JamesD Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 They list the tech that's going to be in this thing like it's going to be a powerful machine... and then make it so small there isn't room for a heat sink.Unless it's a lot bigger than it looks (which would also be a no for me), it's just another Raspberry Pi type machine.I can buy a used thin client that powerful off of ebay for $20. Lots of new ones are under $100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlecRob Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Just wait, people will have Windows running on ataribox in no time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaguarandine Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Whenever I here people say that Linux has improved for gaming. I look at my Steam and GOG libraries. Out of nearly 500 games I roughly have twice as many are Mac OS compatible (81) than are Linux compatible (42). Hell I have more games that are XP compatible! Linux is great for tasks like web-browsing, e-mails or Open Office. But gaming, LOL! I've been hearing that Linux is the future for over 20 years, and it hasn't happened yet. And I bet it never will. Looking at Steam, there are thousands of titles compatible with Linux, which is a dramatic shift from just a few years ago. Linux support is much better than it has ever been. Much of the credit for that goes to Valve, who for their own reasons, has been hedging their bets against Microsoft and Windows (so not purely for the love of Linux, but that's ok). This can only get better in the future. Speaking on Mac specifically, Mac's larger marketshare has caused it to get more games than Linux (and rightly so). That was with Open GL though. It remains to be seen if developers will embrace the Metal API. OTOH, Vulkan adoption has been slow, but there are several noteworthy titles using it right now (Linux support notwithstanding). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaguarandine Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 My complaint isn't with the specs. It's with the price. The price is going to kill this thing. I don't see how they can justify $250-$300 for what we have seen and been told so far about what it can do. It would be much better if it were released early spring while people are just getting their tax refunds back so they have money to throw away on things they don't need, as apposed to releasing in late spring. Keep in mind that I don't have high hopes for this console, but what are your expectations? I'm expecting it to be more powerful than the Nintendo Switch; for a crowd-funded console this price seems fairly reasonable. Obviously if it's under-powered then the price doesn't make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBerel Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 They list the tech that's going to be in this thing like it's going to be a powerful machine... and then make it so small there isn't room for a heat sink. Unless it's a lot bigger than it looks (which would also be a no for me), it's just another Raspberry Pi type machine. I can buy a used thin client that powerful off of ebay for $20. Lots of new ones are under $100. Provided this in the other thread already. This is the most likely innards of the Ataribox if it makes it far enough to be a prototype. Mind you, these have been on the market since early 2015, so it's already old tech. http://www.fit-pc.co...LET-GI-C67-WACB http://linuxgizmos.c...d-core-amd-soc/ https://www.amazon.c...#productDetails 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StopDrop&Retro Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Keep in mind that I don't have high hopes for this console, but what are your expectations? I'm expecting it to be more powerful than the Nintendo Switch; for a crowd-funded console this price seems fairly reasonable. Obviously if it's under-powered then the price doesn't make sense. The average consumer rarely cares about "power" because it's such an abstract term. They care about what games will appear on a console. We know that Ataribox wants to play indies but won't play AAA games. Because of that, I don't think Ataribox is trying to capitalize on the NES/SNES classic, I suspect they're trying to copy the Switch. The Switch doesn't play the latest and greatest games but it's getting tons of indies (including Minecraft and Terraria already) and even a few detuned ports of AAA games like Doom. You can get the Switch for nearly the same price as the Ataribox, but you get all the added advantages of portability and buying a modern console from a big 3 manufacturer risk [read: crowdfunding] free. You can also make the argument that if you're trying to go after the 'retro' crowd, the Nintendo name alone has vastly more retro appeal than Atari/Coleco/Intellivision/etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaguarandine Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Provided this in the other thread already. This is the most likely innards of the Ataribox if it makes it far enough to be a prototype. Mind you, these have been on the market since early 2015, so it's already old tech. http://www.fit-pc.co...LET-GI-C67-WACB http://linuxgizmos.c...d-core-amd-soc/ https://www.amazon.c...#productDetails If this is the case, then we're looking at a console less powerful than the Switch. To me, that doesn't seem worth the price. The average consumer rarely cares about "power" because it's such an abstract term. They care about what games will appear on a console. We know that Ataribox wants to play indies but won't play AAA games. Because of that, I don't think Ataribox is trying to capitalize on the NES/SNES classic, I suspect they're trying to copy the Switch. The Switch doesn't play the latest and greatest games but it's getting tons of indies (including Minecraft and Terraria already) and even a few detuned ports of AAA games like Doom. You can get the Switch for nearly the same price as the Ataribox, but you get all the added advantages of portability and buying a modern console from a big 3 manufacturer risk [read: crowdfunding] free. You can also make the argument that if you're trying to go after the 'retro' crowd, the Nintendo name alone has vastly more retro appeal than Atari/Coleco/Intellivision/etc. I agree with mostly you on power. At the end of the day, it's alway about the games. However, a console manufacturer has to put themselves in a position to succeed, so specs do still matter. There are certain expectations, especially if you're placing your product in a specific price bracket. Assuming the above specs are correct, then the Ataribox should cost around $50-$100 less. Otherwise given what we know, there doesn't seem to be enough value here to justify a purchase. The indie focus sounds very interesting. I don't think the Nintendo Switch comparison works though. The Switch is a proprietary standard, backed by the single most prolific game developer in the world, with good indie and third-party support starting to appear. The Ataribox is open, and hopes to tap into the existing market for Steam. With Atari's large catalog of classic IPs, they are almost certainly going after the retro crowd as well, and probably the homebrew and emulator communities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godslabrat Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 I truly don't think they're selling on AAA titles, indies, services, Linux, steam, or anything else other than a bunch of people wanting to be able to say "I GOT ME A BRAND-NEW ATARI! Ain't I cool?" The question is, what's the dollar value on hipster brag rights? