256 colors Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 This my current setup: Atari 800XL 64k PAL REV D motherboard/basic REV unknown? Theirs also a toggle switch for OS (i have no idea how to identify them how do i do this please?) Atari 1050 drive stock as far as i know Atari stock XC12 Lotharek SIO2sd Ver 1.3 Handful of new blank cassettes(10) 5¼" floppy disks used 3 unknown blanks or size/3 unknown Amstrad blanks or size/2 IBM unknown blanks or size/ 1 3M DS,DD 360KB I don't know the quality the of the above disks of size or what's on them the cassettes are brand new SKY C90 FX'S I have no programming languages or books,magazines or Dos type software So i'm looking for advice on what to use basic/dos/books/magazines/ to read and other utility software i might need http://69.60.118.202/atari/atari-books.htm any advice were i start? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Payne Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 (edited) First off, learn the syntax from a book, which there are plenty. https://www.atariarchives.org/. Mapping the Atari will also help you when you start to look at BASIC listings but there are just so many books that can assist you that you're not going to run out of reading. Are you wanting to learn BASIC just to learn it OR do you want to learn a programming language on the Atari because I hear good things about Action! Edited September 23, 2019 by Justin Payne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
256 colors Posted September 23, 2019 Author Share Posted September 23, 2019 (edited) Think i will start with basic first with baby steps it's just which version too use? I have no idea how to create or format blank disks or any use with cassettes i'm starting from complete scratch I found out a little more information on my 800XL by do some peeking XL/XE OS Rev 2 Revision C Basic Is their similar methods for the 1050 and the XC12? Edited September 23, 2019 by 256 colors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preppie Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 I wish I could help but I never had access to any decent books when I was learning. I would type in programs from magazines and simply learn by reading them (much of BASIC is fairly easy to read), with frequent lookups in the Atari Basic Reference Manual https://archive.org/details/atari-basic-reference-manual 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Payne Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 12 hours ago, 256 colors said: Think i will start with basic first with baby steps it's just which version too use? I have no idea how to create or format blank disks or any use with cassettes i'm starting from complete scratch I found out a little more information on my 800XL by do some peeking XL/XE OS Rev 2 Revision C Basic Is their similar methods for the 1050 and the XC12? Reason I ask is that we all learned BASIC because that came with the computers and it was what was taught at more schools or what mode programs were listed in magazines. Action is much faster than BASIC but uses a familiar syntax. It's not something like Assembly Language which is what a lot of people did learn to make really fast programs. I'm sure someone can recommend a better book but the one I learned BASIC with the the one that game with my computer (https://www.atariarchives.org/basic/). I see there is this one for the XL line, like you have (https://www.atariarchives.org/basicxl/) but I'm pretty sure they are similar. When you get that down this is a pretty good book for Graphics (https://www.atariarchives.org/agagd/) I don't know how much you know about BASIC but just in case you don't know much, they aren't all alike. If you find a book with a BASIC listing in it and it doesn't say it's for the specific computer or BASIC (For example, Microsoft BASIC) don't expect it to work. I had books as a kid with BASIC listings but because they were written in other computer's BASIC, they wouldn't work without some tweaking to make it work with Atari BASIC. As for using your 1050 Driver, here is the manual (https://archive.org/details/Atari_1050_Disk_Drive_Owners_Guide_1982_Atari) but since you have a Lotharek SIO2sd Ver 1.3, you'll probably use that most of the time. As far as the two XC12, nice. Again, you'll probably not use those too much now a days but there is a mod to speed up their loading much quicker. I look at them more as something to finish the collection. If you want to use that, https://archive.org/details/Atari_XC12_Program_Recorder_Owners_Manual_1986_Atari As for the toggle switch, I have one of those in my 800xl and it's for a 3rd party chip that helped with compatability between old 400/800 software and the XL line of computers. There were several out there so I couldn't tell you what is without looking at it but it's possible the chip is labelled. Maybe just flipping the switch will bring up a menu that will tell you. Hopefully this is all useful info and I didn't misread your needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
