repairing nonworking optical game discs

[jd_1138]

I bought a 10 disc lot of Wii discs that were listed as untested which naturally means none worked except for one of the crappy games. Anyway the price was cheap for them. I bought one of the Monoprice disc cleaning/repair units, and it brought 3 of the discs back to life. 7 still don't work even after running them through the machine 3 times.

 

Is it pretty common for nothing to be able to bring a scratched disc back to life? Could a professional quality machine do the trick? Some of these discs look like they were used as a cat scratching post -- sheesh.

 

This is the one I bought for $18 plus $7 for s/h.

 

[Keatah]

Unless you get professional forensic grade materials and lab tools (for complete resurfacing) it'll be hit or miss. In my experience more likely miss.

 

I'm sure someone will pipe up with suggestions like 2000 grit sandpaper or toothpaste buffing followed by rain-x treatment. Sometimes the oddball fix will fill that one single troublesome scratch just perfectly and away you go.

 

To directly answer could a pro machine do the trick? Well, what advanced machines do is remove some of the surface and replace it with a fresh one. Usually .1mm or .2mm worth of material.

 

Since the polycarbonate disc surface is the final lens in the focusing mechanism, any significant changes must be handled with different wider focusing range optics. Advanced readers and recovery machines have the ability to shine the laser at angles and go under the scratches - much like an airliner slipping below the cloud deck on final approach. Landing. Then making a U-turn. And taking off in the direction from which it came.

Edited October 27, 2016 by Keatah

[akator]

I've very happy with that Monoprice disc repair machine. It has repaired 5/5 of the discs I've tried, a much better success rate that the hand-cranked SkipDr gizmo I used to use. Out of dozens of discs, at best the SkipDr worked 50% of the time and even then it require several passes before success.

 

 

Is it pretty common for nothing to be able to bring a scratched disc back to life? Could a professional quality machine do the trick?

 

 

It depends on the type and level of damage to the disc. The protective layer is only so thick. Deep scratches can damage the data layer. Even if they don't get that far, they can be so deep that removing them requires removing most of the protective layer which damages the data. Chips and deep scratches on the edges of a disc can also make it unreadable and these polishing machines can do nothing about that.

 

I used a $300 "pro" repair machine a decade ago. It did a good job on the surface scratches, but it still couldn't repair scratches that were too deep or do anything about edge damage. It was expensive to run and maintain because of the cost of polishing compounds and pads. I don't think the performance was worth hundreds of dollars more than the Monoprice machine.

[Vector]

I bought a 10 disc lot of Wii discs that were listed as untested which naturally means none worked except for one of the crappy games. Anyway the price was cheap for them. I bought one of the Monoprice disc cleaning/repair units, and it brought 3 of the discs back to life. 7 still don't work even after running them through the machine 3 times.

 

Is it pretty common for nothing to be able to bring a scratched disc back to life? Could a professional quality machine do the trick? Some of these discs look like they were used as a cat scratching post -- sheesh.

 

This is the one I bought for $18 plus $7 for s/h.

 

 

For resurfacing I have used since 2010 a ZDAG 101 I imported. They sell a newer model, currently. The machine is about $150, for my purposes it has paid for itself. Since it's basically is a smaller version of a commercial machine, which is what I wanted (I was using a commercial machine at work until it broke, and it was not replaced). It also uses the same products to "remove" the layer of plastic that has the scratch. Which is what a commercial machine does, and with either machine you can actually take too much plastic off and ruin the disc. The ZDAG is my work horse, I have over the years developed techniques with run time, and work flow with the resurfacing products that has enabled me to fix hundreds of discs. If you have a lot of disc's to resurface, I couldn't recommend it enough. I will say that the instructions were not all that great, but over time I learned run times for specific damage through trial and error. If you do decide to purchase this machine, since it is not a consumer product - the instructions assume you have some prior knowledge of resurfacing. The instructions may have changed, but these are my tips for the machine:

 

- The instructions (in 2010) failed to mention what the green and clear discs are for. They are needed to raise the disc by a mm to assist with deep scratches. Do not throw them out.

- Do not use the same pads for different creams. Certain creams (have sand in them) are for stripping plastic, others are for polishing. If you mix and match, or don't wipe off enough of cream 1 when you polish. It will leave swirls on the surface. Though the disc will still work.

