_The Doctor__ Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 Unless you have a couple of them lying around and someone spliced the wrong end on it. It's happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 9 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said: no it's not just epoxy, they are different. and in fact some were designed with more than one regulated choice, but the components are simply left out as the xl series didn't go through with using the other voltage. shouldn't be too hard to either find or recreate schematics, but that's for the industrious ones to tackle. I was hoping to restore the other side of the supply and and hack the jack on the XL's to restore both but decided it's a bad idea should anyone else use the power supplies and computer later in life, should simply have picked new din type or keyed them in some way. Maybe the PCB was originally designed for the 1400XL/1450XL which also had +12VDC/-5VDC. If so removing the components for the extra voltage circuits would allow it to be reused for the 600XL/800XL, eliminating the need to design a new PCB. I have a CO70099 power supply that also uses the same case as the Black Beauty. It is a 520ST power supply, it has a DIN7F plug with +5VDC/+12VDC/-12VDC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoestring Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 On 7/25/2019 at 10:09 AM, Nezgar said: Already mentioned, but I also agree keep the DIN cord. Soldering that cord's 2 wires to a replacement common 5V DC power supply (ie a USB charger) of at least 1.5-2.0A is a lot easier than soldering wires to a new DIN connector... The Sony PSP-100 charger is 5v and good for 2A. Just watch out for the knock offs on eBay. The only issue with these USB type chargers is that there is some switching noise. The spare PSP charger is a little bit noisy compared to the power supply I rebuilt. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezgar Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 5 hours ago, shoestring said: The only issue with these USB type chargers is that there is some switching noise. The spare PSP charger is a little bit noisy compared to the power supply I rebuilt. Looking for a higher amperage like 3+Amps may help filter out some of the switching noise, as they might have larger capacitors, as the computers draw will be drain them less between switching cycles... Its also good to attach the large guage DIN cable as close as possible to the new brick - dont just cut off the connector at the end of the new supplies wire and attach the long atari cable to it, or you may end up with as low as 4.3v at the Atari due to cable loss. Phones deal with this by adjusting their charge cuircits automatically, but the Atari just starts acting weird. Ie. Color tint off, and some upgrades or cartridges like SIDE2 stop working. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 I've got like five ingots lying around here now. It feels weird to just throw them away but I don't know what else to realistically do with them. I certainly don't need them at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+sixersfan105 Posted August 2, 2019 Author Share Posted August 2, 2019 I would like to add that I find it funny that B&C goes at great lengths to describe the pros/cons of each of the power supplies of the 8-bit line, including the mention that the Ingot is "not recommended for unattended operations" and that "if hum bars are seen on the screen, disconnect"...yet they still sell the Ingot for more than double the cost of "the mini" ($15 vs. $7), which does not carry the risk of frying your computer. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eegad Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 What's funny is that back in the day, my 800xl had the ingot and it was plugged in 24/7 for something like 7-8 years, and i never had a problem with it. 15+ years later when i got back into atari, i just happened to start using one of my other power supplies, the large brick black one with a couple of small vents on the edges. Only learned about ingot issues a couple years later. Guess i was lucky, but my ingot never had an issue. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjlazer Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 Honestly I wonder how common it is for the Ingot PS to fail? Or is it just a rampant 3 decade rumor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR> Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 It's not necessarily the frequency with which it happens. The failure mode of this particular design causes over-voltage which can destroy chips, rendering the computer dead. With the others, if they fail, replace the PS and you're back in business. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 Nope - mine failed, same as all others. It's not a matter of if, but a matter of when. Now - the internet rumour that you have to recap everything, that is 100% bullshit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 (edited) If it's an AMIGA, recap it. Almost anything else it's not needed... there was an eight or so year window of when the bad formula caps were used in any of the computers we know and care about... 