256 colors Posted September 24, 2019 Author Share Posted September 24, 2019 (edited) Thank's for your help so far i appreciate it So far as toggle switch goes it's mystery to me it outputs to grey screen with no memo pad or ready prompt Even using a simple type in like 10 print"hello" 20 goto 10 run does nothing at all? When looking at different types of programming languages and other software i notice most of it for the american market NTSC systems is that software gonna make a difference on my PAL setup Also XL/XE OS Rev 2 is my current OS could i do with a better OS or is this okay for my 800XL PAL In addition too getting prepared for learning more i have Altirra 3.20 setup on my laptop exactly the same way the real 800XL hardware here so i can switch stuff between the two Looking at all the Atari books/manuals/PDFS is there a good reliable way of copying and pasting text from those into Altirra 3.20 and the real 800XL and hows it done? Edited September 24, 2019 by 256 colors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gozar Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 To get started, all you need is the computer hooked to a monitor. That will get you into Basic where you can start learning the commands and making it do things. Next up, you'll want to be able to save your creations. For that you'll need a disk operating system (DOS). Check out the disks, do any of them say some variation of DOS? You can use the SIO2SD at this stage and download a DOS to start, but that adds some complexity. A good DOS to start with is MyDOS (scroll down, you'll see a zip file). As for books, look at Your Atari Computer (XL/XE) edition. It covers getting started with your computer and also introduces you to Basic. Once you are familiar with programming, you can move on to other books/languages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preppie Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, 256 colors said: Looking at all the Atari books/manuals/PDFS is there a good reliable way of copying and pasting text from those into Altirra 3.20 and the real 800XL and hows it done? Copy the program from pdf using right-click then paste into altirra using right-click (ctrl-v won't work), press F1 to go into warp and it gets pasted faster. Edited September 24, 2019 by Preppie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
256 colors Posted September 24, 2019 Author Share Posted September 24, 2019 (edited) I'm having all sorts of problems copying and pasting anything from pdf into Altirra I have to copy from pdf to notepad text then copy and paste and hope and prey no double lines of same numbers or strange character fuckups Or sometimes half the listing only goes in from pdf to notepad text okay 100 I=PEEK(106)-8 110 POKE 54278,I 120 PMBAS=!*256 130 FOR Q=PMBAS+512 TO PMBAS+640 140 POKE Q,O 150 NEXT Q 160 X=180:Y=100 170 POKE 704,54:POKE 558,46:POKE 53277,3 180 POKE 53248,){ 180 FOR Q=O TO 8 200 READ P 210 POKE PMBAS+512+Y+Q,P 220 NEXT Q 230 DATA 12,12,8,63,72,136,20,34,65 240 POKE 53256,1 250 GOSUB 1000 260 GOSU8 i100 270 FOR Q=l TO 80 280 B=USR(UP,PMBAS+511+Y):Y=Y-l 280 NEXT Q 300 FOR Q=l TO 120 310 X=X-l:POKE 53248,X 320 NEXT G 330 FOR Q=l TO 80 3408=USR(DOWN,PMBAS+511+Y):Y=Y+l 350 NEXT Q from notepad text into Altirra 100 I=PEEK(106)-8 110 POKE 54278,I 120 PMBAS=!*256 120 ERROR- PMBAS=!*256 130 FOR Q=PMBAS+512 TO PMBAS+640 140 POKE Q,O 150 NEXT Q 160 X=180:Y=100 170 POKE 704,54:POKE 558,46:POKE 53277 ,3 180 POKE 53248,) Edited September 24, 2019 by 256 colors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 (edited) The original listing as pasted into Notepad is full of syntax errors (e.g. 'PMBAS=!*256'). That's why the BASIC interpreter is rejecting it. You'll need to correct the syntax errors in Notepad before pasting into the emulator. I could guess at quite a few of the required corrections, but it would probably be better to start with a plain-text listing which contains no errors. Edited September 24, 2019 by flashjazzcat typo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
256 colors Posted September 24, 2019 Author Share Posted September 24, 2019 And if copy and paste direct from the pdf 100 I=PEEK(10G)-8 110 POKE 5427971 120 PM8AS=I*25G 130 FOR Q=PM8AS+512 TO PMBAS+G40 140 POKE G70 150 NDn Q 160 }{=100:V=70 170 POKE 704790:POKE 55974S:POKE 53277,3 180 POKE 53248.X 190 FOR G=:O TO 8 200 f-"?EAD P 210 POKE PM8AS+512+Y+G7P 220 NE}{T G 230 DATA 12712,8763,72,136,20,34,65 then into Altirra only half the listing and lots duplicate lines 100 I=PEEK(10G)-8 100 ERROR- I=PEEK(10G)-8 110 POKE 5427971 110 ERROR- POKE 5427971 120 PM8AS=I*25G 120 ERROR- PM8AS=I*25G 130 FOR Q=PM8AS+512 TO PMBAS+G40 140 POKE G70 140 ERROR- POKE G70 150 NDN Q 150 ERROR- NDN Q 160 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 Let me say the same thing in another way: the PDF listing contains syntax errors. The 'duplicate' lines are not duplicates. That's the interpreter telling you the previous line contained errors, and pointing out the location of the first error. Try copying and pasting something which doesn't contain errors. Just Google some Atari BASIC code and paste it direct from the HTML. The PDF you are using is full of errors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gozar Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 23 minutes ago, 256 colors said: And if copy and paste direct from the pdf 100 I=PEEK(10G)-8 110 POKE 5427971 120 PM8AS=I*25G 130 FOR Q=PM8AS+512 TO PMBAS+G40 140 POKE G70 150 NDn Q 160 }{=100:V=70 170 POKE 704790:POKE 55974S:POKE 53277,3 180 POKE 53248.X 190 FOR G=:O TO 8 200 f-"?EAD P 210 POKE PM8AS+512+Y+G7P 220 NE}{T G 230 DATA 12712,8763,72,136,20,34,65 What @flashjazzcat said. The only line above that is valid in Atari Basic is 230, and that's probably not correct. I would recommend to people that they type the code, not just copy and paste. Working up muscle memory on typing basic will go a long, long way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
