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ParanoidLittleMan
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ParanoidLittleMan River Patroller

ParanoidLittleMan

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OK, maybe I will be banned here because coming out with this (sad) things, but I will put this here:

http://forum.8bitchip.info/software-17/thorsten-otto-caught-in-lie/

Things are pretty much clear. I'm just shocked how deep some Atari people can go. And they do it so stupid, btw.

Sorry administrator, but I think that I deserve place to talk about it, after all my work and time spent, helping people, doing useful SW, over 1200 games adapted for hard disk and other things ...

And - if someone want discuss about that lie case, please do it at 8bitchip forum.

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ParanoidLittleMan River Patroller

ParanoidLittleMan

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Not really.

OK, I will make it clear here. Will describe whole thing without names.

There is person called A, who made improvements of TOS 1.04 and very similar TOS 1.62 . Note: not patches - much more and with much more effort.

Since TOS is coded in big part in C, in smaller part in ASM naturally would be to get those sources and perform wanted modifications. However, sources of TOS 1.xx are not available.

Plus person A is not good C coder. Person A disassembled GEMDOS part of TOS 1.04 about 10 years ago. Purpose was using it to help better game playing from hard disk.

That took lot of time and effort to make it properly and without errors.

Serious TOS improving started in Jan 2018. Base was of course old disasm of TOS 1.04 GEMDOS part. Person A performed over 1000 changes in pseudo source code, to say so - ASM listing, what is generated by Devpac disassembler and corrected lot of it by hand (at least 200 hours of work) - only for proper disasm. Doing improved FAT16 that way, so making mods and additions in ASM listing took 2 months of regular work time - so about 40 hours/week. Person A could not do it without Steem Debugger. After FAT16 person A did many other improvements, some were suggested and inspired on this forum.

 

When person A put thread in German Atari forum about his work, person B jumped in with insinuations which said that person A used his sources, uncredited.

Person A answered that it is not possible since person B published only C sources for TOS 2.06 and 3.06, so different TOS versions, different source format and language.

That was very clear part. And person A practically proved that person B says lies.

 

Then person B came out with another (stupid and unchecked too) insinuation - that person A made combination of TOS 1.04 and 2.06, so must have used sources of TOS 2.06 .

Person A explained that no need to have sources for 2.06 in any form to perform that 'fusion' . Person B shown that his knowledge about TOS is not so good as he thinks.

I will not go in more details, explanations here. Look:

http://forum.8bitchip.info/software-17/how-to-combine-gemdos-and-aesdesktop-parts-from-different-tos-versions/msg1815/#msg1815

Not entirely finished, I need to add some details how diverse sections of TOS are put in order, guide how to perform mixing with simple Hex editor - should be online in 1-2 hours.

Will just put here short part of improved TOS 1.04 asm listing, part of improved FAT16 :

  IFNE  imf16
* added for cluster count over 32768 :

	cmp.w	#$FE00,d0   *** 
	bcc.s	useMuls2
	mulu.w	$C(a4),d0   * was muls ! For cluster count over 32768
	bra.s	wlonrecn2
useMuls2		muls.w	$C(a4),d0
*	move.w	d0,$26(a5)  * 16-bit recno
wlonrecn2	move.l	d0,rn_wo(a5)   
   ENDC

   IFEQ  imf16
	muls.w	$C(a4),d0
	move.w	d0,$26(a5)
   ENDC

Whole TOS 1.04 disasm is about 1MB long, and is in 2 clearly separated parts: GEMDOS and AES/Desktop parts. Disassembling of AES was much easier than GEMDOS part.

Edited by ParanoidLittleMan
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ParanoidLittleMan River Patroller

ParanoidLittleMan

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I don't read German but I didn't see any examples of what code of his you used. Was that posted somewhere?

All what is there is: "daß ein Grossteil seiner Arbeit auf den Sourcen beruht die ich zusammen getrage habe"

Surely he talks about TOS 2.06/3.06 sources he put together. But let's translate it first for others: "big part of his work is based on sources I put together"

That's simply accusation that I used his work uncredited, that I'm thief. And he writes that without even taking care to look about what TOS versions I dealt, in what computer language.

Similar is later about combo of TOS 1,04 and 2.06 . No, I did not use his sources at all. Was no need for that. I actually disassembled TOS 2.06 too, and it differs pretty much from 1.04/1.62 - in FAT16 handling too. Purpose was to see can I use same changes there as in 1.04/1.62 - and answer is: no . So, doing same improvements in 2.06 as in 1.04 will wait, that will need really lot of time, while there is better solution - mentioned combo - so you have good Desktop of 2.06 and more compatible, already improved GEMDOS of 1.04/1.62.

Details here: http://atari.8bitchip.info/tosimpr.html

Edited by ParanoidLittleMan
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ParanoidLittleMan River Patroller

ParanoidLittleMan

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Sounds a bit like how you discovered how to switch RAM around miraculously just after I released the ULS source code.

 

However, I have no information on the above, so cannot comment.

