slapdash Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Thomas: Bridgestone still owns the copyrights, whether or not the CD has sold/will sell out. I know, but how was the deal about allowing to make the CD? Was the number of copies limited? Does anybody still have the right to make more CDs? There was a royalty agreement, so if any more CDs are made, there would have to be a royalty payment to go with it, and likely that would have to be renegotiated at this point. All rights remain with Bridgestone. The guy appears to be totally incommunicado. Well, if one of us would stop (unlikely! ) with this hobby completely (and feeling backstabbed like Randy probalby still does), we probably wouldn't be very interested in those kind of deals anymore too. Randy has not stopped selling the CD. I just reconfirmed that with him yesterday. He also says that he's up to date on orders, so anyone who hasn't gotten their CD should pass their name and payment method to me and I'll check with him to confirm if/when the order(s) were received and processed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xredmenacex Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Looks like I spoke too soon. I got my CD today along with some goodies like copies of Gunfight and Space Treat!!!! Let the record show that Randy is a stand up guy and Slapdash was very helpful to me as well. I haven't really had time to play with my new CD and games yet but I think it's safe to say that if you own a Supercharger you gotta order one of these. Best five bucks I ever spent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Hi there! Looks like I spoke too soon. I got my CD today along with some goodies like copies of Gunfight and Space Treat!!!! Uhm... you are saying you just bought copies of Gunfight and Space Treat from Hozer?!? Greetings, Manuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanJr Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 uh-oh.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rasty Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Hi! Looks like I spoke too soon. I got my CD today along with some goodies like copies of Gunfight and Space Treat!!!! One question: have you purchased the carts you mention, or were they thrown in for free by Hozer? Thanks! Rasty.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xredmenacex Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 One question: have you purchased the carts you mention, or were they thrown in for free by Hozer? They were thrown in for free apparently. I was glad to recieve these great games, but I hope you two as the creators of these games aren't getting screwed over or something. I was unware of Hozer Video Games until yesterday really. I had just sent Randy 5 dollars based on an earlier post in this forum. It seemed ridiculously generous but I don't know what the full story is. Perhaps he thought I had ordered these games and it was a mistake? I'm sorry now for any trouble my post may have caused.~Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanJr Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 They were thrown in for free apparently. I was glad to recieve these great games, but I hope you two as the creators of these games aren't getting screwed over or something. Double and TRIPLE UH-OH gulp... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snider-man Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 No "gulps" needed Stan and everyone else calm down. If RAndy tossed Gunfight and Space Treat in FOR FREE, then he didn't make a dime off the homebrewer's works and - in fact - took a hit because of the time/labor/supplies invested that he didn't recoup. My guess is that he still has carts made up from "back in the day" and - knowing he can't sell them - is giving them away with orders. Rather than immediately assuming the worst, how's about cutting the guy a little slack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 No "gulps" needed Stan and everyone else calm down. If RAndy tossed Gunfight and Space Treat in FOR FREE, then he didn't make a dime off the homebrewer's works and - in fact - took a hit because of the time/labor/supplies invested that he didn't recoup. My guess is that he still has carts made up from "back in the day" and - knowing he can't sell them - is giving them away with orders. As long as he is not producing them anymore and not giving away large amounts (which would hurt Manuel's and Fabrizio's sales) it's IMO just acceptable. How about everybody who got a free copy from Randy should pay the $5 royalties to the homebrew authors (unless he buys an "official" copy of course )? Sounds fair to me. Rather than immediately assuming the worst, how's about cutting the guy a little slack? Well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 No "gulps" needed Stan and everyone else calm down. If RAndy tossed Gunfight and Space Treat in FOR FREE, then he didn't make a dime off the homebrewer's works and - in fact - took a hit because of the time/labor/supplies invested that he didn't recoup. My guess is that he still has carts made up from "back in the day" and - knowing he can't sell them - is giving them away with orders. Rather than immediately assuming the worst, how's about cutting the guy a little slack? Your guess may be correct, but that doesn't make it right. If Randy is not paying the homebrew authors royalties for the games he is distributing, then he should not be distributing them in cartridge form, simple as that. It doesn't matter whether he's giving them away for free, or if they are leftover stock that he had built up in advance. There is no way of knowing how many cartridges Randy is giving away in such fashion, and that certainly isn't fair to the homebrew authors who were led to believe that Randy would stop distributing their games. And it's obvious that Manuel and Fabrizio were not aware this has been taking place. ..Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 Hi there! Hm... well, if Randy is just throwing out the stuff he has still lying around, everything is Ok for me. On the first reading I just wasn't sure wether he was still producing and selling them, so I asked. You see, if Randy would still produce and sell Gunfight now, more than half a year after he officially quit doing that exactly, that maybe would indeed be something to "gulp" and "uh-oh"... Hope you enjoy playing your free copy of Gunfight, xredmenacex! And a for Randy for being so generous! :wink: Greetings, Manuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 Hi there! There is no way of knowing how many cartridges Randy is giving away in such fashion, and that certainly isn't fair to the homebrew authors who were led to believe that Randy would stop distributing their games. And it's obvious that Manuel and Fabrizio were not aware this has been taking place. That is true. I'm assuming that these remaining stock free giveaway cartridges are a number less than ~10 copies per game. Giving away significantly larger numbers of them would certainly be unfair. But then I don't know. I never heard of something like that happening before, so I hope it was only very few copies that went that way. Greetings, Manuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 That is true. I'm assuming that these remaining stock free giveaway cartridges are a number less than ~10 copies per game. Giving away significantly larger numbers of them would certainly be unfair. If Randy wanted to do the right thing, he would have contacted the game authors and told them that he had remaining stock of their games and asked permission to give them away. Then no one would have been caught by surprise when someone comes along and says, "Randy gave me free copies of Gunfight and Space Treat!" And this would have given the authors an opportunity to tell Randy they would prefer he not do this, if that was their wish, but Randy never gave them that choice. ..Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 Hi there! If Randy wanted to do the right thing, he would have contacted the game authors and told them that he had remaining stock of their games and asked permission to give them away. He better should've done that, yes. Greetings, Manuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 And this would have given the authors an opportunity to tell Randy they would prefer he not do this, if that was their wish, but Randy never gave them that choice. I wonder if Gunfight and Space Treat are the only giveaway homebrews. When I quitted with Randy I asked for his remaining stock of Thrust and Jammed and IIRC it was very low and Randy "told" me not to market them anymore, which was ok for me then. So if people would have got free copies of my homebrews from Randy I would start to worry. But I don't think I have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanJr Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 I'm all for benefit of the doubt, Snider-man, old pal, but this sounded shady from the get-go. If he's just getting rid of old stock, then no problem (well mostly), if he'still in production then its a different story. Either way, Randy ought contact the people whose games he is distributing, just as a measure of courtesy. fair is fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 Either way, Randy ought contact the people whose games he is distributing, just as a measure of courtesy. fair is fair. Well, I am quite sure Manuel and/or Fabrizio have already contacted Randy. So, before speculating too much, let's just wait until they report back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snider-man Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 Whatever. The guy was run out on a rail and is effectively out of business, so this whole conversation is moot as I see it. I'd rather he give away his remaining stock to folks who will appreciate the games and the gesture of kindness rather than just burying them in some unmarked New Mexico landfill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 I'd rather he give away his remaining stock to folks who will appreciate the games and the gesture of kindness rather than just burying them in some unmarked New Mexico landfill. It depends. How would you react if you (finally ) finish you homebrew after months (years? ) of work and then somebody starts producing large amounts of your carts and gives them away for free? I am quite sure, that's not happening now, but still the gifts are somehow harming the sales of the two. Therefore I suggested that everybody who gets a