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 (edited) I used to place a dollar amount on bragging rights. Not anymore. Not in the past 10 or 15 years. Also, hyping the specs of a console doesn't matter much to me now. It did back in the 1970's and 1980's when specs made a difference. With three sound channels/voices vs 1 there was a noticeable difference. But with today's 32 channels vs 36 or even 48, the perceived difference is minimal. Or with 2 billion colors vs 1 billion colors. Whoopteedoo. They're gonna look the same, and I'll decide based not on that, but on content and gameplay. And today hardware is so underutilized and bogged down with bloated APIs it doesn't matter. More specs simply means more bloat. Edited October 1, 2017 by Keatah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBerel Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Those SOC PCs mentioned above are the same spec as mentioned in their press so far, and their retail price point puts it right in the noted selling price. Honestly, I'll be surprised if the folks involved can produce a prototype with those specs to realistically sell for the suggested price. They sure aren't going higher spec. They're taking somebody else's gear, slapping it in their own project box and marking it up. You also got to remember that traditional console manufacturers sell their hardware as a loss leader and recoup costs on the software sales. Atari can't begin to do that because they almost certainly have nothing lined up by way of licensed titles that can be expected to recoup subsidized hardware sales. They have an old catalog that's been sold so many times it's an impulse bargain bin purchase now. That's part of the reason to go this amateur crowd funding route. Reduced risk, responsibility, support, and delivery commitments are the rest of the equation. God help their backers. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBerel Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Also on the software side, you can see the thought, or lack of, they put into their game watch. It never occurred to them that maybe a 1" screen ain't the place for video games. They can't even make pong work on it. This is the same team people think have a bunch of new software titles hidden up their sleeves. The only thing this group has given the world in the last several years was Denny's Hasteroids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Those SOC PCs mentioned above are the same spec as mentioned in their press so far, and their retail price point puts it right in the noted selling price. Honestly, I'll be surprised if the folks involved can produce a prototype with those specs to realistically sell for the suggested price. They sure aren't going higher spec. They're taking somebody else's gear, slapping it in their own project box and marking it up. You also got to remember that traditional console manufacturers sell their hardware as a loss leader and recoup costs on the software sales. Atari can't begin to do that because they almost certainly have nothing lined up by way of licensed titles that can be expected to recoup subsidized hardware sales. They have an old catalog that's been sold so many times it's an impulse bargain bin purchase now. That's part of the reason to go this amateur crowd funding route. Reduced risk, responsibility, support, and delivery commitments are the rest of the equation. God help their backers. Sounds like a formula that's being beat to death. Over and over and over again. Because everyone in marketing is under the illusion that the internet can bring 10 billion prospective customers to them if they "do this one thing". Whatever that thing may be. Whatever is in style at the moment. Kickstarter and the internet just amplify those delusions. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Also on the software side, you can see the thought, or lack of, they put into their game watch. It never occurred to them that maybe a 1" screen ain't the place for video games. They can't even make pong work on it. This is the same team people think have a bunch of new software titles hidden up their sleeves. The only thing this group has given the world in the last several years was Denny's Hasteroids. The hype machine of the internet does nothing to bring a dose of reality and practicality to such projects. And when the internet makes even a feeble attempt to point out stupidity it is instantly pushed into yet another corner of said internet. Like I say, the internet is the world's biggest bullshit generator. And recently, hype amplifier. Too bad the internet has little or no filtering. For if it did we wouldn't be putting up with all the bullshit, ataribox, or any other kickstarter mini-video-game-box-gadget thing. As far as that one-inch screen goes..maybe in the Dick Tracy or Casio watch/calculator era it might have been interesting. But the people that are going to be interested in classic gaming on it have eyesight so bad they can't tell the difference between a Silver Dollar and a paper Dollar. heh. and the current crowd of mobile gamers do it all on their smartphones. But you can't blame the promoters of such ridiculous gadgetry. The tech industry thrives on the bullshit promises and the internet encourages it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoRacer Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 I hate the show, but Family Guy was on last night. Brian and Stewie decided to open a business with Frank Sinatra Jr. Brian and Stewie asked how he was able to get the money for the place so quick. He said, "I started a Kickstarter like everyone's doing this days. Nah, I went to a bank and got a loan like normal people". I think it was the first time I've laughed from a Family Guy episode in years. That said, I immediately thought of this project and others like it (Coleco...