Atari 2600 4 switch, revision 12 "refresh kit" issues.

[RamrodHare]

OK. I have a 4 switch board, revision 12 with a standard AV mod. Everything was working fine, but the color wasn't great, so I decided to "refresh" the board. I got the complete 2600 kit from Console5.com and I have installed everything except the two polystyrene capacitors (for the audio) , but I ran into an issue when installing the zener diodes and their caps. Here's what Console5 said on their site-

 

"Pre-Revision 14: A pair of zener diodes and capacitors used for static protection on the trigger lines (J202 & J203). Equivalent to service parts CA018263.

• Each small yellow .1uf cap is soldered across each zener diode. Each diode/cap combo is then soldered with the diode's stripe end connected to joystick port Pin 6 and the opposite side to the nearest ground plane."

I wasn't 100% sure how to do what they were saying, since it seemed odd, considering how hard it is to get to pin 6 from the top of the board and they didn't mention if these went on the bottom of the board like the 820 ohm resistor for better colors..

 

I then referred to these instructions in the field service manual-

 

"Install the static modification on all 2600 units. Install CR202 and CR203 ( that's what they call the zener/cap combo), by removing C236 and C237 and inserting the C236/CR202 and C237/CR203 assemblies in their place (See Figure 3-2). CAUTION: Observe the polarity on CR202 and CR203 (the dark band must be toward the J202/J203 connectors)."

 

I did exactly that, but when I powered the system up, I didn't get a picture. When I checked the voltages on the regulator, it was EXTREMELY low only around 3 volts going in and only 1 volt coming out. I knew something was wrong, so I removed both of little zener-cap packs (whatever you want to call it) and powered it up again, everything checked out and picture was back. So, I tried to follow the trace from pin 6 and see which side needed the Black stripe of the zener on it. From what I could tell, it was right the first time, but I knew that didn't work, so I gambled, reversed it and tried again. The regulator is showing the correct voltages and the joysticks and fire buttons work, everything seems right, but those zeners are reversed from what both instructions say. I decided to search for a photo online showing how someone else soldered theirs in and I came up with nothing.

So, I started wondering if only the 6 switchers needed this, since my 4 switch doesn't have a CD4050 IC (which the site suggested I order also, for 50 cents) and based on everything I've read, that's what the static effects. If that's the case, you would think they would have made it clear somewhere that all of this was only for 6 switchers.

 

My question is this, should I remove the zener diode packs and replace them with the original components or leave them as is, even if they are installed reversed?

 

Now, that was my BIG issue, so for some smaller issues.

With the new parts, I now have much better color and picture quality , mostly. I'm testing on an HDTV, since it's all I have availible right this minute (I'll have access to my CRT later tonight) My issue is this,

I now have a bright purple line that runs down the far left side of the screen and a dark green line that runs down the very far right hand side. On some games these are dotted lines others they are solid. The most annoying instance is on Asteroids. the top and bottom quarters of the screen are fine, but the center portion is shifted to the right making the purple line sit closer to the actual game play area. Now this may all be unimportant once I connect it to a CRT, since it won't be a widescreen format and will hopefully cut off these lines anyway. The main thing is though, they weren't there before I replaced the caps. At one point, I thought the 820 ohm resistor on the TIA between pin 6 and 9 might have something to do with it, so I removed the resistor. The lines were still there, so I reinstalled the resistor and put the shields back on the board. Maybe I'll have to live with the purple and green lines as long as I'm using an HDTV...

 

I used the supplied tiny wires when I installed my AV mod and it's been working fine, until today. While I had everything apart I noticed that there was some type of interference in my video. The best way I can describe it is a wave of "tint" coming from the right side of the screen. I noticed it did this if I got the Joystick or even just my hand close to the board. and if you touch the positive video wire from the mod board to the video rca jack, you could make the wave "dance". My question is, should I replace that wire with something thicker, possibly shielded?

