Atari 8-Bit as a Legitimate Business Machine

[flashjazzcat]

The Last Word isn't tied to any particular font, so if you prefer something other than the default, load it right up. Mister Fish produced a very generous collection of carefully designed 80 column typefaces on the supplemental disk.

Edited December 24, 2018 by flashjazzcat

[Bill Loguidice]

I'm not sure CP/M was so much required, as you had to have alternative application software.

Once Lotus 1 2 3 came out in 1983, office suits quickly replaced separate apps like Visicalc and Wordstar.

Apple answered this with AppleWorks in 1984, but Atari said... have some games.

The IIe version of AppleWorks took advantage of the 128K IIe upgrade's RAM and 80 column support.

AppleWorks quickly ousted Lotus 1 2 3 as the most popular selling software package, and between different versions, the 1 millionth copy sold in 1988.

80 column hardware may have been needed, but so was 128K, and more importantly, the software to go with it.

 

 

Lotus 1-2-3 was just a spreadsheet, not an office suite. It displaced Visicalc, just like WordPerfect eventually displaced WordStar and others. It was the combination of Lotus 1-2-3, dBase, and WordPerfect, among many other options, that eventually really set the IBM PC and Compatible standard apart. Even though other platforms would receive ports, it was always best supported on PCs and Compatibles.

 

The bottom line is is that no 8-bit was going to keep up with the rapidly evolving and advancing PC platform, and, all of the advanced competing platforms, like Macintosh, ST, and Amiga, wouldn't be able to keep up with the eventual same advancements and outright volume thanks to that platform being "open." The Macintosh barely survived for a few different reasons, but arguably mostly because it lucked into having the most practical niche application of desktop publishing at the time, versus what was done best on the ST (pro audio) and Amiga (pro video).

[peteym5]

80 Column display processors were available at the same time the Atari 400/800 was released. I assumed Atari was anticipating that their computer could be modified to house a 80 column display by putting the CPU, Antic, and GTIA and a board that attaches to the main (mother) board. It would not be too hard to make a board that plugs into the same slot that has an 80 column display chip. I have never seen any plans to modify the Antic/GTIA chip set for higher resolutions. From what I understand, the designers of these chips left Atari corporation not long after the 400/800 was made. Atari would had needed new engineers to design and build new chips. They did not acquired any new display processor technology until the MARIA chip that someone else developed and Atari bought up. Then Tremial took over and made 68000 based computers wanting to push computers instead of game machines. What was he trying to do, sell the ST as a business machine without the necessary software for business?

 

The reason why people wanted 80 columns because that was standard number of fix width characters can be printed with main stream printers at the time. Also displaying more text on the screen allows people to see more information without needing to scroll.

 

As many stated, when people hear Atari, they automatically associate the company with video games. What else worked against Atari, along with Commodore, Sinclair, Apple, Tandy, and Texas Instruments was that IBM was already an established business computer firm, making main frames and terminals since the 1950s. It was no doubt that the IBM PC was just going to squash the micro-computer market for businesses, and eventually become the standard.

 

A business computer depends on the Hardware and Software available for it, how easy is it to use that software. What can be stored.

Edited December 24, 2018 by peteym5

[JamesD]

 

Lotus 1-2-3 was just a spreadsheet, not an office suite. It displaced Visicalc, just like WordPerfect eventually displaced WordStar and others. It was the combination of Lotus 1-2-3, dBase, and WordPerfect, among many other options, that eventually really set the IBM PC and Compatible standard apart. Even though other platforms would receive ports, it was always best supported on PCs and Compatibles.

 

The bottom line is is that no 8-bit was going to keep up with the rapidly evolving and advancing PC platform, and, all of the advanced competing platforms, like Macintosh, ST, and Amiga, wouldn't be able to keep up with the eventual same advancements and outright volume thanks to that platform being "open." The Macintosh barely survived for a few different reasons, but arguably mostly because it lucked into having the most practical niche application of desktop publishing at the time, versus what was done best on the ST (pro audio) and Amiga (pro video).