1999-2007 is the prime capacitor plague window. It's unclear how many in smaller q's made it out before hand and how long till all the remaining crappy caps trickled out of a dodgy warehouse later. but that's the prime window where Electrolytic recap is needed... You don't have to replace every cap... just the ones in that window that are electrolytic... Edited September 27, 2019 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urchlay Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 Honestly I wonder how common it is for the Ingot PS to fail? Or is it just a rampant 3 decade rumor? The only failed Atari power supply I ever had, was an ingot... which was dead when I got it (in like 1988), and had failed in such a way that it was putting out -2 volts (like, 2 volts with backwards polarity from what it's supposed to have). So I'm one of the 3 decade rumor-mongers I guess... the good news was, the -2V didn't actually damage the 800XL it came with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+orpheuswaking Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 Iv'e had 3 separate ingots destroy 3 machines (I didn't know it was a thing until the third one went kablooey) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 11 hours ago, tjlazer said: Or is it just a rampant 3 decade rumor? Well, there’s no scientific statistics to back it up but enough people have had Ingots fail and damage or destroy machines, without a similar rash of complaints about other XL power supplies for me to accept it. Better safe than sorry. Interestingly, the most common vintage C64 PSU bricks have a similar failure mode and very high failure rate. The internal 9VAC part is typically fine but the 5VDC side of the brick fails hot and destroys computers. And it’s not specifically related to use or disuse - it’s purely age-related failures of the internal 5V regulator. The one I pulled out of storage destroyed a C64 Breadbin - took out the PLA, the SID, and two DRAM chips with it. So yeah, some vintage stuff lasts just fine (caps in Atari 8-bits, for instance). Others, not so much (XL Ingot power supplies). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 Ingot took out my first 65XE in 1989 or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 This all gets me thinking. I have two modern PS that output 5v 3a. I use these with my modded machines. I have also somehow aquired three of the big black bricks and two of the XE power supplies with the silver labels. The OEM power supplies output 5v 1.5a. These are of course good to use with my unmodified machines but should I be concerned about hooking them up to the modded ones? Also, the SIO2SD seems to draw a good bit of power itself; should I be using it primarily in conjunction with the higher amperage power supplies as well? It seems like I already own a heck of a lot of decent power supplies but maybe I actually need two more higher amp ones. Any thoughts on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 ingots took out a number of 800XL's in our users group (including my first 800XL) over the first few years back when the XL first start arriving with them... There was and immediate march to install crow bar circuits in line and/or to replace the the power supplies at first chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleton Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 On 7/24/2019 at 2:44 PM, sixersfan105 said: This thread is a lifesaver. The 1st 800XL I bought came with an ingot power supply (unknown to me at the time) and I've been using it without knowing it could fail catastrophically. I also have the power supply immediately to the right of the ingot power supply in the above pic. That one should be safe to use, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleton Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 (edited) Okay, removed the ingot PS and replaced it with the other PS (which I had never used until now). At turn on I got a loud hum from the TV speakers and a rolling horizontal bar. I guess that is the "hum bar" I read about in this thread. Hooked the ingot back up and the 800XL boots just fine, so the computer is okay. I'm not willing to take a chance on continuing to use the ingot PS though, so I've taken both power supplies and set them aside. Guess no 800XL fun until I can get a replacement PS. Glad I read this thread, thanks everyone! Edited September 27, 2019 by Colleton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 13 minutes ago, Colleton said: Guess no 800XL fun until I can get a replacement PS. I just got one of these. Works great. https://www.8bitclassics.com/product/advanced-atari-xl-xe-power-supply/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleton Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 8 minutes ago, SS said: I just got one of these. Works great. https://www.8bitclassics.com/product/advanced-atari-xl-xe-power-supply/ Looks good, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezgar Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Colleton said: Okay, removed the ingot PS and replaced it with the other PS (which I had never used until now). At turn on I got a loud hum from the TV speakers and a rolling horizontal bar. I guess that is the "hum bar" I read about in this thread. Yeah, that's not good... but it's good to be aware of what to look for now, other power supplies can of course fail too. Sounds like some of the large capacitors in that PSU aren't doing their "smoothing" job anymore. If you have a multimeter, it would be interesting to measure the output "ripple" if you put the meter in AC volts mode... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleton Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Nezgar said: Yeah, that's not good... but it's good to be aware of what to look for now, other power supplies can of course fail too. Sounds like some of the large capacitors in that PSU aren't doing their "smoothing" job anymore. If you have a multimeter, it would be interesting to measure the output "ripple" if you put the meter in AC volts mode... 5.08vdc .006vac "ripple" That's unloaded though. I would like to look at it on an oscilloscope, but I don't have one at home. Edited September 28, 2019 by Colleton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miker Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 On 7/25/2019 at 2:45 AM, DrVenkman said: Heh. Yep. Shame on me and good on you! My version went for the old fashioned traffic signal motif. Hehe, Actually I don't recall having any problem with marked one. This placed right-down burned my comp (QMEG, Happy Freezer clone and 128k ext-RAM to be more precise) some time ago. So I dumped it into trash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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