It's not an issue when it's all closed up in the case, but if you shake it enough to jiggle that wire inside, it will do the wave thing.

 

My last question (hopefully)..

The two polystyrene capacitors (for the audio), I hadn't intended to replace them, but I want advice, just in case I should. The audio works on every game, but the volume varies wildly from game to game. Some games you barely hear, others you almost have to turn all the way down to keep from going deaf. Is this something that those caps can correct or is that just the nature of some games?

 

I would post photos, but getting to my camera and then USING it is a lot of work, so I was hoping that someone here could maybe shed some light on this without needing photos. If it turns out the photos are going to help, me and possibly other people, then I'll bite the bullet and dig out my camera.

 

I'm really tempted to buy another 2600 with a newer board and seeing if it works any better than this one, but I've already got the 7800, which seems to be working perfectly, so I'm not doing anything to it until something in it dies, forcing me to reopen and repair it.

​Sorry this post is so long, Thank You to anyone who reads it all the way through and can offer some advice.

Edited June 9, 2017 by RamrodHare

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I've used the console5 refurb kits many times. I would have to check for those lines you mentioned on the side of the screen. I can tell you that I've never noticed them. But then again, the 2600s I refurbed with the kits, I tested them on an actual CRT I still have from the mid 90s. So I can at least confirm, that you wouldn't see those on a CRT since they are in fact in the overscan area of the signal.

 

And yes, I would replace those caps for the audio. You already replaced other stuff...why not them as well?

 

Now..about that wave in the video on the mod. You simple have a loose connection or cold solder connection either at the mod board or the other end of the wire. When you move it and it gets worse only confirms that. I'm not sure I'm totally sold on using shielded wire for AV mods. I've tried using coax, headphone cables, etc...and never could see a difference in the video quality. Since then, I've just been using wire I cut and pull loose from old hard drive ribbon cables in a lot of my work. Except for the power and ground in which case I use larger gauge wire for that.

 

Oh...right..the static protection. I actually did install this on a six switch I repaired for someone. But I didn't remove anything. I added the new cap and zener inline with the current components. The point of that is to prevent static off the joystick ports from zapping stuff inside. This was more of an issue when the systems were new since so many of us had fancy carpet in our living rooms and insisted on putting our atari, intellivision, and colecovision consoles on the carpet when playing.

[RamrodHare]

OK, here's an update of what I've done. I removed the zener/cap combo and replaced it with the original caps that I had removed. I may add the combo packs back in, when I get more info or photos on how to do it, if it turns out to be necessary for the 4 switchers.

I went ahead and changed out the two caps for the audio, but I haven't done much testing to see if it helped anything as far as the wildly different volume from game to game.

I did test it out on a CRT last night. Yes, the lines are in the overscan area, so on a CRT you never see them.

I didn't change the AV mod wires, since I wasn't sure it would help.

Before closing it up again, I decided to tune the colors. I used the Test Cart rom on my Harmony. I was able to get it to look OK, but no matter what the yellow bar always looked bright orange. Any attempt to fix that, threw all the other colors way out and never got me to yellow.

 

My biggest issue now is that the colors don't line up, if that makes sense. I'll try to explain what I mean.

On say, seaquest (just as an example), it looks almost like it would be in 3D, you know, if you had 3D glasses on. There are the subs and sharks, but slightly to the right of them, is another image of them that overlaps the first (actually I guess it underlaps, if that's even a word.)

It's like this on all my games, real carts or Harmony.

If this has something to do with the TIA or one of the other chips, I can easily fix it, since mine are all socketed. I actually have a donor 2600 that I could desolder chips from to test that out. I may do that later today, if I don't find anything better to do.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

The 3D like condition you speak of...is what I commonly call Color Bleeding. And it is the reason why I so disliked my LHE modded 7800. It was really bad on the edges of the game screen and on the edges of graphics in the games. Commando was one of the worst to show that. Thankfully the UAV Rev D has resolved that issue! Yeah!

