me with enough character sprites for 2-3 enemies. Would be fun to play with. I'd love some kind of Battletech game too. That would be rad. Even Mechwarrior 1989 though that might be better on the ST. Edited April 4, 2017 by Jinroh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 Yeah man I'll have to run I through my utility at some point. ? The stuff above is just some "do some background graphics" and use all the PMg for one Sprite. Gazillions of people struggled doing fluent games that way. Those "Tests" were in real "final state", as they never will turn into a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinroh Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 (edited) Exactly that's why I said Lyrens was such a tease. It's so close but he uses the PMGs and such for extra colors and whatnot. There's nothing left. Those kinda demos are why I designed my test demos to use the bear minimum so there's plenty of wiggle room to add the rest if I ever got the time/desire. Edited April 4, 2017 by Jinroh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 (edited) It's so close but he uses the PMGs and such for extra colors and whatnot. There's nothing left. In other threads I explained that, if games "needs" the colour resolution 160x240 , and some better details and colours, the only solution is to use the features of the hardware. Using character modes, cost too much CPU, same with hardware scrolling. The example is Prince of Persia, where those fixed screens could get to a nice detail level , but the restriction is 3 colours , not 4 colours for the graphics. You could use several hardware and software tricks, put together, to get a fluent game then. 3 colour graphics would allow moving objects with some detail and 5 different colours for 5 different enemies. 1 colour needed for doing masking. Also. Your Battletech game could be done , but not in hires. It's a perfect candidate for some Gr.7 + PMg "underlay" . You'd get a lot of cpu available for the "AI" aswell ... Seen Gunfright ? 32 bytes width also open a door to "otherwise" non available games. The Atari offers a lot of possibilities for the best fit of a dedicated game.... even for 3D Ego view games. Edited April 4, 2017 by emkay 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinroh Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 Oh very cool I'll have to check out some of those bitmap modes. The limitations were well workable for Character modes I've been using, so I've not felt the need to use them. Thanks for the info. Super cool that Battletech could be done as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwilove Posted April 4, 2017 Author Share Posted April 4, 2017 The problem I see is - is that it's always going to be the sprites problem - side scrolling games especially highlight this problem. An excellent example of this is the game 'Tales of Dragons and Cavemen' which I thought was done to a very high standard - but showed the problem with sprites. Even if you used software sprites to get over the flicker issue - the problem would be - being of the same colours as the background, they don't have much chance of standing out, against the background. Maybe then, this is where I see the legitimate use of the sprites to help these software sprites to stand out - to add some extra colour? I'm never one to opt to use sprites for extra colour as such - as I always thought their intended use for sprite function(s) is the best use for them. Software sprites requiring more use of the CPU and other resources. Hopefully software sprites can prove useful enough - though there is an associated cost in doing so, such as a slower frame rate. It does require a great deal of work by the programmer to bring a game to completion - that will always be why, you'll see some preliminary test(s) to see whether a project is feasible or not, to begin with. I don't think there is the money to be made from 8-bit Atari games these days - so you would be very lucky to see completed projects of a commercial standard. That people working on any projects (of any standard) - are really doing it more for the love of doing it - and there is something very special about creating (or being part of) such projects. It's one of those desires that can come full circle - that you loved playing the games back in the day - and it is a dream realised - to actually work on projects for such a beloved hardware. And it's no different from other hobbies or interests which captures the human passion. Harvey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 I'm never one to opt to use sprites for extra colour as such - as I always thought their intended use for sprite function(s) is the best use for them. Software sprites requiring more use of the CPU and other resources. Hopefully software sprites can prove useful enough - though there is an associated cost in doing so, such as a slower frame rate. Yeah. The biggest issue with the PMG is.... it has no details to offer. But it can do colour adjustments over the whole screen. That's why C64 optimized Software will never work on the Atari in a satisfying way. Using the PMg, offers also to handle direct masking, without any CPU usage. Using the Playfield colours to mask the PMg is THE solution on the A8. If your game only needs charmode resolution movement, feel free to use a char mode. If fine movement is needed, linear graphics modes do far better. BTW.... I'm still "dreaming" of a game like Turrican for the A8. But not as Turrican itself. Just arranging vertical scrolling levels, depth scrolling levels, and some 3D action in one game. And, please, finally, some very good POKEY Music Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwilove Posted April 6, 2017 Author Share Posted April 6, 2017 It would be nice to see some kind of game - like Turrican, or Megaman or Contra 3? perhaps. I'll have a go with some sprites (and animation) - but can't say how long it will take to get something somewhat presentable together (or I may fail at trying to) - as I have other stuff in real life, that I need to spend time, etc on. Or simply work on some Wonderboy graphics - to see if that can look OK? I tend to think that it's the sprite graphics that would be the harder part to do - that if you can't do that - you might as well not do the rest of it. It's pointless working on background graphics - if the sprites don't stand up well against it. Harvey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinroh Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Since I posted M.U.S.C.L.E. in the thread here ages ago, I figure I'd post a shot of the current state. 99% of the graphical coding is done. DLIs finished, PMG/Char Software Sprites for the wrestlers, they move around, it scrolls. Time to start adding the gameplay. Once you can beat on each other, I'll make its own thread. Just thought I'd post this since my last update was like a year ago. x3 I honestly didn't work on it all this time until this week. Since I'm laid off at the moment I figured why not! 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 And me I have to say that it look/will look even better because that is a looking colours NTSC not updated to what it should be/look... This one have something that goes ahead of anything ever done on A8 but I can't say more by now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 And I also am a full-time job A8 worker, anyone have something different to do? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinroh Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 (edited) Oh nice, looking forward to see what game you have working on. This one have something that goes ahead of anything ever done on A8 but I can't say more by now... Edited April 13, 2017 by Jinroh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 (edited) "This one have..." is your game ... Edited April 13, 2017 by José Pereira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinroh Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Oh I see, well I wasn't planning on doing anything that goes above what has been done on the A8 before. "This one have..." is your game ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 The mix PFs/PMGs and interaction between on the guys will open for a certain games types but will post you when you end this one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinroh Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Oh I see. I was actually going to do a game for my ST after M.U.S.C.L.E. though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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