Oh, what a surprise ! C.J. visited us. No my dear friend, that was not after you realized ULS sources. My first version did not use RAM switch. It used hard disk driver moved (my driver) or installed again (Hddriver and AHDI only) in high RAM. So, was no need to switch RAM when hard disk access was needed. My solution was original, and based on my knowledge about hard disk drivers.

Years later, actually in 2012 I started work on more compatible HAGA, what used RAM switch. Of course I did not use ULS sources, simply because I was sure that I can do it better because I'm better programmer. And on top of all it: ULS took whole concept from Amiga WHDL, so it was not your idea at all.

If you want to accuse me, to show me as thief, give some proof. With what you doing now you just embarassing yourself.

And you can have information about above if you take little effort and look around subject. But you are not here because truth and facts interesting you. You are here only because can not stand that something is better than you.

I would ask that some moderator close this thread. I asked at begin to discuss this at 8bitchip forum. I know that admin don't like this kind of discussion.

Edited by ParanoidLittleMan
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Gemintronic Quadrunner

+Gemintronic

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The Atari community sure likes its drama.

 

Which confuses me a lot. A TOS replacement already exists. We already have the MiST machines. Everything Atari IP free and built from the ground up by enthusiasts. With a little more cohesion I could see running a modern ST having more productive discussions right now.

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ParanoidLittleMan River Patroller

ParanoidLittleMan

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Which confuses me a lot. A TOS replacement already exists. We already have the MiST machines. Everything Atari IP free and built from the ground up by enthusiasts. With a little more cohesion I could see running a modern ST having more productive discussions right now.

TOS replacement already exists - sure, and we all know it. Actually there is more of such. What I did is not TOS replacement, it is TOS improving. Serious one. It's that I use rather old, single task TOS instead Magic or Mint, because I don't need multitasking on slow machine with low res. I improved hard disk related code in TOS. Made work without floppy drive more usable, efficient. This is year 2018 and work with floppies is PITA . You really should read my page about it before posting. Or maybe ask if something is not clear. I opened threads about it couple times here, with links.

http://atari.8bitchip.info/tosimpr.html

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ParanoidLittleMan River Patroller

ParanoidLittleMan

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So, was "TOS 2.06" source code from Atari and just published by "B", or did B create TOS 2.06? I know that doesn't address the heart of the issue, but if the source was just Atari's work then B had no real rights to it anywaysof

Of course person B did not create TOS 2.06. That was done by Atari and Digital Research in 1991 + previous years (as new TOS version is never complete new code) . Otto just put together complete C source code from diverse sources - I don't know exactly how it went. Made some corrections so it can be compiled with modern compilers - I guess. I never compiled it. And he accusing me recklessly for using his work - and yes he done some useful work. But as is explained, and everyone can see, I did not improve TOS 2.06 or 3.06. But 1.04 and 1.62 . Combo of them with AES/Desktop from 2.06 contains complete, 100% unchanged TOS 2.06 binary code. To use it you need only to perform copy/paste in hex editor.

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ParanoidLittleMan River Patroller

ParanoidLittleMan

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I need to explain something: I did not start this thread to spread bad blood. Everyone can make mistakes. So, if Otto is able and willing to think about it, to see the facts, and will admit that made mistake I'm OK with him. I even don't ask for apologize. All I want that people become better, to learn during and from life. And everyone can be better, Of course including myself. I learned a lot about 68000 programming, about TOS - and thought why let it go in waste when I will be too old and out of scene. That's why I went in TOS improving project, and why dedicated 9 months to it.

 

Finally, to C.J. : all above stays for you too, of course. You automatically consider me as culprit, without any checking of facts, which were clearly presented here. But I don't hate you. I feel sorry for you. As Xmas was mentioned and is closing, let be good christians and forgive all bad done and said to each other, and try to do things better. First step would be to read at least this thread carefully. And that stays for all who want to write here, or in any thread.

Edited by ParanoidLittleMan
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ParanoidLittleMan River Patroller

ParanoidLittleMan

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OK. I demand moderators to close this thread and delete off topic posts. Some of contain false accusations, and that's criminal act in my country, and I believe in many others.

If someone wants to accuse me for stealing code, not crediting his work properly, please be my guest, Just do it then right way - with valid proofs.

This what C.J. does is on level of what was regularly done in one big Eu country in 4th decade of 20-th Century.

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CyranoJ Quadrunner

+CyranoJ

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I have not accused you of anything.

 

It is perfectly reasonable for two people to tackle the same problem in exactly the same way.

 

I released some code. A while later sections of your code are byte for byte the same. Maybe you also had a brilliant idea, nobody will ever know, and I'm past caring.

 

Sincerely, Merry Christmas.

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CyranoJ Quadrunner

+CyranoJ

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Jesus, he even can not write word 'byte' properly. Are you on something ? Please, visit doctor ...

I will not reply here anymore until thread is cleaned.

 

 

I apologize for that, I was using a mobile phone. But you see, I went back and fixed that mistake, making things OK again.

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