 

I still think you need to go through and verify the wiring and soldering on the mod board. Also you mentioned all of your chips are socketed? Does the color change if you press down on the TIA at all? Maybe a connection is actually loose through the socket to the TIA itself?

 

Also, and you didn't quite describe this issue, so I don't think it really applies. But I have seen color cycling occur before on an atari that wasn't related to the screen burn in protection. Such as colors or hues changing while I was playing the game. Seen it happen on two H6ers that I own. In both cases, it ended up being bad TIAs themselves.

 

When you do the color adjustment, you should always do it using a CRT. Even then, how you have your CRT adjusted will still cause differences in the color overall. So no TV is the same. Also once adjusted as you are happy using a CRT, you will still likely notice that the color bars still won't quite match on an LCD. Just...how it is. As such I've been adjusting the color of my 2600s and 7800s that come to me for modding and repair using my little 8" sony PVM. However, that only allows me to adjust color via s-video or composite. If I'm only doing a repair, and not an AV mod; Then I adjust them using a larger JVC crt from the mid-90s set to factory defaults on the menu options.

[RamrodHare]

I need to look into the UAV board. I posted in that topic a while back and never got a reply back, so I gave up on it. If it fixes the color bleeding, then I really need to look into it again. I have a 7800 with a standard AV mod and there's no color bleeding on it.. (or if there is, it's so minor that I don't notice it even on the 47 inch HDTV.)

 

I did recheck all my solder points and reflowed anything that even looked a LITTLE bit off, but that didn't really improve anything.

I hadn't even thought about the socket being the culprit of any issues. I'll try removing the TIA and cleaning the contacts and reinstall it a few times and see if that makes any difference. I'll probably go ahead and buy a TIA chip to have on hand or I'll pull the good one I have on the donor board.

 

I don't think my colors change much as the 2600 warms up. No matter what my yellow test bar is always orange. On River Raid, The streets and stuff at the bottom of the starting screen are always too dark of a gray, nothing I do improves that. Also on River Raid, the F-U-E-L is always off. I can't get the white in it to look white. Could swapping the TIA fix this?

 

I did my color adjustments using a CRT late last night and haven't reconnected the system to an HDTV yet, but if I can get the colors right on one of my good CRTs, then I'll be fine. I don't really care if it's not great on all my TVs, if it's good on the one I'll be playing on most of the time.

 

BTW, Crossbow, Thank You for helping me out here. I really appreciate your input.

Edited June 9, 2017 by RamrodHare

[+DrVenkman]

Jess ("Crossbow") did a post in the 7800 on using a UAV on that machine - most of that video, and the comments that follow - are applicable to using a UAV or any video mod on old systems with modern TVs. Basically what it comes down to is that using this stuff on newer TVs is always a compromise. Sometimes it works out better than others but it depends on the quality of components used in the mod, and more importantly, how the new TV handles an obsolete video signal. Price of the TV doesn't matter as much as you think - some do well, some do terribly.

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/266065-uav-ultimate-atari-video-atari-7800/

[RamrodHare]

UPDATE!!!

 

After doing a lot of yelling and throwing things because I couldn't get a nice picture on my CRT, I switched to the HDTV in my bedroom. Guess what??? Everything looks perfect. No bleeding, the yellow looks yellow, it's all good. Of course there's still the stuff going on outside of the actual game screen, but I don't care about that. I'm just happy the picture quality is good now. I also tested my 7800 on my CRT and of course, it looks horrible too! So, I'm guessing my little CRT has just outlived it's usefulness. I still have my huge floor model Magnavox CRT and I haven't even tried it yet, so I have no clue what the results will be on it. I'm not dying for a light gun right this minute, so I'm fine with using the HDTV in the bedroom to play Atari on.

 

I did notice after warm up, both the 2600 and the 7800 show a shift in color, but I only notice it on the test screens, not on actual games.

 

So, for now, it seems all my problems are solved.