barrelsAndRivets Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 (edited) Hopefully somebody can help me save my 4-port 5200. In short, I don't get a power light (nor any audio/video from the console). I don't think it's the power brick, nor do I think it's the switch box, though I could be wrong It seems power is getting to the board, though my understanding of this hardware is letting me down. Here is what I've gathered with my multimeter: - AC adapter (end) - 15.22v - Switchbox game out - 14.94v - RF solder point on mobo - 14.34v - Internal RF out on mobo- 14.36v - VR1 - nothing on any of the 3 pins - VR2 - nothing on any of the 3 pins - 4013 (CD4013BE): I wasn't sure how to number the pins so here's a crude drawing: Finally, here is an album on imgur with some hopefully useful pics: http://imgur.com/a/L1fHd I'm not sure how to proceed next. Please let me know if this combination of observations makes my issue immediately obvious, or if there are additional things I can/should check. Thanks so much in advance! Edited May 31, 2017 by barrelsAndRivets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SignGuy81 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 (edited) Try this page 22 http://kickass.ddnss.org/html/library/documents/5200FSM.pdf That's 22 of the actual PDF file, it is 2-4B listed on the bottom of the page. Check the emitter voltage on Q6 and Q7 and write back. Edited May 31, 2017 by SignGuy81 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SignGuy81 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 (edited) Here is the datasheet for those transistors if you want the pin arrangement. http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/23319/STMICROELECTRONICS/MJE210.html Looking at front of transistor though the emitter is the left pin. Look for any cracked solder joints on the board leading up to the voltage regulators. Edited May 31, 2017 by SignGuy81 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SignGuy81 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 (edited) Are you positive that you have nothing on all 3 pins of VR2? Because looking at the schematic you shouldn't have anything on pin 14 of the 4013 IC if you don't(I didn't like the way that was worded so edit, you are supposed to have voltage there I mean that if you do you should definitely have it on pin 1 of VR2 as long as there are no cracked solder joints). That trace coming from there(far left pin of that 7805) leads all the way down to the collector of Q7, which is where pin 14 of that IC gets the voltage from when the transistor is switched on. That is the unregulated supply you have there which you are supposed to, which is funny because you don't have it on the first pin of VR2. I would make sure that the solder joints aren't cracked around those joints at VR2 because that would make since for you not having the voltage on those pins but still have the unregulated supply on the IC as you mentioned. EDIT: Just ignore all that above it is nonsense I paid more attention to the schematic this time. That gets its power from the RF cable, I didn't realize that, never worked on a 5200 before. That line I was talking about was thinking that was incoming unregulated from a power adapter but was actually outgoing unregulated from that spot so I had it all backwards(hence the black arrow instead of the circle, I didn't catch that the first time). So instead go back to checking those transistor voltages Q6 and Q7 like I was originally thinking. I would still look over those solder joints real good. I think the problem may be one of the transistors or that flip flop IC may be bad. Edited May 31, 2017 by SignGuy81 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SignGuy81 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 (edited) Bad info edited to remove. Edited May 31, 2017 by SignGuy81 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SignGuy81 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 (edited) So now looking closer I can go over a little how it is supposed to supply the unregulated supply to the regulators. Q9 and Q8 are both NPNs and they need to have a positive base to be turned on, and Q9 gets that signal from the 4013 from pin 13. And when Q9 is turned on it switches Q8 on. And Q8 when switched on switches ground to the base of Q7 which is a PNP transistor to switch it on which allows the unregulated supply(coming from the RF cord) to go into the input of VR2. Since pin 13 has no voltage I would say that could be your problem right there. There is a little more too it also though looking at the schematic you have something labeled CI 1 and CI 2 which will also determine the states of VR2 and VR1 but I have no clue what that CI(i not 1) means. Either way the problem is probably stemming from the 4013 chip because pin 13 has to be on for it to work. Try flipping S2(power) back and forth a few times it could be bad switch connection. Edit: I found a better schematic and found CI1 and CI2 are from cartridge connector. I don't think they are your issue though I think it is either the switch S2(power) from the schematic I showed you on the PDF or the 4013 chip. Basically CI1 and CI2 are not connected until you put a cartridge in, and when you do put a cartridge in they are connected, allowing power to base of Q6 which allows the unregulated supply to VR1. Basically VR2 can be powered with no cart but VR1 must have a cart. Edited May 31, 2017 by SignGuy81 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SignGuy81 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 (edited) If the 4013 chip is socketed I would remove the chip and jump temporarily between where pins 13 and pin 10 were, leaving the chip out. This will safely apply power through a 8.2k ohm resistor to the base of the transistor(Q9) and should turn the unit on. The way you had your chip laid out earlier would be from bottom left 1, working counter clockwise to top left is pin 14. The half circle on the chip shows where you start on the left side. Edited May 31, 2017 by SignGuy81 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SignGuy81 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-x-CD4013-4013-IC-CMOS-DUAL-D-FLIP-FLOP-TEXAS-/322171836246?hash=item4b02f01756:g:UCcAAOxydlFSvc2q Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrelsAndRivets Posted May 31, 2017 Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 If the 4013 chip is socketed I would remove the chip and jump temporarily between where pins 13 and pin 10 were, leaving the chip out. This will safely apply power through a 8.2k ohm resistor to the base of the transistor(Q9) and should turn the unit on. The way you had your chip laid out earlier would be from bottom left 1, working counter clockwise to top left is pin 14. The half circle on the chip shows where you start on the left side. Thanks so much for the research and quick replies. Choosing to reply to this one only because it's the newest. Unfortunately I think the fuse just blew in my power supply. As I was reading the multimeter, with everything plugged in, I heard a few soft pops. Now, I'm getting reads of 0.6 - 0.7v on everything: - Adapter end - Internal RF solder point - Internal female RF jack Still nothing on VR1 or VR2, though I captured the following: - Q6: 0.7 on pins 1 and 3 - Q7: 0.7 on pins 1 and 3 - S2 (R62?): 0.7 on the two pins towards the back of the console. Nothing from the bottom-two pins. So after popping this fuse (which I do not have another at the moment), I can only assume that current reads of 0.6 - 0.7v are on-par with 13-14v. The 4013 chip is in fact socketed, I think that's simple enough to jump assuming I can find some wire. I do have another power adapter in storage though, that i'll be able to pick up in a few days or so. While I wait on that (getting other power adapter, and gathering solder supplies), do you have any observations on those findings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrelsAndRivets Posted May 31, 2017 Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 And honestly, being that the 4013 is such an easy and cheap replacement, I might just pick up a few as you suggested and try that! I have to wait a few days anyway.