Tommy17 Posted June 29, 2003 Author Share Posted June 29, 2003 The initial responses were probably truthful...though I'd agree that $5000 is a pretty low figure. Even for Manuel. j/k@Manuel Just so you know, Thomas once offered himself to I.R.Betterprogrammer for a couple thousand IIRC Anyway, another BIG problem would be facing the cease-and-desist that would inevitably come from the marketing monster known as Kiss (who would certianly get wind of the project if it was posted on a public board such as this). What I was looking for was simply: 1) Can it be done ? 2) Where would you find a programmer ? 3) A ballpark figure. If it's $5000, fine. If it would be $15,000. Fine. I wanted a barometer to see if it was really possible to do it. I have to admit though that $5000 is allot more than I expected but now I know. I also did not know that programming the 2600 was difficult work. Again, now I know. As for the Kiss aspect... If I was going to invest (which is probably the wrong word right now) in having a game made, I would indeed seek permission from Kiss. I am still shocked that they never got in bed with Atari. It seems like it was the only stone not turned over by them. They have Kiss Kondems for Christ sake !!! As a Kiss Kollector, I've seen and purchased many items made that I know are not licensed. Some of it is good, some of it is crap. If worse came to worse, I would have the game made for myself and not sell it or promote it publicly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 That's all well and good, and I can understand your point, but what about people who are new to AA and honestly don't know ? Like myself. The messageboard software offers a search function. I don't know why so many newbies don't use it before asking the same questions over and over. How about a special newbie FAQ/forum where all the standard questions and answers are collected? At least anybody who becomes a new member should automatically get some hints (e.g. when and how to use the search function, where to post what kind of message etc.) Good idea : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 I know I'm going to go against the wishes of some prominent members of the board by saying this, but I agree. It's after the umpteenth million time that I see the "Why does Pac-Man suck so much?" thread in the 2600 forum in the last year that it occurs to me that SOME of these questions really do belong in the FAQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 Why are my paddles jittery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaXpress Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 Who smells a new thread on the way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitfall Harry Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 Yes, a newbie FAQ consolidating all the questions that are asked and answered over and over again would be a wonderful convenience to all us old-timers. It will never work. Newbies don't know where the FAQ is. The AA board is so damned cluttered with forums, and posts and guides and archives and stores, I myself have a hard time finding the Atari 2600 FAQ. Taking the time to write the Newbie FAQ will be wasted effort because, unless they've been around for awhile, newbies ain't gonna know the Newbie Faq exists or where to find it. And if they have been around for awhile... well, they aren't newbies anymore now are they? The tiresome, repetitious questions will keep on coming. That's just the nature of a public message board that welcomes new comers. Write that FAQ and you'll get all the newbies asking, "Where's the Newbie FAQ?" What are you gonna tell them then? "The location of the Newbie FAQ is answered in the Newbie FAQ. Go look it up." Newbies don't like to remain newbies. The quickest way for them to feel they belong to the community is to crank up their post counts. What would motivate a newbie to go digging for a FAQ when they can get fast answers AND post count numbers by asking their questions straight to the forum? Maybe the FAQ is out of date. Current members have current answers. When you consider how many members are here at AA and how, as a rule, most of them enjoy answering questions to help fellow videogame enthusiasts, it almost seems foolish to expect a newbie not to take advantage of the wealth of information that is resident here and rain their predictable newbie questions on us. That is, unless we all decide to assume an arrogant, elitist, know-it-all mentality and greet newbies with welcoming phrases like "go look it up" or "it's in the FAQ." If we take that attitude, maybe we won't get any more newbies. Then we could all bore ourselves by rehashing all our stale ideas. Or maybe we could use the time we save in not having to answer newbie questions to do something productive... like writing that damned Newbie FAQ. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 I have no current answers...other than if you are stuck in a current, learn to swim real fast. But I think that you're screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 Is E.T. any good ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 Hi there! Write that FAQ and you'll get all the newbies asking, "Where's the Newbie FAQ?" What are you gonna tell them then? "The location of the Newbie FAQ is answered in the Newbie FAQ. Go look it up." The FAQ could be just posted to the board with a sticky/announcement tag. Greetings, Manuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inky Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 I started an AA FAQ A While BAck... http://www.atariage.