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Whenever I here people say that Linux has improved for gaming. I look at my Steam and GOG libraries. Out of nearly 500 games I roughly have twice as many are Mac OS compatible (81) than are Linux compatible (42). Hell I have more games that are XP compatible! Linux is great for tasks like web-browsing, e-mails or Open Office. But gaming, LOL! I've been hearing that Linux is the future for over 20 years, and it hasn't happened yet. And I bet it never will. Linux isn't the future, it's the present. It beat Windows in many, many areas that MS was trying to compete for. Yes it doesn't rule the desktop, but that's like the one thing it didn't accomplish. Even many servers in Microsoft's Azure cloud run Linux. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Microsoft will never let Linux evolve to a point where it's a threat to Windows. They're even on the board or some kinda committee that directs Linux. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBerel Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 (edited) After looking at their game watch crowd funding pitch again, I'm totally in! (kidding)... Really, I'm wondering how they are getting away with 2 crowd fundings on the same bad idea. They have run one on Idiegogo and claim to have raised 338K. Then they turn around and run on Kickstarter with 325K raised. In their "required" prototype demonstration on Kickstarter, they show all their various models (powered off) with people acting busy, then they "demonstrate" basically nothing but the operation of a Chinese smartwatch using a completely different round model nothing like the ones they are supposedly prototyping. Is this con-artist multitasking at work? WTF?? Why this is relevant to the Ataribox is this: We know it's the same grifter developer doing both, as he did their gameband scam. The Ataribox grift, er crowdfunding, will start right about when they close their game watch window. They say they're using Indiegogo, but what's to stop them milking their marks on Kickstarter again also? They will be asking dumb people to back their new box at the same time they are, most likely, dropping the ball on both the prior crowdfunding pitches for the watch. When things play out on the watch, and folks get backers remorse, does that have any impact on their next scam? Edited October 2, 2017 by JBerel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Re Microsoft and Linux -- there's this https://www.guidingtech.com/62288/microsoft-invests-in-linux/ Half a million is chump change for an organization their size. They are investing a lot more into Android (which pays them every time someone buys an Android phone) and iOS ... I see their involvement in Linux Foundation as hedging their bets. There's enough room in the world for lots of diversity, it's not a zero-sum game, even on the desktop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 After looking at their game watch crowd funding pitch again, I'm totally in! (kidding)... Really, I'm wondering how they are getting away with 2 crowd fundings on the same bad idea. They're baffling you with bullshit. And the internet says it's ok. And people aren't thinking critically - a skill that is rapidly fading. Put those three things together and any kind of klusterfuck on kickstarter can happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBerel Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 I see now that the Indiegogo support includes the support from Kickstarter. So they start begging on one and move to the other??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoRacer Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Can we start hedging bets on whether or not this thing will ever hit production? I got 5 bucks on "not". 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadClot Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 (edited) A few more shower thoughts on the Atari Box mainly on the system specs side of things and the scam bit that people are saying that it is. First off the scam bit. Big Name companies are backing or Supporting the Atari box. Either Directly or Indirectly. 1. The CEO of AMD came out and said that they (AMD) are proud to be working with Atari on a new Semi custom design powered by Radeon Graphics. [Link to the tweet] 2. Mixer - A Streaming company owned by Microsoft tweeted this out a while back. [Link to the Tweet]. 3. The Atari logo is going to be in the movie Blade Runner 2049. They probably got some major money from this to help the development of the Atari box and other projects going on at Atari. 4. Atari is working with other companies. From the speaker hat to the Atari Box itself. The list goes on. I know that people are comparing this to the Coleco Chameleon. But that was shady from the start. In my mind the Atari box at least deserves a chance before being called a scam. I would also like to point out that they are building allot of long term relationships for the Atari box and the Atari brand in general. They cannot afford to screw over their partners at this time other wise it would be catastrophic for Atari in general in the long run. System Specs - Atari do not plan to compete with the XB1 and PS4. For the most part I believe them. However one thing that the OUYA or early Steam Machines did not have during their life time was Low Level APIs like Vulkan. I strongly think that the Atari box is going to have a semi custom Bristol Ridge or Summit Ridge SoC. This would explain the early 2018 launch for the Atari box in my mind. For those who do not under stand what Low level APIs allow consoles to do. I would encourage you to watch the following video comparing performance of Vulkan to OpenGLES. Vulkan = Games that perform much better on low to medium end devices like android phones or an AMD semi custom SoC for example. Everything that Atari has done so far has a very clear idea of where the Atari Box is going. Just me being objective about the whole thing. - HeadClot Edited October 3, 2017 by HeadClot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Can we start hedging bets on whether or not this thing will ever hit production? I got 5 bucks on "not". I wouldnt take that bet with YOUR money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadClot Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Can we start hedging bets on whether or not this thing will ever hit production? I got 5 bucks on "not". Not nearly high enough for my tastes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Back in the 1970's and 1980's things just kinda came out. We'd go to the store and get new cartridges and life was good. Today there's all this bullshit and irrelevant talk (read that as noise) floating about. And none of it has to do with game playing or even collecting! Buncha old guys blowing hot air and bandying the atari logo around. And the internet drops its collective jaw on the floor everytime something gets said.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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