256 colors Posted September 24, 2019 Author Share Posted September 24, 2019 (edited) Gawd i was hoping the age of rage quitting after endless line of codes only to have one typo fuck everything up were over Why can't it just be easy? Edited September 24, 2019 by 256 colors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibstov Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 13 minutes ago, 256 colors said: Gawd i was hoping the age of rage quitting after endless line of codes only to have one typo fuck everything up were over Why can't it just be easy? The listing you are using looks like it went through an OCR (optical character reader), that didn't do very good job. Hence all the errors. For example: 160 }{=100:V=70 And this: 120 PM8AS=I*25G 130 FOR Q=PM8AS+512 TO PMBAS+G40 Which should probably be: 120 PMBAS=I*256 130 FOR Q=PMBAS+512 TO PMBAS+G40 <--maybe 640 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
256 colors Posted September 24, 2019 Author Share Posted September 24, 2019 So it's down to a bad reader that doesn't have option to read as plain text? Are there better alternatives to adobe that can read as plain text? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preppie Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 It looks like the original PDF is wrong, there's nothing you can do about that. It's the fault of whoever made the pdf copy, they didn't proof read it. The only thing you can do is find better pdf's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibstov Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 24 minutes ago, 256 colors said: So it's down to a bad reader that doesn't have option to read as plain text? Are there better alternatives to adobe that can read as plain text? Here is my attempt at fixing all the errors: 100 I=PEEK(106)-8 110 POKE 54279,1 120 PMBAS=I*256 130 FOR Q=PMBAS+512 TO PMBAS+640 140 POKE Q,0 150 NEXT Q 160 X=100:Y=70 170 POKE 704,90:POKE 559,46:POKE 53277,3 180 POKE 53248,X 190 FOR G=0 TO 8 200 READ P 210 POKE PMBAS+512+Y+G,P 220 NEXT G 230 DATA 12,12,8,63,72,136,20,34,65 Major caveats: 170 is probably wrong...I think it is POKE 559 but I assume 4S is 46? 230 I assumed most of the 7s are bad commas It still isn't right but I think it is closer and it actually runs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
256 colors Posted September 24, 2019 Author Share Posted September 24, 2019 Most of the pdfs came from here http://69.60.118.202/atari/atari-books.htm and atarimania Each pdf has the same result so far in Altirra but i don't believe all the pdf can be that bad theirs something wrong somewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preppie Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 just tried it, and get same results. The PDFs are correct but they're not the highest quality so it looks like the windows copy/paste is having trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 (edited) The other thing you are going to run into is that OCR knows nothing of ATASCII characters, nor does the standard windoze notepad.... it's going to make a mixed salad out of them. What's needed is an Atascii aware dot matrix tuned OCR package... Edited September 24, 2019 by _The Doctor__ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preppie Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 I tried zooming in so the pdf text was very large and that gave better results, you'll probably still get a couple of errors though. A lot of those programs in old books were done with dot-matrix, so it's always going to be a bit dodgy trying to copy&paste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
256 colors Posted September 24, 2019 Author Share Posted September 24, 2019 (edited) I didn't think it was the pdfs were at fault just method of transferring the information into Altirra is hard not that it's a fault too Theirs gotta be a way around this somehow we can't go back to the dark ages of typing every single line not in year 2019 Edited September 24, 2019 by 256 colors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 5 minutes ago, 256 colors said: method of transferring the information into Altirra is hard It's hard if the material in the paste buffer already has errors. I don't think things could get much easier than actually pasting the entire listing straight into the emulator, although an even easier way - if you have no interest in actually typing in BASIC code - is to find disk images containing the software of interest and just run it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
256 colors Posted September 24, 2019 Author Share Posted September 24, 2019 Whilst i accept their is gonna be a degree of some real typing into a emulator or real machine I really do not want to type endless amounts of lines like back in day when magazines,books and listings and typos that was bad enough back then Lost count of the amount time the Atari came close getting smashed 1000 bits just out of pure anger frustration for one stupid typo mistake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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