Yeah, your are right. Can't remember what the PC package we sold was. Microsoft Office didn't come out until the 90s right?

 

Starburst was the first so called office suite in the early 80s.

 

[Bill Loguidice]

Yeah, your are right. Can't remember what the PC package we sold was. Microsoft Office didn't come out until the 90s right?

 

Starburst was the first so called office suite in the early 80s.

 

 

There were several on most major platforms (even the 8-bits), but they were typically (and unsurprisingly given disk and memory limitations) compromised in some way versus their stand-alone counterparts, which I imagine hurt adoption (plus, I suspect that many businesses were focused more on single activities/action, e.g., person A really only needed a word processor or person B in accounting really only needed a spreadsheet, etc.). Outside of maybe AppleWorks, I can't think of too many that had decent market/mindshare on any platform prior to Office. It was an idea I think that needed a bit more computing power and just general time for most people to understand the value. I suppose it was hard enough getting people to understand the value of the single productivity applications.

[Bill Loguidice]

As many stated, when people hear Atari, they automatically associate the company with video games. What else worked against Atari, along with Commodore, Sinclair, Apple, Tandy, and Texas Instruments was that IBM was already an established business computer firm, making main frames and terminals since the 1950s. It was no doubt that the IBM PC was just going to squash the micro-computer market for businesses, and eventually become the standard.

 

It probably helped too that the IBM PC was a terrible game platform for its formative years and that even luxuries like color graphics were expensive add-ons to an already expensive setup. I suppose most of the other platforms started out as more general purpose machines and were targeted first and foremost to home markets, which was a natural for gaming and more casual usage befitting those who primarily bought it.

[Gunstar]

 

There were several on most major platforms (even the 8-bits), but they were typically (and unsurprisingly given disk and memory limitations) compromised in some way versus their stand-alone counterparts, which I imagine hurt adoption (plus, I suspect that many businesses were focused more on single activities/action, e.g., person A really only needed a word processor or person B in accounting really only needed a spreadsheet, etc.). Outside of maybe AppleWorks, I can't think of too many that had decent market/mindshare on any platform prior to Office. It was an idea I think that needed a bit more computing power and just general time for most people to understand the value. I suppose it was hard enough getting people to understand the value of the single productivity applications.

Yep, it was about series of apps which were sometimes sold as package deals, like Synapse's Syn-series Syncalc, Synfile, Syntrend, etc. I don't know if there was ever a Syn-"write"...I don't think so, but besides Atari productivity software, it was really the only other "line" of productivity software, otherwise it was just seperate individual apps, like Visicalc and Paperclip. Atari made a deal with Synapse on the series too, and it was going to be an official "suite" of software for the XL line, until Jack came in, refused to keep the deal, kept all the already sent inventory and sold it at a discount ruining Synapse...which Broderbund then stepped in to save.

 

My guess is if Atari had stayed in business as Atari Inc., it would have been a business package systems sold with the 1400XL line and Synapse productivity software. And Atariwriter thrown in...Of course without an 80-column solution starting with the 800, even something like the XEP80, it was probably a doomed strategy anyway, especially with the 16-bits on the horizon, including Atari's, at the time "Amiga" 1600XL line...

Edited December 24, 2018 by Gunstar

[zylon]

Some time ago, I helped clean out a defunct radio station and they had 65XE setups stored in a closet. So, that means they did use them at one time.

 

I kept one and it works, but use my XEGS instead.

Edited December 24, 2018 by zylon

[JamesD]

 

There were several on most major platforms (even the 8-bits), but they were typically (and unsurprisingly given disk and memory limitations) compromised in some way versus their stand-alone counterparts, which I imagine hurt adoption (plus, I suspect that many businesses were focused more on single activities/action, e.g., person A really only needed a word processor or person B in accounting really only needed a spreadsheet, etc.). Outside of maybe AppleWorks, I can't think of too many that had decent market/mindshare on any platform prior to Office. It was an idea I think that needed a bit more computing power and just general time for most people to understand the value. I suppose it was hard enough getting people to understand the value of the single productivity applications.