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13367 If you would like to add to it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 The FAQ could be just posted to the board with a sticky/announcement tag. And maybe a few words and a link to the FAQ attached to the new member welcome message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfnmadness Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 Sticky the FAQ Anyone know how much a loose ET, Combat and 27 telegames is worth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mos6507 Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 Which programmers need ideas? Why haven't we heard from them asking the rest of us for help? Again, which guys need ideas? Give us names. Go to the biglist archive and look up the current thread "Have Kernel: Need Game". We've had waves of programmers come and go on stellalist and one of the big reasons people stop writing (I think) is that they run out of ideas or they never got enough of a return on investment, so to speak. But they still have all the technical knowledge to write more games, if someone provided an incentive at the start of development. So who is actually waving money in their faces? No one. Just a lot of hot air being blown around. If this guy comes up with 15,000 to make a game then people will talk to him. If you want to argue that the guy is a joke because he doesn't have the money, fine. I was just arguing that the concept of commissioning a homebrew isn't such a terrible thing. In fact, isn't Bob Polaro writing a new game from scratch? He's doing it because he has business partners who are helping him monetize his work, isn't that right? You can't compare today's process to the old school way. 2600 games were almost invariably a solo project. If you're going to go retro by making games for the old system, why not do it the old way and act alone? And again, who is actually paying for it? For your information, in the old days the "one person one game" were works for hire. Otheriwse programmers like David Crane would be multi millionaires off of their ownship of things like Pitfall. Even pre-crash a lot of 2600 titles were written by part-time outside contractors with "dayjobs", not so different from today's homebrewers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Go to the biglist archive and look up the current thread "Have Kernel: Need Game". Hehe, not really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Video Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 What up Tommy 17. As for your idea for Kiss games, people have probably had similar Ideas befor, and Ideas are out there floating all over the place, even here. But for the other part of your posts, Yeah, I'm sure you can hire a programmer to program a game for you. The objects are motivation and price. If you get a serious negotiation started, and they think the Idea sucks, they probably won't do it. But hey, wave enough money around, and you can probably get them to do it even if they don't like the Idea. Hey, if you put up say $500,000,000, do you think you could get Nolan Bushnel to write your game Idea? Perhaps (not like he's broke or anything) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doppel Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 Anyone know how much a loose ET, Combat and 27 telegames is worth? Diddly-squat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doppel Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 Anyone know how much a loose ET, Combat and 27 telegames is worth? Diddly-squat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ehrbad Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 Hmm, well it sounds like the KISS idea is out. Well, I was thinking about this great new idea for making a Def Leppard game, what do you think, is that do-able? <.....running for cover behind the couch....> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xot Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 Hmm, well it sounds like the KISS idea is out. Well, I was thinking about this great new idea for making a Def Leppard game, what do you think, is that do-able? <.....running for cover behind the couch....> It would have to be compatible with the foot pedal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Tumber Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 $5000 is a bargain! Do the math, at minimum consider the legendary Pac-Man which was supposedly slapped together in, what, 2 weeks? $5000/80hrs is only $62.50 and hour. If the game takes 4 weeks, that's $31.25 an hour. Can you even hire someone to design a website for $30 an hour? (Sure the kid next door, but I mean a pro web design company) If the project takes much longer, you're going to quickly fall below minimum wage - Manuel's estimate of 2 months, 10-12 hour days (I'm assuming week-ends off) is 400 to 480 hours which is $10.42 to $12.50 an hour. Not quite flipping burgers but pretty close... I'll do it for $50.00 an hour. $50.00/hr is very reasonable, even in today's market, for a specialised IT professional. My estimate for a 4k game is 200 hours though the nature of the project is a little unlear and that could be WAY off: ie: How much game design is involved. Is Tommy going to provide a detailed spec or is it just "I want a KISS game" and I have to design the game too? It also depends on the scope and technical sophistication of the game. If something on the level of Artilery Duel is all you need you can easily cut the time in half. If you want something cutting edge for which new tricks or techniques are required or a larger game, it could climb exponentially. I'd need more information on design specs before making a concrete evaluation. The one absolutely non-negotiable deal-breaker catch is that if it's going to be a licenced game, like KISS, you absolutely have to actually have the licence. It's one thing to write a clone that sorta, kinda looks like the original and they could MAYBE make some trouble for you but the money involved is well below their radar so it's never going to happen. But for a contract like this involving an obvious paper trail with real money and using an actual trademark it absolutely has to be 100% squeaky, squeaky clean. Chris... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Tumber Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 If it's $5000, fine. If it would be $15,000. Fine. I wanted a barometer to see if it was really possible to do it. I have to admit though that $5000 is allot more than I expected but now I know. I also did not know that programming the 2600 was difficult work. Again, now I know. Maybe you should scale it back and just consider a graphics hack. I'm sure you could find someone to make you a graphics hack for a couple hundred bucks. Chris... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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