free copy should voluntarily send some royalties directly to the authors (or their distributor = AA). Just to be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 Whatever. The guy was run out on a rail and is effectively out of business, so this whole conversation is moot as I see it. I'd rather he give away his remaining stock to folks who will appreciate the games and the gesture of kindness rather than just burying them in some unmarked New Mexico landfill. Please, Randy closed shop of his own accord and tried to martyr himself in the process. He is entirely responsible for what occurred and had many opportunities to turn the situation around. Randy has no right to "give away" the games he made to sell on behalf of the various homebrew authors, unless they explicitly granted him that right. While he surely is being "generous" to those who are receiving the carts, it's not very "generous" to the homebrew authors whose carts he's giving away. ..Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rasty Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 When I quitted with Randy I asked for his remaining stock of Thrust and Jammed and IIRC it was very low and Randy "told" me not to market them anymore, which was ok for me then. When Randy called himself out of the "business", I've never asked him not to sell my game anymore. Anyway I assumed he'd stop doing so, since he said he'd quit the business. Actually it would be perfectly ok with me if he continued selling it, but of course only as long as I'm aware of it! But this doesn't seem to be the case, and I'm happy for xredmenacex who got some free carts I agree anyway that I would have really appreciated having been contacted about how the remaining stock was going to be "unloaded". I knew there was some left (not much). If we want to go deeper in the analysis, I think Thomas is right in all he said, both form a moral and from an intellectual property management point of view. Anyway, again, if it's just a few carts he's unloading, I won't complain. There are still some gray areas, yes, but I'll live with it :wink: Regards! Rasty.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 There are still some gray areas, yes, but I'll live with it :wink: Yup, as long as is doesn't get too dark! And aren't we all somehow acting in a gray area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 Just a legal point here, if anybody needs reference - any _original_ homebrew created becomes the copywritten property of the author (whether you file it with the copyright office in D.C. or not) from the moment of it's creation. Selling a work for profit without the permission of the copyright holder is against the law. Selling a work for no profit w/o the permission is still against the law. Giving it away for free w/o the permission of the author is too. The precedent legally speaking is pretty clear - if you damage the value of someone else's copyright, you're liable for their losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xredmenacex Posted August 14, 2003 Share Posted August 14, 2003 I'm an innocent bystander here and I feel like Manuel and Fabrizio need to get in touch with Randy himself if they are concerned with the way he is conducting his business. (From the looks of things he is not 'out of the business'.) Even though I never asked for these games, I have no problem hooking them up with the royalty, if they want they can send me a personal message. I think that Randy is who they need to talk to though. As I mentioned before I had no knowledge of Hozer Video Games and I am ignorrant of Randy's history in the gaming community. This might be a one time event because it took him so long to send my CD, or it might have been a mistake and someone else ordered these games and I ended up with them instead. I don't really want to take sides here. I also don't want to see homebrew authors getting ripped off though and so I thought it might be important to let you know that I was also sent a catalog CD that lists both Gunfight and Space Treat as available for sale from Hozer. ($16 and $20 respectively) So really I think this needs to be worked out between the authors of the games and Randy if this is a concern.~Matt P.S. Both games are a lot of fun. Good work guys!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted August 14, 2003 Share Posted August 14, 2003 I'm an innocent bystander... Yes, definitely. As I mentioned before I had no knowledge of Hozer Video Games and I am ignorrant of Randy's history in the gaming community. If you check this very long and rather unpleasant thread (plus some research on r.g.v.c) you will at least know how it ended and why many people are so eagerly watching him. ...I thought it might be important to let you know that I was also sent a catalog CD that lists both Gunfight and Space Treat as available for sale from Hozer. ($16 and $20 respectively) WHAT?! You mean he is still selling them? Are there still any other homebrews (like Thrust, Jammed, SCSIcide...) or TV-format conversions in that catalog? P.S. Both games are a lot of fun. Good work guys!! Yup, those two a great. I hope you will have a look at other homebrews too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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