- Look at the disc through a light, to see if there is any top damage to the disc. If there is missing disc material, then resurfacing won't fix the disc. The top of the disc protect the wafer with only a label or sticker.

- Blu Ray may not be fixed with this machine, you may need to look into that. It will fix the Wii disc's you mentioned. I have also been able using only one pad to fix Gamecube games with this machine.

 

Car polishes, and consumer products may only fix superficial scratches. Essentially the end result will make it so that the laser doesn't become displaced by fragmenting once it hits a scratch. Which is why Skip Doctors make the disc look like crap, but can often make some discs work again.

[godslabrat]

TAKE IT TO A PROFESSIONAL.

 

I'm sorry, that might have been too forward. Let me re-phrase that.

 

TAKE IT TO A PROFESSIONAL.

 

... No, that's probably too vague. I'll try again.

 

TAKE IT TO A PROFESSIONAL.

 

If you need to have an optical disc repaired, then it's worth getting in the car and driving to a place that has a machine that can actually do the job, and do it right, for under $5. Their machines are way better than anything you'll ever own, and for a reason. The Disc Doctors you're getting for $19.99 are more likely to do more damage, and it's ultimately more money out of your pocket.

 

TAKE IT TO A PROFESSIONAL.

 

Want a second opinion?

[Vector]

TAKE IT TO A PROFESSIONAL.

 

I'm sorry, that might have been too forward. Let me re-phrase that.

 

TAKE IT TO A PROFESSIONAL.

 

... No, that's probably too vague. I'll try again.

 

TAKE IT TO A PROFESSIONAL.

 

If you need to have an optical disc repaired, then it's worth getting in the car and driving to a place that has a machine that can actually do the job, and do it right, for under $5. Their machines are way better than anything you'll ever own, and for a reason. The Disc Doctors you're getting for $19.99 are more likely to do more damage, and it's ultimately more money out of your pocket.

 

TAKE IT TO A PROFESSIONAL.

 

Want a second opinion?

 

Yes your point may hold more water when referring to a damaged disc here and there, however what we are discussing is having a machine handy for cheap Wii games, and handling a lot of discs. At $4-6 a pop that doesn't make sense for our situations, especially when about 20% of the time damaged discs are not repairable. That's wasted money when you handle a lot of damaged discs and can buy a machine for that replicates the same process for $200.

 

What I can say regarding my experience with my machine (The $150 ZDAG 101 described above - which I wouldn't recommend unless you do a lot of resurfacing at all), is that it has given me the latitude to purchase damaged discs. Also and this is the big one; I can resurface Gamecube games, since my machine allows me to remove one buffering spindle. I can buff down smaller discs. None of the commercial machines over $500 we could find can do that (we stopped looking in 2014, so maybe it exists now). My local game shop would even send me Gamecube games to resurface, and still does to this day. On a side note lets not forget about portions of the population that are not with in driving distance to a business that offers a service that is starting disappear more and more.

 

If you only need to resurface a few discs that are valuable then your suggestion is the way to go, you are 100% correct. However our discussion is the difference between needing a truck and a compact car. A compact car is great for all around daily use and is cheaper to own / operate - makes sense for most urban dwellers. However some people own a boat, and take it out every weekend in the Summer. So rather then renting a truck 20 times a year every time we want to take out the boat, its easier and cheaper to just buy a truck. Every one's situation has different needs, and our needs don't represent most of the gamer's out there. Just like most people in my neighbor hood drive sedans, because they don't have to tow a boat like I do.

[cybercylon]

Look for any pin holes were you can see right through the disc. Those won't be worth your time trying to fix.

[Keatah]

Maybe the discs just need debuffing?

[HoshiChiri]

I've been curious about this myself- I've got a copy of Mark of the Wolves on DC that doesn't run. Thing is, it looks great- I imagine some sort of heat damage. I've read boiling the discs can help, but I'm really torn on that. On the one hand, I'd hate to screw up a rare disc with a weird technique. On the other, it doesn't bloody work now, so it's hardly valuable, is it?

[Vector]

I've been curious about this myself- I've got a copy of Mark of the Wolves on DC that doesn't run. Thing is, it looks great- I imagine some sort of heat damage. I've read boiling the discs can help, but I'm really torn on that. On the one hand, I'd hate to screw up a rare disc with a weird technique. On the other, it doesn't bloody work now, so it's hardly valuable, is it?