I remember Softlaw Corp sold VIP Studio or something like that as a package for the CoCo and maybe Commodore 64.

It had word processing, spell checking, spreadsheet, and database sold as a package with a front end to launch the different programs.

 

The real problem with the office suite concept and 8 bit machines, was there wasn't enough memory, disk storage space, or disk speed to pull off seamless integration in the early 80s.

 

[gilsaluki]

Some time ago, I helped clean out a defunct radio station and they had 65XE setups stored in a closet. So, that means they did use them at one time.

 

I kept one and it works, but use my XEGS instead.

Yes. The 8-bits were used by several companies that specialized in Teleprompter Services. The Atari graphics were made to order for such applications. I forget the company that used Ataris exclusively for teleprompters. They modified the 8-bits. I am certain it has been discussed here in the past. I remember pictures of the computer(s), but cannot remember where. Anyone remember the Teleprompter Specialists that used our beloveds?

[gilsaluki]

Now that I think of it, I remember reading about a model train museum that used 8-bits to control its layout. They wrote their own software to control the trains. Wish I had visited them--back in da day. Would have been rockin'.

[damosan]

I've been doing IT in one form or the other since 1990 - in those years I ran into one organization that used an Atari 800 and a stack of drives for inventory control (taking inventory, making orders, etc.). I suspect the owner had some sort of secret sauce coded on that thing.

[atarian1]

80 Column display processors were available at the same time the Atari 400/800 was released. I assumed Atari was anticipating that their computer could be modified to house a 80 column display by putting the CPU, Antic, and GTIA and a board that attaches to the main (mother) board. It would not be too hard to make a board that plugs into the same slot that has an 80 column display chip. I have never seen any plans to modify the Antic/GTIA chip set for higher resolutions. From what I understand, the designers of these chips left Atari corporation not long after the 400/800 was made. Atari would had needed new engineers to design and build new chips. They did not acquired any new display processor technology until the MARIA chip that someone else developed and Atari bought up. Then Tremial took over and made 68000 based computers wanting to push computers instead of game machines. What was he trying to do, sell the ST as a business machine without the necessary software for business?

It seemed like Atari was selling their 8-bit computers to be hooked up to TVs which were too fuzzy. The 80 column displays that I remember seeing for the 8-bits all recommended a dedicated monitor because of this (including the XEP80). That's probably why they didn't invest or push for an improved Antic/GTIA to natively support 80 columns.

 

I don't understand the ST comment. When ST software started coming out in late 1985, a good number of "business" (i.e. productivity) software came out to support the ST. I think Atari could have easily pushed the ST as a business machine even back when it was first introduced.

[Guest]

I don't understand the ST comment. When ST software started coming out in late 1985, a good number of "business" (i.e. productivity) software came out to support the ST. I think Atari could have easily pushed the ST as a business machine even back when it was first introduced.

 

Well, Apple and IBM were already the established business platforms. Atari (incl ST) had effectively (long ago) missed that particular boat.

 

In fairness to Atari, they did manage to grab a huge slice of the "musician market" - the midi functionality on such an inexpensive computer being a key selling point.

Edited December 25, 2018 by Guest

[+rockdoc2010]

Was it an Atari?

I landed in Kingman Arizona with a dead radiator. The Business i arrived at was a radiator shop. OLD SCHOOL!

I saw him look up my part and it was definitely an 8 bit program. It probably wasn't an Atari but the whole process took me back to the 8-bit.

His inventory was entirely driven by an 8-bit computer and the invoice was a digital representation of an 8-bit era printer.

 

He still runs his tight inventory and clean billing on an eight bit. he didn't look for the part online! he saw that he had it in stock!

 

I was blown away! and when your driving cross country.. he didn't rape me for cost. LABOR cost a bit but i made it on my way with no more overheating.

 

eight bit worked for me.

[high voltage]

I always liked reading in Antic magazine, Atari 8-bit Computer for business. For example, a restaurant used it for ordering, from what I remember.

