Wanted: Feedback For Rampage & Double Dragon

[Lynxpro]

 

Yes, I have purchased two PCB's!

Simply, I thought the question was referring to the release of the game (ROM) in electronic form.

 

KevinMos3 Rampage (Graphics Hack)

 

If Rampage is still a work in progress, I have a possible suggestion...

 

I didn't know there was an A8 version but apparently there is:

 

 

The character graphics are terrible and the movement looks like something the Spectrum would do but the graphics for the tank and other vehicles - not the helicopters - are really good and arguably better than the 7800 version. The music and audio SFX are also POKEY based. Those items might be worthy of pilfering for the ultimate 7800 hack of the title.

[DracIsBack]

 

That's funny. Last week I recorded an intro for my upcoming NES review of Double Dragon. Check out this picture for the review (great minds...):

dd.jpg

 

Liked the Podcast! Had no idea there were attempts to put boulder throwing into the game but cut it because of space. Wonder what else they intended but had to drop?

[MobiusAqua]

The character graphics are terrible and the movement looks like something the Spectrum would do but the graphics for the tank and other vehicles - not the helicopters - are really good and arguably better than the 7800 version. The music and audio SFX are also POKEY based. Those items might be worthy of pilfering for the ultimate 7800 hack of the title.

 

With that in mind, I wonder: how close to the arcade's music could we get, if someone tried to make a POKEY rendition, using, oh say, a combination of square, triangle and sawtooth waves? I bet the POKEY could probably do a near-perfect rendition of the theme song, and whatever the name of that song is, that plays after a certain number of rounds. Maybe that might work better, than using the POKEY audio from the Atari 8-bit version? Just a thought.

 

And sorry if I'm helping to de-rail the thread.

[DracIsBack]

After listening to this podcast, I'm thinking I might be a bit harder on the game than I should be.

 

Yes, there are still elements of "cheapness", but this seems to be more around trying to make the game fit into 128K. Hearing that there were unused animations for throwing boulders and hearing that the Abobos may have been designed first with more sprites that Title Match gave me pause to think. Also hearing that the sprites mirror the arcade suggests maybe Imagineering tried more than I always gave them credit.

 

Yeah, the sprites could have been better and the game was jerky. But as the podcast reminds, there are times in the 7800 version where there are six moving characters on the screen, which you definitely don't see in the NES and SMS version.

[nosweargamer]

 

Liked the Podcast! Had no idea there were attempts to put boulder throwing into the game but cut it because of space. Wonder what else they intended but had to drop?

 

Thanks! I might have mentioned this in the podcast, but Kevin also mentioned there was a balcony for the final battle that is never seen because the screen will not scroll far enough.

[DracIsBack]

 

Thanks! I might have mentioned this in the podcast, but Kevin also mentioned there was a balcony for the final battle that is never seen because the screen will not scroll far enough.

 

Anyone know the ROM size for the NES and SMS versions of the game?

 

Edit: Checked my archives. The SMS one looks to be twice the size of the 7800 version. Can't find the NES ROM though.

Edited December 7, 2015 by DracIsBack

[Trebor]

Anyone know the ROM size for the NES and SMS versions of the game?

 

Edit: Checked my archives. The SMS one looks to be twice the size of the 7800 version. Can't find the NES ROM though.

 

Double Dragon cart size for the NES, like SMS, is 256K; (as mentioned) double the 7800's cart size of 128K. Size is definitely a considerable factor.

 

Additionally, the skill and efficiency of the programmer/programming plays a very important role. For instance, under the 7800, RealSports Baseball is 64K, while Pete Rose Baseball is only 32K. IMHO, Pete Rose Baseball, despite being half the size, is the superior playing and looking product.

 

Gameplay balance, IMHO, is where even the SMS port falters, but the NES port handles quite well. It excellently balances the difficulty so it is fair, yet challenging and not 'cheap' throughout the entire game. A big downfall of the 7800 port of Double Dragon has to do with the very imbalanced gameplay and cheap way to either easily win or be slaughtered throughout.

 

More (256K) cart space - as well as better programming - could have led to a port of Double Dragon that was extremely well done on the 7800.

[DracIsBack]

A big downfall of the 7800 port of Double Dragon has to do with the very imbalanced gameplay and cheap way to either easily win or be slaughtered throughout.

 

More (256K) cart space - as well as better programming - could have led to a port of Double Dragon that was extremely well done on the 7800.

 

It's funny. I never had a problem playing Double Dragon. I think before I bought it, one of the reviews (Game Pro or Game Players) said that the best move was the reverse jump kick. And I mastered that and was able to beat the game dozens of times.

 

As you note, there's a lot of cheap ways to win - you can corner people against walls, off screen, you can go after the Shadow boss ignoring his cronies etc. The AI really is pretty weak and as long as you learn not to punch or kick directly too much (reverse jump kick, elbow jab, head butt) the game is actually surprisingly easy.

[8th lutz]

 

It's funny. I never had a problem playing Double Dragon. I think before I bought it, one of the reviews (Game Pro or Game Players) said that the best move was the reverse jump kick. And I mastered that and was able to beat the game dozens of times.

 

As you note, there's a lot of cheap ways to win - you can corner people against walls, off screen, you can go after the Shadow boss ignoring his cronies etc. The AI really is pretty weak and as long as you learn not to punch or kick directly too much (reverse jump kick, elbow jab, head butt) the game is actually surprisingly easy.

There is a lot truth too it. It was very easy for me to beat the game back in early 1990's on the Atari 7800.

[8th lutz]

 

Thanks! I might have mentioned this in the podcast, but Kevin also mentioned there was a balcony for the final battle that is never seen because the screen will not scroll far enough.

I never knew that before. I am willing to admit that I was too rough on the developer in this case, but my belief before didn't change in terms of the game needed to be 256k on the Atari 7800. Even it the cartridge was increased to 144k, it wouldn't have been enough in this case.

[Trebor]

It's funny. I never had a problem playing Double Dragon. I think before I bought it, one of the reviews (Game Pro or Game Players) said that the best move was the reverse jump kick. And I mastered that and was able to beat the game dozens of times.

 

As you note, there's a lot of cheap ways to win - you can corner people against walls, off screen, you can go after the Shadow boss ignoring his cronies etc. The AI really is pretty weak and as long as you learn not to punch or kick directly too much (reverse jump kick, elbow jab, head butt) the game is actually surprisingly easy.

 

Exactly, and unfortunately a prime issue with the imbalanced gameplay when mentioning...

 

...A big downfall of the 7800 port of Double Dragon has to do with the very imbalanced gameplay and cheap way to either easily win or be slaughtered throughout....

 

Playing the 7800 port there are two options: Either getting slaughtered or easily winning. Better programming could potential fix difficulty balancing, including effectiveness of standard punches/kicks from both you and the enemy. It would furnish a balanced experience and challenge.

 

As it currently plays, it is either super easy with backwards elbows, jump kicks, or head butts throughout for quick and easy victories, or ridiculously difficult with kicks and punches from you having no to little effect, yet the enemy - even the very first line of encountered opponents, can quickly diminish your health and take a life. Admittedly, the latter is a bigger issue than the former.

 

It's unfortunate that graphic hacking and additional cartridge memory alone won't fix the gameplay issues mentioned. Nonetheless, the 7800 port truly requires a build from the ground up approach, fixing not only the graphical issues, but sound, and (arguably most importantly) gameplay.