Do not boil discs. It will warp the disc (or warp it more), and can damage it further in a variety of ways. The wafer that contains all those 1's and 0's that is only protected by a thin sticker/label from the top (thick plastic layer on the bottom). Water will damage the label and possibly your pan as well.

If you don't see pin holes through the disc (which is good, no information is missing). Then look from the center of the disc very closely for any damage. Discs are read by the optical laser from the center first (for almost all applications and disc formats) if the disc does not load start looking closely from the center of the disc to the outer edge. Use a magnify glass if you have one.

 

Sometimes a disc will look perfect and not load, about 15% of the time I get them to work after buffing in my ZDAG 101 buffer. That's not a good percentage, but if the disc is valuable then it may be worth the gamble. There can be small fractures not seen by the human eye that are causing the laser to fragment when reading the disc. Other possible issues could be disc rot (sometimes only seen on the microscopic level), its unlikely in your case. In even rarer circumstances I have had discs ever so slightly warped (or other undetermined damage), that would work in some Dreamcasts/GameCubes/Wii's and not others. For a multitude of reasons that are too many to delve into. Trying in another Dreamcast maybe another option. Let us know if you have any luck.

[HoshiChiri]

I know one other person with a Dreamcast, so I'll have to run it over to her place sometime.

 

Trick is, her BF is a die-hard fighting game junkie, so if it works on theirs I might not get it back!

[Vector]

I know one other person with a Dreamcast, so I'll have to run it over to her place sometime.

 

Trick is, her BF is a die-hard fighting game junkie, so if it works on theirs I might not get it back!

Well if your game is commandeered you may need to visit another thread to resolve that problem

 

If it still doesn't work bring it somewhere to get resurfaced. It maybe worth the gamble.

[Video]

Mostly it will depend on what is damaged. The clear plastic disc itself isn't really important, it can be pretty banged up and is still possible to bring it back with a good pro machine like one that will actually 'resurface' the disc. If it's more lightly scratched, then a home machine can possibly fix it, a pro machine that basically strips the outer layer off can do a better job, it's the same thing just a finer grit abrasive.

 

If the label side of the disc is damaged, then there's probably no helping it, the data layer is right under the label and if the data layer gets nicked then it's probably screwed.

 

Hold it up to the light, if you can see light come though where it's scratched it's probably hopeless. If it's got small pinholes, then it's kinda hit or miss.

[HoshiChiri]

I found the disc the other day- still looks fine held up to a light, EXCEPT- I decided to grab a small, ultra bright LED flashlight I've got and go over the disc very carefully.

 

 

DAMMIT!

 

You can only see it with this tiny flashlight right up against the disc, it's right on the edge and it's only 3mm-ish long... but it's definitely a full-through scratch. I'll keep it around anyway- maybe the next time I hit up a used game store I'll see if I can get a freebie refinishing (on the off chance it's not important data & might still run with a good buffing.) Otherwise I'll use it for décor/craft material/let somebody destroy it for a youtube video to watch the fanboys scream.

[RARusk]

Isn't the data layer made of aluminum or some other metal? If so is it possible to run the disc through a small magnetic field and read the minor fluctuations for the ones and zeros to at least make an archival copy to later put onto SD Cards and the like? Or would scratches in the plastic interfere with that too?

[Osgeld]

I have a copy of "Conker Live and Reloaded" that at some point someone thought it was bad enough to run though one of those "disc doctor" gizmo's which I never had luck with

 

most of the ones I tried litterly burned the plastic in one spot, the live and reloaded disc has a nice burned spyrograph pattern on the surface of the disk and of course is ruined

 

I had the local game store run it though their good machine and it cleared up a bunch, so I had them run it a couple more times, but the pattern is still there and it still wont boot.... so at this point I am considering breaking out the 2000 grit sandpaper and go up from there with rubbing compounds and my lapping plate

 

as K pointed out someone would mention 2000 grit sandpaper, but its not to fix scratches, its to sand off the burnt layer back to something evenly scratched that can be polished back as they are not super deep, just uniform brun marks that whatever the polishing machines are using, are not removing

Edited April 5, 2017 by Osgeld

[Rick Dangerous]

Unless you get professional forensic grade materials and lab tools (for complete resurfacing) it'll be hit or miss. In my experience more likely miss.

 

Discs are fickle frail creatures...good luck...but don't hold your breath. Once the scratch is deep enough (to the data layer) there is no bringing them back.