Edited December 25, 2018 by high voltage

[peteym5]

It seemed like Atari was selling their 8-bit computers to be hooked up to TVs which were too fuzzy. The 80 column displays that I remember seeing for the 8-bits all recommended a dedicated monitor because of this (including the XEP80). That's probably why they didn't invest or push for an improved Antic/GTIA to natively support 80 columns.

 

I don't understand the ST comment. When ST software started coming out in late 1985, a good number of "business" (i.e. productivity) software came out to support the ST. I think Atari could have easily pushed the ST as a business machine even back when it was first introduced.

It took awhile for these business applications to become available for the ST and TT. Atari, Commodore, and Apple had a head start over Microsoft with a GUI desktop operating system. Atari could have pushed it more for their ST line. As a program developer, I look for a good program editor like PSPad Editor. Graphics programs like GIMP. I see they had assembler, C, and Basic available for the ST line. Something I have noticed, companies that made software like Lotus 123, dBASE, Word Perfect, Corel Draw, never made software for the Atari ST or Amiga. Many did not made it for the Apple MAC right away. Microsoft did not do much for ST or Amiga either.

 

Something Atari should not had done with the XE, ST, TT, and Falcon line was the parallelogram function (Help, Start, Select, Option, Reset for XE). Would had just kept them as regular keys. Maybe put the Atari 1200 F1-F4 keys back at the top. That does take away from people taking these computers as a serious business machine. I do not know why Atari never considered separate cursor keys for the 8-bit line. Having a good keyboard layout does help using the computer for business.

Edited December 25, 2018 by peteym5

[Gunstar]

Atari also had those terrible mushy keyboards on the ST's, mushy enough to turn off any potential corporate clients IMHO.

[JamesD]

By the time the ST, and Amiga came around, many companies had clearly decided to just focus on writing IBM and/or Apple software.

[JamesD]

Atari also had those terrible mushy keyboards on the ST's, mushy enough to turn off any potential corporate clients IMHO.

I'm pretty sure the anything that didn't look like an IBM turned off corporate clients.

The 520ST, 1040ST and A500 didn't look the part.

[peteym5]

I agree, it was a major problem by 1985, most companies were writing software for IBM PCs and compatibles. With the Macintosh, companies seem to be charging more money for software on that machine vs the PC. Then again, many people I knew got their hands on copies of software. This was before the internet and everyone starting making you register software or needed the product key to get technical support. Now there are a lot of freeware and open source software you can just download for Windows.

 

Didn't the Atari TT line have a case with detachabed keyboard? I know many of the Amiga models did. What gave the PC a major advantage was most of the IO circuitry and memory was separate circuit boards attached to the motherboard and not soldered. The proprietary concept of everything soldered to the motherboard was becoming obsolete real fast. Commodore and Amiga made their systems difficult to upgrade. Not sure why Atari went back to a single case the housed everything with keyboard for the Falcon. Then again, Atari was already dying by that time. PCs could upgrade video, sound, memory, CPU, and storage. Plus the ST was not all that great of a game platform. Jack Tremial tried to be too cheap with the XE and ST line and lacked innovation.

[+Stephen]

Yes. The 8-bits were used by several companies that specialized in Teleprompter Services. The Atari graphics were made to order for such applications. I forget the company that used Ataris exclusively for teleprompters. They modified the 8-bits. I am certain it has been discussed here in the past. I remember pictures of the computer(s), but cannot remember where. Anyone remember the Teleprompter Specialists that used our beloveds?

John Harris did lots of software - I believe InfoSoft 3000, 5000, 7000. There was also a tele-prompter using a GenLock board. I have one (may sell it soon), after dinner I'll dig it out and I'll reply to this post with the manufacturer name.

[JamesD]

...

