raster/c.p.u. Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 i'm reading Mapping, Atari Roots, De Re Atari and so forth in pieces as i need to know stuff but there doesn't appear to be any documentation on the emulator formats like XEX (in the same way the C64 Programmers Reference Guide doesn't cover D64 files). Maybe i should do a piece when i get a little more acquainted with the Atari if there isn't one already... Oh, my fault. I have had to say it immediately: XEX, EXE, COM, BIN - Atari executables can have virtually any extensions, and the description is among others here -> http://www2.asw.cz/~kubecj/afmtexe.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 i'll asked Fox who contributed to atari800win and asked him what he thinks about a accurate gfx emulation and this is what he wrote: "I'm busy now, but in a week||two comes 4.0 that emulates changing colors, GTIA modes etc. on the fly." so... we must wait and see... cheers, heaven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 i'll asked Fox who contributed to atari800win and asked him what he thinks about a accurate gfx emulation and this is what he wrote: "I'm busy now, but in a week||two comes 4.0 that emulates changing colors, GTIA modes etc. on the fly." so... we must wait and see... cheers, heaven If my ADMIRANDUS is shown correctly and the sound is as near as the original, the Emulation gains 90% ... this would be a great advantage and it would be easier to develop on the PC .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fröhn Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 Again I outlined some color-bugs.... you hardly see these bugs on a true PAL output. btw, i think the emulators for atari 800xl and that plus4 need a pal emulation like Vice has. it really brings the display much closer to what you actually see on a real pal device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Jefferson Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 i'm reading Mapping, Atari Roots, De Re Atari and so forth in pieces as i need to know stuff but there doesn't appear to be any documentation on the emulator formats like XEX (in the same way the C64 Programmers Reference Guide doesn't cover D64 files). Maybe i should do a piece when i get a little more acquainted with the Atari if there isn't one already... An XEX file is just a standard atari executable file, and like Raster mentioned these have all sorts of names: exe, com, bin, xex... I believe the XEX extension was created especially for the emulator so that you could double click on the XEX file and it would launch in the emulator, not try to run on your windows box. An ATR file is not a 8-bit atari native format, it is the equivalent of the d64 format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 @ TMR when can we see your 1st atari code? i can not wait to see it... hve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Well, i have a one parter (not the screenshot i posted, that's turning into a dentro) which has a nice 320 by 192 picture with a bit of colour forced into it, a scroll and a tune by another member of Cosine - that's not really what i'd call a release though, so when i get a few C64 commitments sorted in the next week i'm going to add at least one more "enhanced" picture and a little more presentation. Would you mind testing it on the real deal for me when it's closer to done? My own 800XL is 250 miles away... =-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 yes... sent it to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 Any news ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 Yeah, 'cos i was working with a thrashed Samsung 3Ne on my PC some glaringly obvious problems with using PMG overlays on a 320x192 pixture didn't show up until Heaven pointed out they were there and i swapped a spare monitor in... not sure what to do now. My main options are trying to improve the present code so the squares where the PMGs are aren't as obvious or scrapping it and doing something else. A few verdicts on how bad the overlays actually look'd be good folks, i don't know how lame they actually are 'cos the brightness on this monitor seems to be closer to the other end of the scale! =-) Actually, if there's any way to make the PMGs hide behind the playfield so they don't affect the colours of the on bits (the darker areas of the picture are on bits) that'd be even better...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Actually, if there's any way to make the PMGs hide behind the playfield so they don't affect the colours of the on bits (the darker areas of the picture are on bits) that'd be even better...? No, there's no way to 100% get rid of the dark shade. The Atari regards the 2 shades of the text to be basically the same priority level. Some people have used players to mask off around letters, but due to the difference in resolution, some fringe bits will be dark, and this only works in a small area. Looking at the picture again, this can probably be solved by moving the players on different scan lines to create the border shapes you need, and use the associated 2-bit missiles for filler so you don't have to do it every scan line. With enough PM sliding, you can outline the shapes accurately. It looks fantastic, though. Leave it to a 64 coder to do a good, colorful Atari pic! -Bry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 and the RMT music rocks... sorry TMR i have to say this... as bryde mentioned it seems not impossible... as on the edges you could have reposition the player per scanline and "wrap" them around the corners... but if they are honizontal stretched they could appear on the other side... so thats why missles could do the job? maybe our MCS specialist emkay has good & constructive suggestions? hve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 The missiles are already working together as a fifth player (two shaded PMGs for the seal, one for the purple jumper, two different shades of grey for the jacket and background for skin colour) so they're not really available for spot effects. i'll have to think about this a little, looks like a total rewrite may be on the cards to get it looking more tidy. First mental draft