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SignGuy81 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 (edited) And honestly, being that the 4013 is such an easy and cheap replacement, I might just pick up a few as you suggested and try that! I have to wait a few days anyway.. Yeah that would be best thing to do. I know before you had power on pin 14, and I'm trying to think of anything that could cause a problem with pin 13 no being on turning on the transistor, and the things to check are that IC 4013, after that I would check Q10, and also check those caps C47, C49 and C50. All things that are part of that circuit. The power switch too. And do ohms check on all the resistors on that part of the circuit make sure none are open. Edited May 31, 2017 by SignGuy81 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrelsAndRivets Posted June 4, 2017 Author Share Posted June 4, 2017 Yeah that would be best thing to do. I know before you had power on pin 14, and I'm trying to think of anything that could cause a problem with pin 13 no being on turning on the transistor, and the things to check are that IC 4013, after that I would check Q10, and also check those caps C47, C49 and C50. All things that are part of that circuit. The power switch too. And do ohms check on all the resistors on that part of the circuit make sure none are open. Thank you so much for the help. Replacing the 4013 did the trick! Everything is working great! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SignGuy81 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Glad you got it working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari-dna Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 If you no longer want or need the power brick with the blown fuse, I would gladly accept it through the mail. I can rebuild it, I have the diodes (if the bridge is gone) and the pigtail fuse needed to bring it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zylon Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Thank you so much for the help. Replacing the 4013 did the trick! Everything is working great! Since that failed, next item in line is the little IC inside the switchbox. I believe it's LM193. Very cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrelsAndRivets Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 Since that failed, next item in line is the little IC inside the switchbox. I believe it's LM193. Very cheap. I think you've got this confused with another topic -- My 5200 is working perfectly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrelsAndRivets Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 If you no longer want or need the power brick with the blown fuse, I would gladly accept it through the mail. I can rebuild it, I have the diodes (if the bridge is gone) and the pigtail fuse needed to bring it back. Planning to hang onto it for now. I've opened it up and the fuse actually looks OK, so I'm wondering what else may be wrong with it. It's not taking up too much space, so I'll probably circle back to it at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zylon Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 I think you've got this confused with another topic -- My 5200 is working perfectly Nope. it's just the next common cheap IC to fail. Merely offering a heads up, that's all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrelsAndRivets Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 Nope. it's just the next common cheap IC to fail. Merely offering a heads up, that's all. Good to know! Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari-dna Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Planning to hang onto it for now. I've opened it up and the fuse actually looks OK, so I'm wondering what else may be wrong with it. It's not taking up too much space, so I'll probably circle back to it at some point. Test it for continuity, it may look fine and still be open. It may be in a pigtail package and soldered to the PCB. Check at those connections. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endor16 Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 continuing rather than adding a net new. i have 4 port console 100% verified power supply works and old stock new RF box works. tested both on multimeter. i have no power to board at all. is it possible the rf cable that brings power to the board is bad? tested where the rf cable is soldered on board. no voltage. tested the q/6, q7, 4103, vr1, vr2 all no power with cart in and out, same results. the other rf port on the board, can that be used rather than the one that is soldered on? also tested q8, 9 and 10 all with no power. if power stops at the cable to the board then i am thinking that is my culprit? thoughts and thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 2 hours ago, endor16 said: continuing rather than adding a net new. i have 4 port console 100% verified power supply works and old stock new RF box works. tested both on multimeter. i have no power to board at all. is it possible the rf cable that brings power to the board is bad? tested where the rf cable is soldered on board. no voltage. tested the q/6, q7, 4103, vr1, vr2 all no power with cart in and out, same results. the other rf port on the board, can that be used rather than the one that is soldered on? also tested q8, 9 and 10 all with no power. if power stops at the cable to the board then i am thinking that is my culprit? thoughts and thanks in advance. Do you hear the relay click when you attempt to power on the console? It is easy enough to check the RF cable. It is just a long length of coax so you should get continuity from the center post to the point where that is soldered to the main board near the upright RCA jack you noticed. Likewise the out ring or shield of the RCA on the RF cable will have continuity with the ground on the 5200 main board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endor16 Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 cant say i can hear a relay click. But at the control box i am getting constant 12v. when i trace that to the main board i have no power there. can i use the upright jack with another cable to test? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 15 minutes ago, endor16 said: cant say i can hear a relay click. But at the control box i am getting constant 12v. when i trace that to the main board i have no power there. can i use the upright jack with another cable to test? I would advise against that. But you should be hearing a click from the switch box when the power button is pressed. Where are you measuring the voltage on the switch box from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endor16 Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 Just now, -^CrossBow^- said: I would advise against that. But you should be hearing a click from the switch box when the power button is pressed. Where are you measuring the voltage on the switch box from? measuring the switch box on the game in port Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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