Didn't the Atari TT line have a case with detachabed keyboard? I know many of the Amiga models did. What gave the PC a major advantage was most of the IO circuitry and memory was separate circuit boards attached to the motherboard and not soldered. The proprietary concept of everything soldered to the motherboard was becoming obsolete real fast. Commodore and Amiga made their systems difficult to upgrade. Not sure why Atari went back to a single case the housed everything with keyboard for the Falcon. Then again, Atari was already dying by that time. PCs could upgrade video, sound, memory, CPU, and storage. Plus the ST was not all that great of a game platform. Jack Tremial tried to be too cheap with the XE and ST line and lacked innovation.

The TT030 had sort of a pizzabox style case. It looked more the part, but it still lacked slots and it didn't come out until 1990.

The Amiga 2000 went as far as to offer PC slots and the Bridgeboard, but it really didn't do any better.even though it came out in 1987.

The Amiga 3000 had a little success as a Unix box, but I'm not sure it had any more success as a business system than the 2000.

I knew of people that used Amigas for business, but none were large corporations.

People also used the ST, but many of those used it as a cheaper Mac.

 

The XL line has been mentioned a few times here, but those are less business like than the 800 or the ST & Amiga.

The 800 at least looked like a typewriter and hid the cartridges inside.

For home use, the cart slot on the top made sense, but for a business, it just makes the machine look like a game machine.

The 1200XL made more sense appearance wise, but it had compatibility issues and the press ripped it for price.

If it had come with 128K like the 130XE... then maybe price wouldn't have been an issue.

Hardware 80 column support definitely would have set it apart and justified a higher price point.

That would have also set the Atari apart from the C64, and put it head on with the Apple IIe.

It probably wouldn't have mattered with corporate businesses, but small businesses that used the Apple II... maybe.

 

Atari made so many mistakes it's not even funny. But a hand full of right decisions might have made some difference.

I know I've blamed their management, and rightfully so, but what was engineering off doing?

128K, and 80 column text? Naaa... lets make a new sound chip.

 

Edited December 26, 2018 by JamesD

[pixelmischief]

In the end, Atari needed to either goo all-in on gaming consoles or all-in on a business that produced hardware for the Intel x86 architecture clones. Personally, I think they could have carried their dominance in the tightly integrated, low latency audio and midi interface market over to PCs and eaten Creative Labs' lunch before they even made it.

[atarian1]

It took awhile for these business applications to become available for the ST and TT. Atari, Commodore, and Apple had a head start over Microsoft with a GUI desktop operating system. Atari could have pushed it more for their ST line. As a program developer, I look for a good program editor like PSPad Editor. Graphics programs like GIMP. I see they had assembler, C, and Basic available for the ST line. Something I have noticed, companies that made software like Lotus 123, dBASE, Word Perfect, Corel Draw, never made software for the Atari ST or Amiga. Many did not made it for the Apple MAC right away. Microsoft did not do much for ST or Amiga either.

 

Something Atari should not had done with the XE, ST, TT, and Falcon line was the parallelogram function (Help, Start, Select, Option, Reset for XE). Would had just kept them as regular keys. Maybe put the Atari 1200 F1-F4 keys back at the top. That does take away from people taking these computers as a serious business machine. I do not know why Atari never considered separate cursor keys for the 8-bit line. Having a good keyboard layout does help using the computer for business.

That's not what I remember. There were a good number of business applications out shortly after the ST came out. Graphics? Easy Draw, DEGAS. Program Editor? Can't remember off the top of my head, but one could easily use a word processor like ST Writer or 1st Word. I remember using the text editor in the Flash telecomm program. There were also "clones" which had the look and feel and included most functions of popular PC programs such as VIP Professional (Lotus 1-2-3 clone, can read/write 1-2-3 spreadsheets too), DB Master One (a dBase clone). Corel Draw didn't come out until 1989. WordPerfect did come out with an ST and an Amiga version later in 1988. Microsoft Write (cut down version of Word) was eventually released for the ST later...1987-ish...can't remember, but I guess we are talking about 1985-86 here.

 

I thought the parallelogram function keys were cool. It certainly made it stand apart from the boring beige box computers, but unfortunately, boring beige boxes were exactly what businesses wanted. The function keys eventually went rectangular in the TT and Mega/STE computers.