says a lot of what i want to do now is possible but i'll have a few rough edges and there's one bit of the screen where i'll run out of players... Hmm... needs some thought. Looks like i'll have to make it my second release on the Atari since the other (far less colourful) project Heaven has already seen is only waiting on music and me to draw it a character set now... =-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 I wanna hear the tune!!! Yeah, I posted a lengthy message about how the Atari generates video, and that all the darkest colors have no luminance signal generated at all, but only chroma. The TV will assign a minimal brightness to this, however, so you can never have color X on black in the 320 mode (although I've figured out a way to generate it, it would require a mod to the computer). If the lowest shade of each color was black, Atari couldn't claim 256 colors, anyway. Are you using DLI's right now, or are those stationary players? -Bry P.S. I still wanna hear the tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 TMR ... very nice Piccy. Are you using DLIs with WSYNC every scanline, or a KERNEL-like graphics routine? You are using the ATARI800WIN Emu? Well, I hope the V.4 will make Changes during the Scanline errorfree possible.. On the real ATARI it is possible to double all Players in a scanline... In MCS you have the possibility to use PMg in blocks and to filter the Resolution by the playfield-colors and have the time to change many colors in a scanline... In Hires there is no real background color so PMg will change both colors everytime... but this is not that bad... so you'll get another color for free ... So... In Hires it is better to use the "Kernel" to correct the Player-Positions in every scanline when needed and to double as many Players as possible... By using of only different brightnesses, it is possible to create more 3D-Like objects in hires with PM overlay. Hires with colors is only in a Tweak Resolution possible - by changing ANTIC MODES E and F every Scanline... Hires with "real" colors is only possible with interlace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Only to mention: RMT<>TMR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 ... very nice Piccy. Just to avoid confusion (the scroller credits correctly) i didn't draw the picture, only ported and added colour. =-) Are you using DLIs with WSYNC every scanline, or a KERNEL-like graphics routine? Waiting for scanlines, i'm pausing at the top and every line for the lower half. In Hires there is no real background color so PMg will change both colors everytime... but this is not that bad... so you'll get another color for free ... Right pain in the bum though... =-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 TMR With only using normal DLIs.... What about to rethink to make the Background of the f Mode black and try to paint the "skin" color by overlay? And to give the Man white gloves .) (And to use some DLIs for colorchanging) Then you may win one Player (the Missiles) to correct some edges.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 With only using normal DLIs.... What about to rethink to make the Background of the f Mode black and try to paint the "skin" color by overlay? And to give the Man white gloves .) (And to use some DLIs for colorchanging) Then you may win one Player (the Missiles) to correct some edges.... That's my general plan (using the term loosely =-) to make the background colour grey and only colour the skin with a couple of PMGs... in theory i should still be able to colour the hand too, but i'm not sure yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Okay, a slightly loaded question; how accurate is Atari800Win's palette compared to the real deal...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Okay, a slightly loaded question; how accurate is Atari800Win's palette compared to the real deal...? Pretty close, but things always look different on a video monitor vs. VGA. You just don't get that same intensity. -Bry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Okay, a slightly loaded question; how accurate is Atari800Win's palette compared to the real deal...? The palette fits to the XEs. You have to know that the Palette differs slightly between XL and XE (I'd like to nail the Tramiels on a wall for this ) One color Row on the XL is brown and on the XE it is more green and less red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Okay, a slightly loaded question; how accurate is Atari800Win's palette compared to the real deal...? Pretty close, but things always look different on a video monitor vs. VGA. You just don't get that same intensity. Okay, so if something appears right on 800Win it's a good bet that the real deal will be fairly close to perfect too right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Okay, a slightly loaded question; how accurate is Atari800Win's palette compared to the real deal...? Pretty close, but things always look different on a video monitor vs. VGA. You just don't get that same intensity. Okay, so if something appears right on 800Win it's a good bet that the real deal will be fairly close to perfect too right? I'd say yes. I run my stuff on a real XL to select colors, because sometimes certain shades look sharper next to each other than others. This can be important in a small area like a multi-color sprite. For the most part, though, rely on the emulator and you can always tweak later. If I had a PAL XL, I'd loan it to ya! Any chance we can hear a sample of the music? -Bry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Okay, a slightly loaded question; how accurate is Atari800Win's palette compared to the real deal...? The palette fits to the XEs. You have to know that the Palette differs slightly between XL and XE (I'd like to nail the Tramiels on a wall for this ) One color Row on the XL is brown and on the XE it is more green and less red. This might be a factory adjustment difference, or it might be the result of the fact that the XE has almost all the components stripped from the Chroma circuit. -Bry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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